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Pick is in, #4 Clelin Ferrell DE Clemson


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2 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

1. We know that Ferrell was Mayock’s #2 DE but we have no idea where he was overall.

2. I can watch the players myself and form my own opinions and I can also look at the boards of analysts that I respect.

1. I bet it was #3

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18 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Then you’re one of the very, very, very few to have Ferrell in his top 5 overall.

 

Well I and 95% of others disagree with your assessments.  I don’t know anyone who had Ferrell in their top 5 overall prospects.

Every body had Ferrell in their top 5 back in January.

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5 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

You're forgetting White as well.  If I knew we were going Ferrell I would have much gone for a higher rated player at a lower value position.  Hell, we spend 2/3 1st round picks on a RB and a box SS - our actions don't show that we care much about positional value.

I said White.

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2 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Every body had Ferrell in their top 5 back in January.

Yep, just about everyone. Ferrell was the guy in January/Early Feb. And we all look for “flashier” prospects due to draft season being so long. 

You can also look at mock drafts back in Sept-Jan during the NCAA season and Ferrell was #2 to Bosa every single time. 

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13 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Have you watched Oliver or just buying into his media hype? He’s not that good as a pass rusher, not even sure where that media assessment came from. DJ, Draft Network, PFF, any scout, will tell you Oliver lacks in the pass rushing department and has a ton of development to do. He’s not even that good of a run defender, like a B-.

So who would you draft over Ferrell besides White? I assure you Ferrell is a much better player than Oliver, Allen, and Bush if you go watch all of his tape. The media isn’t high on Ferrel because he isn’t flashy. 

 

Dude we can watch these players ourselves.  Here are my rankings if you're actually interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/bc3cj3/chwf3rds_final_offensive_positional_rankings/

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/bc8uie/chwf3rds_final_defensive_positional_rankings/

I'm mentioning other analysts just so the conversation doesnt devolve into just me defending my personal analysis and to show that there was/is a consensus amongst respected analysts.  

If you want to talk about Oliver I'll share my opinion.  He's a fantastic pass rusher but didnt have the sack production because he played out of position at Houston.  You watch his film and he's consistently disruptive snap after snap.  Furthermore, the upside is tremendous given that he played under less than ideal coaching at Houston, played out of position, and still hasn't really learned to use his hands.  He's completely sufficient as a run defender if you use him at his proper position - 3 tech.  He struggles anchoring against double teams because he's undersized but thankfully we dont need to ask him to play nose guard like Houston did.

People aren't high on Ferrell because he's a low ceiling player unlikely to ever be the main pass rusher for a team.  He's solid vs the run, has a decent get off, and good hand usage.  He can't corner at all and was not a dominant presence at Clemson.  He should be solid and he seems like an awesome person and leader but that's not the kind of player I want at #4 overall.

Who I would've drafted over Ferrell: Oliver, Allen, Sweat, Simmons, Hockenson, Burns, White, Bush, Tillery, Gary.

 

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5 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Dude we can watch these players ourselves.  Here are my rankings if you're actually interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/bc3cj3/chwf3rds_final_offensive_positional_rankings/

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/bc8uie/chwf3rds_final_defensive_positional_rankings/

I'm mentioning other analysts just so the conversation doesnt devolve into just me defending my personal analysis and to show that there was/is a consensus amongst respected analysts.  

If you want to talk about Oliver I'll share my opinion.  He's a fantastic pass rusher but didnt have the sack production because he played out of position at Houston.  You watch his film and he's consistently disruptive snap after snap.  Furthermore, the upside is tremendous given that he played under less than ideal coaching at Houston, played out of position, and still hasn't really learned to use his hands.  He's completely sufficient as a run defender if you use him at his proper position - 3 tech.  He struggles anchoring against double teams because he's undersized but thankfully we dont need to ask him to play nose guard like Houston did.

People aren't high on Ferrell because he's a low ceiling player unlikely to ever be the main pass rusher for a team.  He's solid vs the run, has a decent get off, and good hand usage.  He can't corner at all and was not a dominant presence at Clemson.  He should be solid and he seems like an awesome person and leader but that's not the kind of player I want at #4 overall.

Who I would've drafted over Ferrell: Oliver, Allen, Sweat, Simmons, Hockenson, Burns, White, Bush, Tillery, Gary.

 

Then I wouldn't want you drafting for this team. because pretty much everybody gave you  legit reasons why you don't draft  Sweat, Simmons, Bush, Gary, Burns, even Hockenson at #4. And they would have all been called reaches too.

Edited by raidr4life
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1 minute ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Dude we can watch these players ourselves.  Here are my rankings if you're actually interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/bc3cj3/chwf3rds_final_offensive_positional_rankings/

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/bc8uie/chwf3rds_final_defensive_positional_rankings/

I'm mentioning other analysts just so the conversation doesnt devolve into just me defending my personal analysis and to show that there was/is a consensus amongst respected analysts.  

