Sugashane's Not Even Close to What Pace Would Do Mock

[Sugashane]

 

 OK! So this has nothing to do with what Pace is going to do, so no reason pointing that out. This is a mock that is meant to fill the cupboards so to speak and to be separate from the other mocks where RBs are taken high, a single trade back, or standing pat with the picks. Plus I want to gauge where I think I could get these guys compared to where they actually go.

 

We are looking for people to have high ceilings and to take over for when some of the guys start to age or become cap casualties, not for simple depth or to fill a void. This is about being a winner for a long time, we already have the franchise QB, a HOF EDGE rusher, an All Pro worthy DL , CB and FS, a potential top 5 OL, a number one and potential number 1 to-be on the outside, and

numerous other guys who are massive impact players on defense. We cannot afford to pay them all, so we need to get the BPA as much as we can to replace the ones we lose.

 

I would make these trades, maybe even just a bit further down in the trades to secure the extra picks. Without a 1st or 2nd, there is SO much more time that can be spent on guys that will be up and down on other's boards, so Pace has a distinct advantage in the middle rounds as there are 40+ prospects that he has no chance of even sniffing.

 

Going to make 2 trade downs and trade a player out to gain another pick.

 

Trades-

Bears trade Danny Trevathan to NE for their 4th round, 29th pick (134 overall). We will give a conditional 6th in the 202 draft if he is injured for and misses 3 or more games.

Danny is a fine player but the Bears are going to try to keep the younger players and NE knows they are nearing the end of the Brady Era. They need an ILB among other spots, so they now can ensure they have a solid speedy ILB for the next 3-4 ears after extending him.

 

Bears trade their third round pick 3(23) to BAL for 3(38th) and 4(21st)

Bears slightly lose by points at 155 to 151

 

Bears trade their 4tho round pick 4(23) to BUF for 5(9) and 6(8)

Bears win this trade by points at 46 to 50.8

 

 Signings -

ILB Zach Brown - 3 years, $17 mil, $12 mil guaranteed

Linebacker Zach Brown turned into a tackling machine over the past three seasons. Brown secured a whopping 372 total tackles over the last three seasons (15 more than five-time first-team All-Pro Luke Kuechly).  He isn't younger than Danny but might come at a cheaper price. He is a guy who will be a top number 2 and is a fantastic compliment to Smith.

 

 

Draft

3(38th) EDGE Anthony Nelson - 6'7", 271 lbs

 

He is criminally underrated IMO. You rarely hear his name thrown around, even after his combine performance. Just on NFL.com Reuter has him going to BAL right where I picked him, Jermiah doesn’t list him in the top 100 prospects, Zierlein has him as a 3-4^th rounder, etc. He is a guy who can either be a standup rush OLB or can bulk up and become a 5T for us. He possesses  seriously heavy hands, a non-stop motor, and his measurable are fantastic. Take a look here.

 

https://twitter.com/CarasikS/status/1117857244262162432?s=20

 

Is he as good as Bosa? Hell no. But he is 6'7" with vines for arms and the frame to allow a solid 20 pounds to be added, with a ridiculous motor. You can plug him in with Lynch as a rotational OLB this year or start bulking him up to be the 5T.

 

Long term  Outlook - Leonard Floyd was damn good last year, and if this offseason means anything then he can potentially play himself into a massive contract even if his sack numbers are disappointing. I meanTrey Flowers just got 5 years $90 mil and he isn't a dominant passrusher, but a solid all around OLB like Floyd, Preston Smith got 4 years $52 mil and isn't better than Floyd IMO, Za'Darius Smith got 4 years $66 million and prior to last year he averaged like 3.5 sacks per year, Dee Ford got 5 years $87.5 million and before last year he was more down than up. EDGE guys get paid.. a lot. I'm not sure what his value will be but I am sure he can get overpaid in the open market. Especially of the 2020 FA class is weak at EDGE (no clue, I haven't looked). With Trubisky, Jackson, Whitehair looking at really large deals and guys like Robinson potentially needing to be re-signed to keep Tru's weapons loaded, Floyd may either have to be transition tagged and hope for another Fuller situation or he may walk and net the Bears a conditional 3rd. I'd love to see the negotiations go down Massie style but Floyd is looking for his 2nd contract, I doubt we can be so lucky. I am high on RRH as well, and Nelson and him both seem to be able to fill each the OLB and 5T roles. Talent and versatility is a wonderful combination to have.

