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Pick is in, #4 Clelin Ferrell DE Clemson


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10 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Geunther’s so good he benched both Conley and Worley to start the season last year.

Allen non fitting the system is a misnomer. He could easily play right end. How exactly does Key fit the defense but Allen does not? 

And look what I can do too: Allen is a Way better prospect than Ferrell in a vacuum. And in our system, Allen would still be better than Ferrell.

At the end of the day the Raiders liked Ferrell more then Allen. I doubt they thought Allen didn’t “fit the scheme.”

Yeah he did because they werent buying into the culture and didn't know the system. Systems over stars.

You are acting like we passed on Von Miller or Khalil Mack. Josh Allen is not even on that level. Allen is good not great.

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10 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Geunther’s so good he benched both Conley and Worley to start the season last year.

Allen non fitting the system is a misnomer. He could easily play right end. How exactly does Key fit the defense but Allen does not? 

And look what I can do too: Allen is a Way better prospect than Ferrell in a vacuum. And in our system, Allen would still be better than Ferrell.

At the end of the day the Raiders liked Ferrell more then Allen. I doubt they thought Allen didn’t “fit the scheme.”

But you would be wrong about Allen being better then Ferrell. Tell me how many times I have been wrong this draft season? I'll do you a favor. 0 is the answer.

PG said it himself without using Allen's name. Ferrell was picked because he is a better scheme fit then Allen.

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5 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

But you would be wrong about Allen being better then Ferrell. Tell me how many times I have been wrong this draft season? I'll do you a favor. 0 is the answer.

PG said it himself without using Allen's name. Ferrell was picked because he is a better scheme fit then Allen.

I agree with you.  I never wanted Allen.  He's a great athlete that was just too fast for college OTs to jam.  He got about 90% of his sacks by simply getting around the OT before they could set the edge.  The same wont happen at the NFL level, where OTs no longer wear knee braces.  I'm glad we got Ferrell.  Never wanted Oliver either.  If I honestly had to go with any other top 10 pick, it would've been Hockenson.

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21 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

Yeah he did because they werent buying into the culture and didn't know the system. Systems over stars.

You are acting like we passed on Von Miller or Khalil Mack. Josh Allen is not even on that level. Allen is good not great.

No system is that good. The Raiders paid for Guenther's inability to evaluate talent on his own roster--the defense was at its worse at the beginning of the year. And I'm just quoting you when you say: "Josh Allen is a pure ELITE 3-4 OLB. He is excellent in coverage. Is quick. Has an explosive first step."

Also Lance Zierline from NFL.com (his #3 overall prospect): "Elite size, speed and explosiveness with frame to get even stronger"

Also Daniel Jeremiah from NFL.com (also his #3 overall prospect): "Allen is a tall, long edge player with tremendous agility, versatility and production."

From beloved PFF (#5 overall prospect): "Allen had far and away the highest pass-rushing grade of any college edge defender this past season at 94.3."

And more importantly, me, the only opinion I care about on this site.

 
 
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17 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

But you would be wrong about Allen being better then Ferrell. Tell me how many times I have been wrong this draft season? I'll do you a favor. 0 is the answer.

PG said it himself without using Allen's name. Ferrell was picked because he is a better scheme fit then Allen.

Oh let me try: You would be wrong about Ferrell being better than Allen. Tell me how many times I have been wrong this draft season? I'll do you a favor. 0 is the answer.

And even if you are to interpret Guenther's quote as being about Allen not being a scheme fit, how does that make it any better if he picks a worse player? To me, it doesn't matter why the staff picked Ferrell over Allen because I believe they passed on a great prospect for a good prospect, irrespective of scheme.

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@Rich7sena you were the kid that insisted the round peg would fit in the square hole.

I don't listen to talking heads. Because I know how the media works. Agents fuel everything. Agents have an agenda. I don't listen to people who have agendas.

You don't think agents pay the prominent talking heads to talk about their clients to hopefully increase their draft stock and therefore make them more money? 

We are lucky to have Mayock and Gruden running this franchise. They got my #4, #11, #21 and #29 best prospects in this draft.

