1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[ThatJerkDave]

Gary isn't going to have a great year because Fackrell is going to have 300 sacks and no other defender will have any stats at all.

[AlexGreen#20]

20 hours ago, boratt said:

Reasons Gary will have a huge year:

 

Frank Clark and JJ Watt were two stout edge defenders with pass rush talent but had low production from the Big 10. Both excelled in the NFL because of greater pass rush opportunity. Gary is next. 

Gary has elite burst and speed and average bend. Paired with poor interior pass rush, this would lead to some near misses as the QB steps up. Paired with Clark, Zadarius and Daniels inside, this is gonna lead to QBs who can’t step up, so instead get thrown down. The interior rush amplified Gary’s speed rush. 

Garys power sets up his speed and his speed sets up his power. There has never been a player who measured both as big and fast as Gary. 

Gary has strength and length. Long arms are helpful. Strong, long arms even moreso. 

I’ve watched three full game tapes of Gary. He has a good speed rush, a very good bull rush, a special one arm inside jab and drive and a speed to power club move. He has those right now with no further development. 

Gary has probably the best player in the NFL to show him hand technique playing next to him in Zadarius Smith. Seeing Smith win consistently with calculated hand technique will push Gary to evolve his game. 

The Packers have 8 pass rushers who could get 5 sacks in a season right now. Z, Preston, Clark, Daniels, Gary, Fackrell, Adams and Lowry. He’s not starting. He’s going to be able to hone in as a fresh-legged pass rush specialist. And Gary’s game, being so fast and powerful to begin with will be amplified with fresh legs. 

Gary just started training to be an OLB. He’s cut his fat to 10% just in the time since we drafted him. He’s 21 years old, just hitting his stride as an athlete, and is still making gains. 

All reports suggest Gary is working his tail off to be the best! Guy seems to have a chip on his shoulder to dominate!

1. There are plenty of big ten pass rushers who lacked production and failed. Two examples of the opposite happening doesn't make it the norm.

2. Gary doesn't have elite burst or speed. He has elite burst and speed for his size. He is a tweener and we've seen plenty of athletic tweeners bust. Average bend typically kills the speed rush potential. Getting sacks around the edge when the QB can't step up is fine, but elite rushers generate their own sacks. 

3. What games are you watching that you're seeing these advanced moves? Do you have some clips?

4. Adams has shown nothing to make us think he's a 5 sack guy. Having guys who can get 5 sack in a season (low mark) isn't impressive if they have to be put into ideal situations to do it. There's only so many pressure reps to run.

5. Rashan Gary is not 10 percent body fat. Nor is he close. Not should he be anywhere near 10% body fat. That would be absolutely idiotic fitness goal for him.

 

[Shanedorf]

9 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

It's funny because he doesn't look that big, until you realize that's all 6'6", 300 lbs of Dean Lowry next to him and they look about the same size. I understand perspective and they may not even be next to each other, but boy Gary is not a small man. 

That's exactly why I post the pictures in here and evan siegle at packers.com does a great job of capturing the players in practice

[PACKRULE]

5 hours ago, deathstar said:

Our edge is going to look a lot different next year, for better or worse.

You have that right DS. With that said these are the types of players Pettine wants he wants big guys and we are sure bigger and should be stronger. I think what we as fans should be hoping for is that these guys buy in and want to play together for and for each other. If the group can play well together and do what coach wants and needs we should have a chance to create allot of pressure and pressure causes mistakes. Sacks are great for money but pressure is a huge key.

[deathstar]

10 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

 

2. Gary doesn't have elite burst or speed. He has elite burst and speed for his size. He is a tweener and we've seen plenty of athletic tweeners bust. Average bend typically kills the speed rush potential. Getting sacks around the edge when the QB can't step up is fine, but elite rushers generate their own sacks.

 

2. According to what metric does he not have elite burst and speed for the position?

[cannondale]

On 7/11/2019 at 1:38 AM, MrBobGray said:

It's funny because he doesn't look that big, until you realize that's all 6'6", 300 lbs of Dean Lowry next to him and they look about the same size. I understand perspective and they may not even be next to each other, but boy Gary is not a small man. 

Just finished staring at Lowry's arm and hand for 16 hours straight. Don't know how he feeds himself

[AlexGreen#20]

10 hours ago, deathstar said:

2. According to what metric does he not have elite burst and speed for the position?

Not going off of the metrics with that observation. 

I will say that Gary does have elite size if you eliminate the 5 techs playing edge these days, which is fair to do.