 

 

4(21) - TE Josh Oliver 6'5", 250 lbs

 

The kid runs routes all over the field, he isn't just a guy to run drags, seams, and outs. To me he looks like he will be able to take over Burton's role in the offense. He is a plus athlete that seems to come down with tightly contested balls, something Burton had an issue with the second half of the season. Catches the ball with his hands and will go after the ball through contact. His play strength isn't great but he is still adjusting to the newer position but is a tough guy who will create mismatches in the pass game for you. He steps in and learns the system this year and will get reps as a flex-TE. The combo of Burton, Shaheen, and Oliver will be a nightmare for DBs to cover.

 

Long-term Outlook - Burton is due about $8.5 mil for each of the next 3 years. He might be a bit overpaid but played fairly well in the new offense. Burton though, started hot with 5 of hos 6 TDs coming in his first 8 games and about 2/3 of his yards. But his 2nd half he only scored 1 TD and never eclipsed 40 yards in a game afterwards. While his role is important, as we saw the coverage role to Cohen in the PHI with him out, he simply doesn't provide the production to warrant that level of pay for his full contract. At $8.5 mil per year you want more than a security blanket. Maybe he allows efficiency to go up, but I think with Oliver the ceiling could go higher than it would with Burton.

 

4(29) - OT/OG Bobby Evans 6'4" 312lbs

 

He isn't a great athlete but he is a guy with a damn powerful base and LONG arms. He can play swing OT or eventually be the heir to the throne for Long. He anchors as well as anyone in this draft and has experience on both side. I know he is shorter than a lot of people want on the outside but I am not worried about it in the slightest, he may well be the heir for Massie after he retires, kicking out and relinquishing the RG role.

 

Long-term Outlook - Weak links on the OL can kill an offense, he offers protection to a starter in 4 spots, leaving Whitehair and Daniels as the C. He can be the starter in time for 3 spots as well, and I am not sure he couldn't play C as well, but with the aforementioned two we have there is not a reason to force him to learn a new spot when we already have two great talents for the spot. He is a perfect scheme fit for a power scheme as well, he will dig people out.

 

 

 

5(9)- WR Jalen Hurd 6'5", 226 lbs

 

Hurd originally was a 5-star RB that went to Georgia, but eventually transferred and became a WR at Baylor. He isn't a polished route runner but the man gets YAC and will get aggressive on DBs. I love his grit when he has the ball in his hands, he has vision and can either attack to truck someone or still put a move and bounce out.Still raw as a route runner, he is a physical nightmare for DBs and with some work will be able to be a monster mismatch for Tru to be able to expose. His versatility also would be fun to see with Nagy, as he can be moved around from X, to Y, to HB. He could be someone that becomes a utility piece like Patterson is this year, but I can see him being a legitimate 1 or 2 someday.

 

Future Outlook - Pace traded up and took Miller last draft, and while he played a lot of slot this ear I think he will be far more than that. I hope to retain Robinson, move Miller to the Z, and to let Gabriel go if he doesn't produce more explosive plays this season. He is due $6.5 to 7 million, which isn't much in all honesty, but Robinson being extended put an immediate weight on the positional group. Add in Gabriel's use as more of a security blanket and inability to make explosive plays and there just isn't much reason to keep him on. The starting 3 WRs could be X-Robinson, Y- Hurd, and Z- Miller. You have Robinson who tracks the deep  ball very well, then have to deal with the RAC abilities of both Miller AND Hurd? That is a high level of physical gifts to have to line up against.

 

NFL compares him to Terrelle Pryor, I think he has more of a role that will fit like Aaron Hernandez's when he was in NE.

 

5(24) CB/S Tim Harris  6'2 205 lbs

 

 

 

In 2017 Pace was able to select Eddie Jackson due to his durability concerns after having two major injuries, as he was a massively talented player who just was unfortunately stuck with a rash of bad luck. Harris is much of the same, having missed considerable time. But when he is on  the field he is a damn fine player. With his size he can play boundary CB or S, but athletic enough that he can play NB. He, like Jackson, is a 2nd round talent at least, but will drop quickly due to his injury woes. He is an aggressive tackler too, which leads to him being bale to fit in anywhere. Even with Skrine and Haha seeming entrenched Pagano was pointed out for using the Dime package more than about anyone else. I think Harris would be Toliver out for that extra spot.

