Pick is in, #4 Clelin Ferrell DE Clemson

[Chwf3rd25]

9 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

You can say we didn't have to take edge at 4 but there were only a handful of players to consider there. it's a little broad to say it's Ferrell vs every other player, if he was Mayocks  2nd best DE how many player realistically can you say he may have had ahead of him.

Oliver, Hockenson, Simmons, White, Bush, etc.  You're missing the broader point --> dont draft based on position rather than talent.  Thats exactly what we did last year and it bit us in the ***.  

[OG_C2X]

34 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

then don't go Edge - no need for use to be locked into Edge at 4.  The conversation shouldnt be Josh Allen vs Clelin Ferrell.

They got the number 4 guy on my big board at pick number 4. 1 and 2 were gone and Devin White, who was 3, I plays a lesser position therefore they went Ferrell. It wasn't that big of a reach IMO.

[BayRaider]

7 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Oliver, Hockenson, Simmons, White, Bush, etc.  You're missing the broader point --> dont draft based on position rather than talent.  Thats exactly what we did last year and it bit us in the ***.  

Oliver is very overrated, Ferrell is a much better player, TE at 4 nah, Simmons ACL at 4? No... 15 or later sure, Bush at 4 is lol worthy, But yes White was definitely an option. 

[Chwf3rd25]

9 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

They got the number 4 guy on my big board at pick number 4. 1 and 2 were gone and Devin White, who was 3, I plays a lesser position therefore they went Ferrell. It wasn't that big of a reach IMO.

Then you’re one of the very, very, very few to have Ferrell in his top 5 overall.

 

4 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Oliver is very overrated, Ferrell is a much better player, TE at 4 nah, Simmons ACL at 4? No... 15 or later sure, Bush at 4 is lol worthy, But yes White was definitely an option. 

Well I and 95% of others disagree with your assessments.  I don’t know anyone who had Ferrell in their top 5 overall prospects.

[Jerry]

I

5 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

They got the number 4 guy on my big board at pick number 4. 1 and 2 were gone and Devin White, who was 3, I plays a lesser position therefore they went Ferrell. It wasn't that big of a reach IMO.

I honestly didn't think either of the Devins were top 10 picks, I think they went super early because teams knew they were the only good LBs in the draft. The drop off after them is huge. The next LB off the board was Jahlani Tavai, who I've personally not seen projected as high as he went anywhere. Coney and Wilson were both rated highly by the majority. It was an extremely weak LB class overall. J. Allen doesn't fit the scheme, the only other player I wanted in the top 10 was Hockenson. Gary at 12 has bust written all over him IMO. Burns went 16. I think Ferrel fits the scheme better than Burns.

[OG_C2X]

3 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Then you’re one of the very, very, very few to have Ferrell in his top 5 overall.

Mayock did. So maybe the people you follow don't know anything. 

Where did you have access to the 32 teams boards?

You don't think agents work the media. Ferrell was very high on alot of teams boards. 

 

[Dessie]

12 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

They got the number 4 guy on my big board at pick number 4. 1 and 2 were gone and Devin White, who was 3, I plays a lesser position therefore they went Ferrell. It wasn't that big of a reach IMO.

To give some perspective what was your big board ? 

[BayRaider]

Just now, Chwf3rd25 said:

Then you’re one of the very, very, very few to have Ferrell in his top 5 overall.

 

Well I and 95% of others disagree with your assessments.  I don’t know anyone who had Ferrell in their top 5 overall prospects.

Have you watched Oliver or just buying into his media hype? He’s not that good as a pass rusher, not even sure where that media assessment came from. DJ, Draft Network, PFF, any scout, will tell you Oliver lacks in the pass rushing department and has a ton of development to do. He’s not even that good of a run defender, like a B-.

So who would you draft over Ferrell besides White? I assure you Ferrell is a much better player than Oliver, Allen, and Bush if you go watch all of his tape. The media isn’t high on Ferrel because he isn’t flashy. 

 

[BayRaider]

This was discussed on NBC Sports where Mayock would of had Ferrell on his Top 5 Rankings, and everyone in the media would of had Ferrell Top 5 because they all copy Mayock. He is by far the most well respected draft analyst. 