[deathstar]

11 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Not going off of the metrics with that observation. 

I will say that Gary does have elite size if you eliminate the 5 techs playing edge these days, which is fair to do.

You know I really don’t understand where you’re coming from with your Gary critiques. I’d like to because if I’m missing something I’d love to learn what it is I don’t see. I understand not wanting to get caught up in the narrative that he’s going to be an all pro. Hell I think he starts the year as a sub package player. But I just don’t get this idea that he showed nothing on tape in 2018.

[dll2000]

23 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

1. There are plenty of big ten pass rushers who lacked production and failed. Two examples of the opposite happening doesn't make it the norm.

2. Gary doesn't have elite burst or speed. He has elite burst and speed for his size. He is a tweener and we've seen plenty of athletic tweeners bust. Average bend typically kills the speed rush potential. Getting sacks around the edge when the QB can't step up is fine, but elite rushers generate their own sacks. 

3. What games are you watching that you're seeing these advanced moves? Do you have some clips?

4. Adams has shown nothing to make us think he's a 5 sack guy. Having guys who can get 5 sack in a season (low mark) isn't impressive if they have to be put into ideal situations to do it. There's only so many pressure reps to run.

5. Rashan Gary is not 10 percent body fat. Nor is he close. Not should he be anywhere near 10% body fat. That would be absolutely idiotic fitness goal for him.

 

 I had a lot of similar arguments with Bears fans when Floyd was drafted. Different strengths and weaknesses to point out, but many fans don’t want to hear any inner criticism of an early pick before he plays. 

 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, deathstar said:

You know I really don’t understand where you’re coming from with your Gary critiques. I’d like to because if I’m missing something I’d love to learn what it is I don’t see. I understand not wanting to get caught up in the narrative that he’s going to be an all pro. Hell I think he starts the year as a sub package player. But I just don’t get this idea that he showed nothing on tape in 2018.

He showed things on tape. I'm just not seeing a guy with an easy starting role to project into today.

[boratt]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

He showed things on tape. I'm just not seeing a guy with an easy starting role to project into today.

Which is going to make him look even better. He’s a top five most athletically gifted pass rusher in the NFL. And he’s gonna have fresh legs. Dude is gonna make average OL look like fools. 

He’s in the perfect situation for his rookie year. Zadarius will move inside a bunch to make room for him. 

Our best front 6 in pass rushing situations probably looks like this:

 

————————Martinez———————

Gary - Zadarius/Clark/Daniels - Preston 

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by boratt

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, boratt said:

Which is going to make him look even better. He’s a top five most athletically gifted pass rusher in the NFL. And he’s gonna have fresh legs. Dude is gonna make average OL look like fools. 

He’s in the perfect situation for his rookie year. Zadarius will move inside a bunch to make room for him. 

Our best front 6 in pass rushing situations probably looks like this:

 

————————Martinez———————

Gary - Zadarius/Clark/Daniels - Preston 

 

So we're going to be upset that our guy picked 12th is only projecting well as a pressure package guy out of the gate?

[boratt]

10 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So we're going to be upset that our guy picked 12th is only projecting well as a pressure package guy out of the gate?

Not at all. He’s 21 years old. Take advantage of the vets experience on early downs and take advantage of the 21 year olds unnatural gifts on 3rd down. 

Next year, when Daniels leaves, Zadarius can move inside full time.

Zadarius/Clark/Lowry 

[ThatJerkDave]

25 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So we're going to be upset that our guy picked 12th is only projecting well as a pressure package guy out of the gate?

Not if he is effective.  

[MrBobGray]

25 minutes ago, boratt said:

Not at all. He’s 21 years old. Take advantage of the vets experience on early downs and take advantage of the 21 year olds unnatural gifts on 3rd down. 

Next year, when Daniels leaves, Zadarius can move inside full time.

Zadarius/Clark/Lowry 

Za'darius is not a full time inside guy unless you're planning on having gain 30 pounds. There's exactly 0 270 lb 3 techs in the NFL, and he's not a 5-tech. Adams will be the guy inside on early downs when Daniels leaves. 

The thing is having a great rotation of pass rushers is a good thing. Even if Gary ends up the player you see him as he'll still probably get less snaps than you expect if everything goes as planned. If Z and Preston play up to those contracts, we're going to have one of those best case problems of not enough snaps to go around. Eventually Gary would be an every snap guy when they leave, but no point in wearing that big body down if you can have it scary fresh for the fourth quarter.