 

Long-term Outlook - You never have enough young, dynamic players. The Bears struck gold with Jackson, and he will be at some point the highest paid safety in the league IMO. Amukamara is aging though, and Toliver cannot walk into the spot without competition. Skrine is here for two years but if he doesn't return to the form (or close to it would be plenty) then he is a band aid that covers up a weak position, and the passrush is what will have to prevent him from being exposed. Haha is only on a one year deal, and if he plays well then he will want a pay raise. Do we pony up for a guy that is going to be 27 with a history of sporadic play? Or will he buckle down and play his position? This offseason we will have to make a choice on our number 2 CB in Prince with his age and notable cap hit, Skrine who is a boom or bust player IMO, and Haha who will be a FA and may have a significant raise in his value. I like having Toliver and Harris be young options for any holes opened up there, and to be honest I am not sure Skrine can beat out Harris. I like the idea of a defensive backfield with Fuller - Toliver - Harris in front of Jackson and HHCD. That is a potentially dominant group.

 

6(8) HB/FB Alex Barnes 6'0", 226 lbs

 

I like Nall in his role as a power runner for short yardage situations, but the fact Nagy was calling Mizzel's number over him is concerning to me... because he sucks. Barnes has superior power to Nall, but he isn't a liability in the backfield either. He is a powerful runner with decent hands and was even used as a blocker for their option plays at times, so he is willing to put the team first and do the dirty work for yards. Barnes treats his body like a temple (makes sense with his Kinesiology degree) and balled out at the Combine. Not just the speed, power, expolsion tests, but he did well on the agility tests and positional drills. Everything was smooth for him. Physically from the Combine, among the RB group…#1 in bench press (34 reps, an all-time RB record), #1 in short-shuttle (4.10), #2 in three-cone (6.95), #2 in hand size (10”), #3 in vertical leap (38.5), #5 in broad jump (10’6”)…#3 among the 220+ pound RBs. He measured VERY closely to Nick Chubb last year, or David Johnson several years ago. His combination of size/speed/power/agility is rare. He put up good numbers with a terrible team and sub-Hackenburg level QB play.

 

I put him as the #3 RB and rotate him in, I think he also adds a very noce wrinkle for Nagy to use as a FB. One analyst already said he though Barnes would fit best as a FB, but if Nagy used him as a FB then he has a guy that can run, block, and catch there. Add 20 pounds to him and let him hammer LBs. M Burton is an ok blocker, but saying he is one-dimensional might still be too nice. Barnes is a weapon and can be used in real routes, not just the same 2 yards and wait routes Howard frequented.

 

Long-term Outlook - Barnes can be the power runner we want without being a liability in the backfield. If we really are going RBC, which I still don't believe will be as balanced as some here do, then he is a guy who won't tip the offense. He can be a true FB for us as well, and STILL keep the defense honest, unlike Burton. He has the size, power and effort to develop into a solid passblocker as well. While he isn't Cohen (not remotely even close) in the ability to line up as a WR, this would allow us to keep someone in for Tru to have protection while Cohen did what he does best - make plays. I'm not sure after a year or two he doesn't offer more upside and become the lead runner for the Bears either.

 

7(8) HB Bryce Love 5'9" 200 lbs

 

What? Two RBs? Yes. In the 7th you just take the guys who either fill a very specific role (K, P, special teams) or development players that have physical upside. Love has a stiff knee apparently, which will likely drop him further down. If healthy I am looking at a potential stud RB, his speed and explosion are top shelf elements to his game. He toughed out a serious ankle injury last year and it cost him, but if healed up that toughness does nothing but help the Bears. We know for a fact he won't give up with a minor injury and will always be a high effort player. With a rookie deal we get him for 4 years, so I am content to start him on PUP and potentially just IR him so the Bears medical staff can work with him for the year. He and Barnes can be a very dangerous pairing with Cohen long-term, and this means we have 4 guys who are really talented, multi-dimensional players for the offense at RB. Plus we can still use Barnes as a FB too, so there will be plenty of reps to share in a true RBC. Plus his role could expand to be depth behind Patterson and Cohen on special teams.