Edited by OG_C2X
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If Ferrell can come in and lead, motivate, drive others to be better, it will enhance his value. Just because that isn't easily quantifiable or verifiable doesn't mean you can overlook that it can be a big impact. Gruden and Mayock put a lot of stock in that, which is either innovative or foolish...and not a lot separate the two options. I trust it, and I think it only adds to the "floor" of this pick. The days of me getting wrapped up in potential are over, since it is mostly unrealized potential when all is said and done. So I support Mayock, Gruden, the choice at 4, the focus on defense, and the culture shift heading into Vegas...no pun but I'm all-in. They had a plan and stuck with it. Hats off to Mayock I think he's doing a hell of a job in year one.

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10 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

They got my #4, #11, #21 and #29 best prospects in this draft.

I mean...that's remarkable. Hats off to you, I saw you say this several times mid-draft but I didn't comment thru the draft. But you can be happy to ride or die with Mayock and the 2019 class. That's pretty cool that you were so aligned with our actual picks, you gotta be thrilled.

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4 hours ago, OG_C2X said:

But you would be wrong about Allen being better then Ferrell. Tell me how many times I have been wrong this draft season? I'll do you a favor. 0 is the answer.

PG said it himself without using Allen's name. Ferrell was picked because he is a better scheme fit then Allen.

You don’t think having Greedy Williams as the 8th best player in the draft was wrong?? He went #46.

By your logic we should be criticizing Mayock for not taking Williams at any of our later 1st round picks or in the 2nd round. 

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3 hours ago, Dessie said:

You don’t think having Greedy Williams as the 8th best player in the draft was wrong?? He went #46.

By your logic we should be criticizing Mayock for not taking Williams at any of our later 1st round picks or in the 2nd round. 

No i don't think it was wrong. If i said THIS IS THE RAIDERS BIG BOARD then I would have been wrong. I didnt factor the off the field factors would impact Mayocks decision so much. 

I still think Greedy is a slightly better player then Mullen but Mullen definitely has better character.

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1 minute ago, OG_C2X said:

No i don't think it was wrong. If i said THIS IS THE RAIDERS BIG BOARD then I would have been wrong. I didnt factor the off the field factors would impact Mayocks decision so much. 

I still think Greedy is a slightly better player then Mullen but Mullen definitely has better character.

You don’t think your rank of Williams at #8 was wrong despite him being taken at #46? If that was your big board and not your Raider board all the GMs disagreed with you not just Mayock.

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Just now, Dessie said:

You don’t think your rank of Williams at #8 was wrong despite him being taken at #46? If that was your big board and not your Raider board all the GMs disagreed with you not just Mayock.

Is it wrong? No if i said this is what the raiders are gunna do, and it didn't happen then i would have been wrong. But my list was a rankings of talent and fit for the raiders. I don't share the same obsession with character that Mayock does.

Greedy would ball out in oakland. Off the field stuff and character issues forced him to drop 

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2 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

Is it wrong? No if i said this is what the raiders are gunna do, and it didn't happen then i would have been wrong. But my list was a rankings of talent and fit for the raiders. I don't share the same obsession with character that Mayock does.

Greedy would ball out in oakland. Off the field stuff and character issues forced him to drop 

You seem to be ignoring the fact that virtually all the GMs passed on Williams not just Mayock. I’d say your ranking was way wrong. 

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12 minutes ago, Dessie said:

You seem to be ignoring the fact that virtually all the GMs passed on Williams not just Mayock. I’d say your ranking was way wrong. 

So if a year from now greedy and greedy is coming off a pro bowl year for the Browns would i be wrong. Or would I be right?

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13 minutes ago, Dessie said:

You seem to be ignoring the fact that virtually all the GMs passed on Williams not just Mayock. I’d say your ranking was way wrong. 

And my comment about me not being wrong wasn't really about draft picks. It was more about what we didn't do.

I told you guys despite what everyone was saying Gruden and Mayock have ZERO intention of moving on from Carr. I actually hear from my guys inside the building the the media is so far off based. Gruden and Carr are virtually inseparable. Carr is Gruden's guy. 

I told you guys. WR willnot be targeted anywhere need the top 100 picks. I was empathetic in saying we would not pick a WR til after 106. 

Ive said it repeatedly. Mayock and Gruden are working together the same way Belichick and every GM that has passed through New England. This draft was obvious of that. 

I don't think i am the worlds greatest evaluator (except QB thats my wheelhouse) especially for DBs. IMO its the hardest position to project into the pros. 

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