If you want to talk about Oliver I'll share my opinion.  He's a fantastic pass rusher but didnt have the sack production because he played out of position at Houston.  You watch his film and he's consistently disruptive snap after snap.  Furthermore, the upside is tremendous given that he played under less than ideal coaching at Houston, played out of position, and still hasn't really learned to use his hands.  He's completely sufficient as a run defender if you use him at his proper position - 3 tech.  He struggles anchoring against double teams because he's undersized but thankfully we dont need to ask him to play nose guard like Houston did.

People aren't high on Ferrell because he's a low ceiling player unlikely to ever be the main pass rusher for a team.  He's solid vs the run, has a decent get off, and good hand usage.  He can't corner at all and was not a dominant presence at Clemson.  He should be solid and he seems like an awesome person and leader but that's not the kind of player I want at #4 overall.

Who I would've drafted over Ferrell: Oliver, Allen, Sweat, Simmons, Hockenson, Burns, White, Bush, Tillery, Gary.

 

Even when Oliver played 3T he still lacked as a pass rusher. He has tons of work to do still. He didn’t fall in rankings for no reason. Once again, TE at 4 is ridiculous. 

If you think Sweat, Tillery, and Gary are better prospects than Ferrell there is no point discussing this further. Those three are not on the same planet as Ferrell. 

White I have no issues with being taken over Ferrell. 

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Just now, raidr4life said:

Then I wouldn't want you drafting for this team. because pretty much everybody gave you  legit reasons why you don't draft  Sweat, Simmons, Bush, Gary, Burns, even Hockenson at #4. 

Yeah if he drafted for this team we are absolutely doomed. 

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12 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Every body had Ferrell in their top 5 back in January.

No they didn't - he was a big name that people knew because he went to Clemson.  Dane Brugler had him as Edge4 pre-combine and DJ had him #22 overall pre-combine.  Regardless, that shouldnt even matter.  People have the ability to properly weigh the value of athletic testing and disregarding athleticism for an Edge rusher is silly.

 

14 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

1. I bet it was #3

Why would you say that?

 

11 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

If I was forced to bet my life on it I’d say Mayocks board was Bosa, then QW, then Ferrell. 

Why would you say that?

 

10 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Yep, just about everyone. Ferrell was the guy in January/Early Feb. And we all look for “flashier” prospects due to draft season being so long. 

You can also look at mock drafts back in Sept-Jan during the NCAA season and Ferrell was #2 to Bosa every single time. 

see the first response to raider4life

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4 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Then I wouldn't want you drafting for this team. because pretty much everybody gave you  legit reasons why you don't draft  Sweat, Simmons, Bush, Gary, Burns, even Hockenson at #4. And they would have all been called reaches too.

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Yeah if he drafted for this team we are absolutely doomed. 

Whatever the Raiders do you guys are going to support, no point in arguing further. I bet that if I presented this draft in here 5 days ago as my mock draft the reaction would be incredibly negative.

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1 minute ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Whatever the Raiders do you guys are going to support, no point in arguing further. I bet that if I presented this draft in here 5 days ago as my mock draft the reaction would be incredibly negative.

That's BS because they done did plenty that i and others didn't support, And I also predicted they would take Ferrell and Jacobs so you would be wrong. My only issue is I had them trading back some for Ferrell.

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12 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Yeah if he drafted for this team we are absolutely doomed. 

Kind of funny I just went back to the Kolton Miller thread from last year and what do you know - you and I were arguing about that pick as well.

(For the record this pick isn't NEARLY as bad as the Kolton Miller pick but the underlying issue is the same --> picking position over player).

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12 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Whatever the Raiders do you guys are going to support, no point in arguing further. I bet that if I presented this draft in here 5 days ago as my mock draft the reaction would be incredibly negative.

Not at all, I ripped the Kolton pick apart last year until I emotionally couldn’t do it anymore although came around to it eventually. Ferrell is a way better player than you are giving him credit for. He’ll be an elite run defender and ten sack a year guy absolutely unmatched leadership and charisma from any player of any position in this class. 

- Sweat’s tape is highly inconsistent and always gets stuck on blocks. 

- Burns weight is a massive issue at the next level

- Ed Oliver is absolutely overrated. Even as a 3T his grade was not good and that comes from several sources. Plus I’ve watched about 80% of his snaps this year. First step is great, sure. Severely lacks at everything else. Oliver is a big time project. His potential is amazing, sure. I’m not drafting a project at Pick 4.

- Allen is one of the most overrated prospects in the draft in the past several. I actually think he can be very good, not great, but very good on a 3-4 team or 4-3 under hybrid scheme team like the Jags. But on the Raiders he’d suck. 

- Tillery and Devin Bush are not on the same planet as Ferrell. Hardly the same galaxy. 

Putting a Round 2 grade on Ferrell shows you just look for the flashy and exciting prospects over excellent football players. 

 

Edited by BayRaider
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