 

Long-term Outlook - At minimum you get 3 years of a guy who was being looked at as a 1st or 2nd round prospect after his monster season. He, Cohen, and Barnes may be the three-headed monster the Bears want for the next 5-8 years. To top that off, none were with premium picks either. Hard to look at it in any negative light.

 

7(24) John Fox - Former Bears HC - 6'2" 213 lbs

Ok ok ok. So his name is actually Jack Fox, but still. Pat has been up and down, and had a terrible kick in a critical moment last year. If he is to start he needs to at least beat someone out. Fox has done placekicking, punting, and kickoff duties, so he is versatile. I prefer to try him as a straight punter. @soulman pointed out Mannely said how these specialists get better when they get to focus on one movement, so I am not questioning it. For what it is worth he was noted to have the 2nd highest explosive kick rate in the NCAA last year and can kick from a variety of techniques.

 

I'll add the depth chart later. Dinner is done. lol

[Epyon]

I can dig it.... I don't particularly like Barnes though... basically at all.. I'll take Armstead over him all day for a later round guy (though whether or not he'd still be there in the 6th is a question...

 

I do like the B. Love pick, but projecting where his actual draft value is, is a big question mark.... I think if he falls all the way down to where you have him, then the news on his knee's medicals has to be very bad and/or he's going to open the season on PUP/IR... I think he's more likely a ~5th rounder on potential alone.

[Sugashane]

41 minutes ago, Epyon said:

I can dig it.... I don't particularly like Barnes though... basically at all.. I'll take Armstead over him all day for a later round guy (though whether or not he'd still be there in the 6th is a question...

 

I do like the B. Love pick, but projecting where his actual draft value is, is a big question mark.... I think if he falls all the way down to where you have him, then the news on his knee's medicals has to be very bad and/or he's going to open the season on PUP/IR... I think he's more likely a ~5th rounder on potential alone.

Thanks. I have the feeling Armstead goes in the 4th. I think he is a 5th round talent but Idk. I'm not high on him so I'm biased. With Barnes I think he offers depth at HB and a massive improvement in FB. At worst he is a slight upgrade from Mizzell and a FB that offers more than blocking IMO. 

 

You're spot on. I have zero clue where Love goes. I expected 4th with a smooth recovery but with the stiffness or whatever the medical staffs found would drop a round or two. Im hoping two. Lol

 

[soulman]

Are you crazy Shane.  Pace will never do this!!!!! 

Had to do it.....just HAD to do it. 

[yomyyo]

Thanks for your work on this. I enjoyed the outside-the-box thinking. I'm with you that I don't see any way that we can afford Floyd and hope that they draft a talented OLB in the 3rd. Love is loved here, and I'm curious to learn the round in which he's drafted. 

[Sugashane]

51 minutes ago, soulman said:

Are you crazy Shane.  Pace will never do this!!!!! 

Had to do it.....just HAD to do it. 

Damn. And I actually liked you too...

 

 

lol

 

28 minutes ago, yomyyo said:

Thanks for your work on this. I enjoyed the outside-the-box thinking. I'm with you that I don't see any way that we can afford Floyd and hope that they draft a talented OLB in the 3rd. Love is loved here, and I'm curious to learn the round in which he's drafted. 

No problem. I'd love to see Pace make a deal like he did with Massie, but I think with this being Floyd's first "big" contract he isn't going to pull punches. Massie has been with bad teams and knows his time is closing, so he wants a ring. I get both of their (at least from my perspective) motivations.

 

He just has a ton of potential and playmaking ability - IF he heals correctly - and it isn't going to cost the late 1st (in this class) or 2nd that it normally would be to get it. I can't say I'll be heartbroken if he goes elsewhere, but 3 ACLs and grinding though the injury to his ankle for the team definitely gave me a ton of respect for him. Bosa lost some of his luster to me when he bowed out on his team, just as Clowney did when he coasted his last collegiate year. Don't get me wrong, I get it from a business perspective and wouldn't turn my nose up at them of course, but still. I want guys who are absolute high effort, cold hearted relenteless dogs on the field, that is why David Pollack is still my favorite prospect of all time. He was a classy guy that put the team first, but he was never outworked on or off the field by his teammates and always wanted to be the one to metaphorically put his foot on your throat. I see that in Mack and Hicks right now.