Teams probably had Ferrell Top 10. Media rankings are all terrible outside of Mike Mayock. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by BayRaider

[Mr Raider]

Most teams do draft for need though. Yeah you don't always draft the most pressing need, but they're needs. Do the Packers, Steelers, Chargers, Seahawks, etc target QBs early in drafts? You can look at every teams top 6ish needs in any draft and see that those are the areas the team focused on fixing the most. Sure you wont necessarily take the most pressing need all the time, but you typically dont take guys that are at your greatest areas of strength either. 

After thinking about the Ferrell pick more and more Josh Allen, Devin White, and Oliver are really the only guys I think you can make a claim are better prospects and a realistic target for us at 4. Some might say Gary, but I had him as a clearly inferior prospect to Ferrell, but some wont just because he has a ridiculous athletic profile. Fine, different discussion. Focusing on the prior three I think its entirely possible that the staff is high on Hurst and Hall to a lesser extent, you can say that neither of those guys are reason to pass up a blue chip prospect and thats fine, but perhaps they didnt see Oliver in that light? He isnt without questions in size, some minor injury concerns, and he wasnt super productive rushing the passer. Now that could be scheme, it could be talent around him, but its all a projection. Perhaps they didnt think taking Oliver was going to make this team remarkably better. You likely cant play him and Hurst together, Hall likely has to go if you take Oliver. 

White has an argument to be made, he has an elite athletic profile, very good productivity at a major school, but he also lacks instincts, hes new to the position and he plays a position that isnt regularly drafted in the top 4. The questions of positional value would have been brought up. 

Allen is one where most people will say its clear cut, Allen is the superior prospect, I dont necessarily subscribe to that but I know i am in the minority there. He checks almost all of the boxes, freak speed, good production, never been in any type of trouble, but there were too many times that I saw him running unblocked for a sack, there were times I saw him moved off the ball in run defense. In a 3-4 I would value him over Ferrell a great deal, in a 4-3 though I actually think hes a SLB that kicks down to DE in the nickel. And thats fine, you can make that work, we've done it with guys like Mack and Whibley to a much lesser extent. I just don't love Josh Allen the way most do. I had him behind Bosa and Sweat firmly. The thing I was most impressed with him and made him unique to me was his coverage ability for a man playing the edge as often as he does. But that brings memories of Barr and Manny Lawson types. 

I actually think if Sweats heart diagnosis was a mistake that he should have been a candidate for 4th. 

But it all goes to my point that nobody in this draft came withoit questions because nobody in any class does. Boards are subjective. Ferrell was a consensus top 5-10 pick after the national championship game, but hes not the type to shine in all of the things that take place leading up to the draft after the season ends. Hes not going to be the guy that looks shredded in shorts and a tee shirt, hes not the guy that goes out there and blows up the combine, but when you turn the tape on you consistently see this guy dominating the man across from him and getting to the QB. He's the guy thats going to make clutch plays and preform up to his absolute best when the games get more important. Theres something to be said for all of that. Does he have the most unique athletic profile? No. He's not the fastest, but I'll tell you, he has some of the most impressive power I've seen from someone on the edge in the past 4 or 5 years. He is consistently pushing his man backwards or shoving him from one side or the other, he shows refinement in his pass rushing that you rarely ever see from someone thats a 21 year old. He plays with a motor that always seems to be on. He plays smart. Has terrific discipline in staying home and not leaving pockets for the QB to escape to, he doesnt run straight up field leaving running lanes open, he doesnt often get fooled by play action or make poor decisions on zone reads, hes well coached, disciplined, seasoned, technically sound, and gives consistently good effort. 

Sometimes its like we assume you dont run the fastest in a straight line so that means you dont have a high ceiling, or that if you are already technically sound your ceiling is lower. I disagree with that. Ive seen for 15 years now a league full of guys that dont possess elite athleticism by NFL standards go on to dominate the sport. Jerry Rice was never a burner, he was a seasoned route runner at an early age, Richard Sherman was slow by a corners standard, Jared Allen wasn't going to blow you away in a workout without pads. There's more to it than just being an athlete. The game is complex. 