[soulman]

Saw another proposal to trade Trevathan in the last day or two.  To be honest I don't know that we'd have many takers for a price that wouldn't be worth more for us than to keep him especially if we hope to challenge for a championship run.  Do we even has an ILB who can replace him? 

GB exposed Kwiatkoski's lack of range and coverage skills in last years opener and do we know if Iggy is ready to start?  And you're proposing to pay Brown whose also 29 more than twice the guaranteed money Trevathan got when we signed him and a deal that averages just about as much.  So where are we saving anything by downgrading? Trevathan is a very good fit for our defense and a vocal leader both on and off the field.

He's also got a $5.8 mil 2019 price tag and he's gonna be a 30 year old UFA next March so another team would have the same dilemma we'd have.  He's gonna need a new deal.  Trading a mid round pick and picking up nearly $6 mil in salary for a one year rental would be a tough sell for me unless I was desperate for him and also in competition for a championship which I do admit NOLA is as far as the competition part goes.. 

Once 3-4 ILBs like Danny whose game is based and range and coverage ability hit age 30 their value tends to become more questionable.  That's why Zach Brown is still unsigned.  I truly believe he'll be looking at getting far less money on one and two year deals in the future and it's not totally impossible to think we may be able to bring him back cheap if we're in a Super Bowl hunt.  Cheaper than you propose to pay Zach Brown at any rate.

Just playin' the Devil's Advocate here. 

[soulman]

Then as far as Floyd goes right now I truly believe Pace intends to extend is rookie deal before his 5th year option kicks in.  $13 mil or thereabouts would be a massive kick in our cap nuts when we also have Jackson and Cohen to extend soon.  Floyd is ascending as a player and just hitting his prime years.  We'd have a tough time replacing him with another player even remotely his equal so I'd sure as hell do whatever I could to lock him into a 4 year deal.

Here's my thinking.

Dominant defenses win championships.  Although we're nearly equal now Pace may be willing to weight our cap expenditures towards the defensive side of the ball where he values positions like Edge, DE, CB, and ball hawking FS pretty highly.  As we move on I believe he'll try to keep his defense together as much as possible and depend more on Trubisky, a stable OL, Nagy's offensive creativity and more role players on offense to get the job done.

Again, that's just a guess but IMHO it's easier to find younger cheaper skill position players who fit Nagy's schemes than it is to replace All Pro defenders in those key roles.  Floyd isn't a generational talent like Mack but in the last half of the season he made as much of an impact as I've ever seen him do since he arrived.  He's just now beginning to rise toward his ceiling so you get clever and find a way to keep him.

[Sugashane]

6 hours ago, soulman said:

Saw another proposal to trade Trevathan in the last day or two.  To be honest I don't know that we'd have many takers for a price that wouldn't be worth more for us than to keep him especially if we hope to challenge for a championship run.  Do we even has an ILB who can replace him? 

GB exposed Kwiatkoski's lack of range and coverage skills in last years opener and do we know if Iggy is ready to start?  And you're proposing to pay Brown whose also 29 more than twice the guaranteed money Trevathan got when we signed him and a deal that averages just about as much.  So where are we saving anything by downgrading? Trevathan is a very good fit for our defense and a vocal leader both on and off the field.

He's also got a $5.8 mil 2019 price tag and he's gonna be a 30 year old UFA next March so another team would have the same dilemma we'd have.  He's gonna need a new deal.  Trading a mid round pick and picking up nearly $6 mil in salary for a one year rental would be a tough sell for me unless I was desperate for him and also in competition for a championship which I do admit NOLA is as far as the competition part goes.. 

Once 3-4 ILBs like Danny whose game is based and range and coverage ability hit age 30 their value tends to become more questionable.  That's why Zach Brown is still unsigned.  I truly believe he'll be looking at getting far less money on one and two year deals in the future and it's not totally impossible to think we may be able to bring him back cheap if we're in a Super Bowl hunt.  Cheaper than you propose to pay Zach Brown at any rate.

Just playin' the Devil's Advocate here. 

I love the Devil's Advocate talk, that's half the reason I'm here. Lol

 

See with Brown it isn't just Brown versus Danny, it's brown plus a pick vs. DT. What will use that pick should be included in the comparisons for just what we have in ST. As far as the guaranteed, DT's ability wasn't in question, his durability was a large reason for him not getting more IMO. 

 

DT is better vs the pass, which makes him more valuable. Brown did well last year vs the pass but is a more traditional ILB, but he is dominant vs the run. That makes it even better for us, as the Bears passrush is second to none. Smith has shown his range, Brown can handle the dirty work more, as he can stack and shed better than DT. Whereas DT's game is based off his athleticism, Brown's is based off reads and serious physicality. It isn't a stretch to think his play might drop off less than DT's due to this exact reason. 

 

Now if DT is willing to extend for a better, more cap friendly deal I'd be more than happy to have him for a bit longer. But keeping him limits our picks in this scenario, and you especially seem to have the utmost confidence in Pace's ability to score high end talent in the middle rounds, why not take a player that is a slight downgrade to add another young talent to the team?

As for Brown's price, I'm a firm believer in haggling up unless you're trying to lure someone you really need in FA that has other suitors. If he can be had for less then great, I just have no clue what his prices or potential offers would be. 

[soulman]

4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I love the Devil's Advocate talk, that's half the reason I'm here. Lol

 

See with Brown it isn't just Brown versus Danny, it's brown plus a pick vs. DT. What will use that pick should be included in the comparisons for just what we have in ST. As far as the guaranteed, DT's ability wasn't in question, his durability was a large reason for him not getting more IMO. 

 

DT is better vs the pass, which makes him more valuable. Brown did well last year vs the pass but is a more traditional ILB, but he is dominant vs the run. That makes it even better for us, as the Bears passrush is second to none. Smith has shown his range, Brown can handle the dirty work more, as he can stack and shed better than DT. Whereas DT's game is based off his athleticism, Brown's is based off reads and serious physicality. It isn't a stretch to think his play might drop off less than DT's due to this exact reason. 

 

Now if DT is willing to extend for a better, more cap friendly deal I'd be more than happy to have him for a bit longer. But keeping him limits our picks in this scenario, and you especially seem to have the utmost confidence in Pace's ability to score high end talent in the middle rounds, why not take a player that is a slight downgrade to add another young talent to the team?

As for Brown's price, I'm a firm believer in haggling up unless you're trying to lure someone you really need in FA that has other suitors. If he can be had for less then great, I just have no clue what his prices or potential offers would be. 

OK, but that's two separate deals and maybe NE gives up one of their many compensatory picks for him but I still believe you have Trevathan over valued as far as trade booty.  With vet deals soaring teams are hoarding mid round picks because a lot of young core players you can control for 3-4 years come in rounds 3-5.  Toss in's begin in round 6 which is why that's all we got for Howard.  I can see that more clearly now.

If we traded DT why would we even need Brown?  His skill set and Kwiatkoski's are similar and Nick is younger and much cheaper?  Then you'd just have another ILB whose not a perfect match for your scheme.  Iggy is actually the guy I'd be grooming to replace DT.  If we're dumping DT as unaffordable we need another smaller cheaper ILB to replace him not a 30 years old duplicate of Kwit.  JMHO

[Sugashane]

54 minutes ago, soulman said:

OK, but that's two separate deals and maybe NE gives up one of their many compensatory picks for him but I still believe you have Trevathan over valued as far as trade booty.  With vet deals soaring teams are hoarding mid round picks because a lot of young core players you can control for 3-4 years come in rounds 3-5.  Toss in's begin in round 6 which is why that's all we got for Howard.  I can see that more clearly now.

If we traded DT why would we even need Brown?  His skill set and Kwiatkoski's are similar and Nick is younger and much cheaper?  Then you'd just have another ILB whose not a perfect match for your scheme.  Iggy is actually the guy I'd be grooming to replace DT.  If we're dumping DT as unaffordable we need another smaller cheaper ILB to replace him not a 30 years old duplicate of Kwit.  JMHO

Looking at it, I agree. Mid to late 5th is probably the top end value he could possiblt have. He isn't as limited a player/role as Howard but is older and more expensive. A 6th is probably where it would be settled for haggling price. 

 

Brown is league's above Nick right now. Last year he was one of the best ILB in the game, Nick is a fine reserve but that is where he told out at. If Brown takes a step back vs the pass from last year he still will be better than Nick has ever been against it. As for the scheme we aren't sure exactly what Pagano will do, if he is aggressive in his use of ILB then Brown might be a great fit and he is a guy you let attack. Kwit is the poor man's version of Brown, it is the same as comparing Roquan to some athletic reserve like Iggy. 