I say all of this to say that I can see why a guy like Ferrell could have reasonably  been in the top 4 or 5 of their big board. Mayock and Gruden might trust the tape, they might not value the workouts as highly as others, and that isnt even talking about character and leadership qualities that are clearly important to them in a new rebuild in their image which makes sense, and Ferrell has in spades. 

Now maybe they're wrong. Only time will tell. Maybe all his pros dont outweigh the cons that he isnt a superior, freak athlete, maybe he doesnt have the baseline requirement you have to have to be an elite player, but they're saying they saw this man dominate for years at a big time school, against great competition. They think his skills translate. Maybe their board being different than others would have been will be a mistake. But what excites me the most? THEY CLEARLY HAVE A PLAN. High character, leadership, productivity, loving football, hard workers, experience in big games and clutch situations, they want guys that they are confident can be contributors to a winner, even if its by a collection of them and not a couple generational talents propping it all up like a house of cards... And that can equal sustainability. But even outside of that a clear theme and plan would NOT be possible to see, we wouldn't have a clue what they're doing or what the goal is if we didn't have a front office that was united on that. And I think thats the bare minimum to a successful franchise, a front office from the GM down that wants the same things and has a plan on how they achieve those. Maybe they will all be wrong about what it takes to do that, but the plan is there, it feels like a team effort. And thats always been my biggest concern with Gruden. If they cacan keep this up im fine giving them a few years to reach that goal, and if Ferrell is a guy they think is a part of the steps needed and they had him higher than most on their board? Im good with it. What happens on the field will answer all of those questions. 

[raidr4life]

25 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Oliver, Hockenson, Simmons, White, Bush, etc.  You're missing the broader point --> dont draft based on position rather than talent.  Thats exactly what we did last year and it bit us in the ***.  

I know what you are saying, but again there were only a handful of alternatives. Hockenson, Simmons and Bush all questionable  at #4. that's why I named the guys that most people realistically upset about us passing on which is Allen, Oliver, or White and even Gary.

[Chwf3rd25]

9 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

Mayock did. So maybe the people you follow don't know anything. 

Where did you have access to the 32 teams boards?

You don't think agents work the media. Ferrell was very high on alot of teams boards. 

 

1. We know that Ferrell was Mayock’s #2 DE but we have no idea where he was overall.

2. I can watch the players myself and form my own opinions and I can also look at the boards of analysts that I respect.

[OG_C2X]

8 minutes ago, Dessie said:

To give some perspective what was your big board ? 

I looked for it quickly. I am on vacation but when i have time i will find and post the screenshot of my top 35. 

But my top 5 were. Bosa. Q. White. Ferrell. Oliver. 

I didn't have a single WR, OL, or QB ranked in my top 35. And Jacobs was my only RB. 

Ferrell was #4 (#2 DE)

Jacobs was #11 (#1 RB)

Abrams was #25 (#1 SS)

Mullen was #29 (#3 CB)

[Chwf3rd25]

2 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

I know what you are saying, but again there were only a handful of alternatives. Hockenson, Simmons and Bush all questionable  at #4. that's why I named the guys that most people realistically upset about us passing on which is Allen, Oliver, or White and even Gary.

You're forgetting White as well.  If I knew we were going Ferrell I would have much gone for a higher rated player at a lower value position.  Hell, we spend 2/3 1st round picks on a RB and a box SS - our actions don't show that we care much about positional value.

[Dessie]

1 minute ago, OG_C2X said:

I looked for it quickly. I am on vacation but when i have time i will find and post the screenshot of my top 35. 

But my top 5 were. Bosa. Q. White. Ferrell. Oliver. 

I didn't have a single WR, OL, or QB ranked in my top 35. And Jacobs was my only RB. 

Ferrell was #4 (#2 DE)

Jacobs was #11 (#1 RB)

Abrams was #25 (#1 SS)

Mullen was #29 (#3 CB)

What about corners? Any in the top 10 ?