 

I'd still be for grooming Iggy, but at this stage he is notbing but projection from us like Coward, except we at least have seen coward own reserve DL. This is about getting the best players toy can while grooming their replacements, and trying not to force unprepared guys into the starting lineup. 

[soulman]

32 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Looking at it, I agree. Mid to late 5th is probably the top end value he could possiblt have. He isn't as limited a player/role as Howard but is older and more expensive. A 6th is probably where it would be settled for haggling price. 

 

Brown is league's above Nick right now. Last year he was one of the best ILB in the game, Nick is a fine reserve but that is where he told out at. If Brown takes a step back vs the pass from last year he still will be better than Nick has ever been against it. As for the scheme we aren't sure exactly what Pagano will do, if he is aggressive in his use of ILB then Brown might be a great fit and he is a guy you let attack. Kwit is the poor man's version of Brown, it is the same as comparing Roquan to some athletic reserve like Iggy. 

 

I'd still be for grooming Iggy, but at this stage he is notbing but projection from us like Coward, except we at least have seen coward own reserve DL. This is about getting the best players toy can while grooming their replacements, and trying not to force unprepared guys into the starting lineup. 

Maybe so but Kwit is also a $2k backup now and if we paid Brown $12 mil over 2 years we don't need Kwit.  But Kwit is also 5 years younger and just hitting his prime whereas Brown is hitting 30 and maybe he's gonna slide a bit.  God's honest truth is I would not make the deal at all.  I'd wait this year out and see what it would take to keep DT.  He and Smith are a very effective pair.

Tough to compare Iggy with Coward who was an UDFA whose going through a position change having to learn how to be an OL vs a mid round LB who played LB in college.  So the path to developing each if them isn't the same.  We'll see a lot of both in preseason and that will tell us more about how close they may be to starting.  I personally don't want to spend FA money on an ILB when we can draft them.

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, soulman said:

Maybe so but Kwit is also a $2k backup now and if we paid Brown $12 mil over 2 years we don't need Kwit.  But Kwit is also 5 years younger and just hitting his prime whereas Brown is hitting 30 and maybe he's gonna slide a bit.  God's honest truth is I would not make the deal at all.  I'd wait this year out and see what it would take to keep DT.  He and Smith are a very effective pair.

Tough to compare Iggy with Coward who was an UDFA whose going through a position change having to learn how to be an OL vs a mid round LB who played LB in college.  So the path to developing each if them isn't the same.  We'll see a lot of both in preseason and that will tell us more about how close they may be to starting.  I personally don't want to spend FA money on an ILB when we can draft them.

I have to respectfully disagree. I love depth and am willing to pay for it. He may take the job over long term still butt I'm just not sold on him being good enough to do so yet. The deal was just a throw on anyway, might have a better chance of a draft day trade with another team since ILB isn't a stellar group this  year. 

 

Completely fair. I was just notbing that both are nowhere near ready to start from the limited bit I have seen. Coward looks promising, Iggy is a gifted athlete but a lot of unknowns with him too. 

[soulman]

20 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I have to respectfully disagree. I love depth and am willing to pay for it. He may take the job over long term still butt I'm just not sold on him being good enough to do so yet. The deal was just a throw on anyway, might have a better chance of a draft day trade with another team since ILB isn't a stellar group this  year. 

 

Completely fair. I was just notbing that both are nowhere near ready to start from the limited bit I have seen. Coward looks promising, Iggy is a gifted athlete but a lot of unknowns with him too. 

You like Brown more than I do.  I think Kwit = Brown but younger and cheaper.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

You like Brown more than I do.  I think Kwit = Brown but younger and cheaper.

Yeah, we can agree to disagree.   I don't think Kwit could produce half the plays Brown did. Brown is a guy who is at worst a number 2, Kwit is a number 2 to me only if someone ahead of him is hurt. 

Brown has been one of the best in the league vs the run the last few years, Kwit may be ascending but the ceiling is really low IMO. I'm not high on Brown as if he is a top 15 LB in the league, but I'm not sure Kwit is top 50. Brown is atm.