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1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]


CWood21

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19 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

When evaluating the need to take a pass rusher in the first round,  Fackrell is a scrub. 

When making excuses for our first round draft pick, Fackrell is a solid player.  

You would expect the 12th overall pick to see more than 250 snaps.  That's what he's on track for this season.  We're running the Smiths into the ground right now. 

It's not that black and white. Fackrell as a starter, not a chance. Fackrell as a 3rd EDGE rusher, I'm more than okay with.

 

And I do think we need to give them more rest, but we've been in a ton of close games this year, which is part of the reason why they're playing more.

 

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LB Coach Mike Smith on Gary, via The Athletic

Gary’s getting his 16, 18 reps this last week and he’s getting more and more, I think had six opportunities to get the quarterback,” outside linebackers coach Mike Smith said. “Talk about stringing rushes together, again, you’re not gonna get comfortable in six rushes and say, ‘OK, in these six rushes, I wanna see three sacks.’

“That’s what’s tough for Gary, just throw him in there and say, ‘Hey, go make something happen.’ You gotta look at the big picture on some of that stuff. The big thing with him is he’s growing and he’s getting comfortable at playing that. I mean, you’re talking about two different positions in college now, when you’re talking about 4-3, having his hand in the dirt, now he’s standing up, you’re adding about 15 drops to it and all the stuff … on the edge and different fronts, backfield sets.
I thought the first week here his head was gonna explode.”

Gary played a lot of six technique at Michigan and “just ran around and made plays,” Smith said. While he plays sparingly during his rookie season, coaches are emphasizing learning proper pass-rushing techniques and playbook study habits that he didn’t have in college. That, more than stats, is what they want to see.

“There was a play in practice last week and it just gave me goosebumps,” Smith said Tuesday as he pulled up his sleeve and rubbed his forearm. “It was a run and he was back at home and the Panthers had this one formation, it’s only one run. I’m looking at Gary, and he gets up there and he points like ‘Toss, toss, toss.’ Gets up, lines up, goes and makes the play. That’s a big play and a big thing for a rookie.”

 

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On 11/11/2019 at 11:06 AM, AlexGreen#20 said:

You would expect the 12th overall pick to see more than 250 snaps.  That's what he's on track for this season.  We're running the Smiths into the ground right now. 

Not that I disagree with you about the Smith thing, but I was curious to see how that compared to previous FRPs that weren't top 5 picks (i.e. Myles Garrett and Bradley Chubb).

Marcus Davenport: 416 snaps (13 games)
Haason Reddick: 445 snaps (16 games)
Derek Barnett: 424 snaps (15 games)
Charles Harris: 497 snaps (16 games)
Takk McKinley: 401 snaps (16 games)
T.J. Watt: 751 snaps (15 games)

If you ignore Watt, that's an average of 437 snaps over the course of the season.  Right now, Gary has 160 snaps.  He would need to average 46 snaps per game to hit 437 snaps, so that seems unlikely.  This smells like the coaching staff intentionally putting him in this duty.

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13 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Not that I disagree with you about the Smith thing, but I was curious to see how that compared to previous FRPs that weren't top 5 picks (i.e. Myles Garrett and Bradley Chubb).

Marcus Davenport: 416 snaps (13 games)
Haason Reddick: 445 snaps (16 games)
Derek Barnett: 424 snaps (15 games)
Charles Harris: 497 snaps (16 games)
Takk McKinley: 401 snaps (16 games)
T.J. Watt: 751 snaps (15 games)

If you ignore Watt, that's an average of 437 snaps over the course of the season.  Right now, Gary has 160 snaps.  He would need to average 46 snaps per game to hit 437 snaps, so that seems unlikely.  This smells like the coaching staff intentionally putting him in this duty.

 I assumed that his low snap count was due to the fact the Packers have played so many close games.  But looking at the breakdown, it doesn't correlate to the score really at all.  He only got 18 snaps against Oakland which was exactly in line with the rest of the games this year, and the Smiths still played 70%+.  They're very consistently only giving him 25-30% of the snaps, regardless of the score or situation.  If it's not an injury thing, ie his shoulder isn't ready for me or something, then I really don't know what's going on here.  He may not be producing, but how do you expect him to improve if he never gets consistent game reps?  

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30 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

 I assumed that his low snap count was due to the fact the Packers have played so many close games.  But looking at the breakdown, it doesn't correlate to the score really at all.  He only got 18 snaps against Oakland which was exactly in line with the rest of the games this year, and the Smiths still played 70%+.  They're very consistently only giving him 25-30% of the snaps, regardless of the score or situation.  If it's not an injury thing, ie his shoulder isn't ready for me or something, then I really don't know what's going on here.  He may not be producing, but how do you expect him to improve if he never gets consistent game reps?  

re-read Shanedorf's post.

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2 minutes ago, Joe said:

re-read Shanedorf's post.

Right, but that doesn't actually answer anything.  Mike is basically explaining why Gary's production isn't up, but it's not explaining why they aren't giving him actual game reps.  If his head is spinning, then put him at LOLB and just let him rush some.  If you take a guy 12th overall, saying he's not polished enough is not a reason to keep him off the field, and in fact is probably working against him.  He should have been out there for the entire fourth quarter of the Oakland game and his only job should have been to work on his rush.

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2 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

Right, but that doesn't actually answer anything.  Mike is basically explaining why Gary's production isn't up, but it's not explaining why they aren't giving him actual game reps.  If his head is spinning, then put him at LOLB and just let him rush some.  If you take a guy 12th overall, saying he's not polished enough is not a reason to keep him off the field, and in fact is probably working against him.  He should have been out there for the entire fourth quarter of the Oakland game and his only job should have been to work on his rush.

That all makes sense, but the point is that Gary has a TON of potential that's been untapped because he was quartered at Michigan. Gary is a long-term investment who compliments the Smiths and will eventually be Fackrell's replacement and an upgrade at that. Right now, they actually ARE giving him reps and I suspect he will get more as the season wears on.

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3 minutes ago, Joe said:

That all makes sense, but the point is that Gary has a TON of potential that's been untapped because he was quartered at Michigan. Gary is a long-term investment who compliments the Smiths and will eventually be Fackrell's replacement and an upgrade at that. Right now, they actually ARE giving him reps and I suspect he will get more as the season wears on.

Oh 100%, to be clear I'm not worried about Gary at all.  This was always a full redshirt year for him in my mind regarding his performance; I don't care how well he plays as long as he's making steady improvement.  I just wonder what it is that's keeping him from seeing the field to the degree he is.  As pointed out, literally every other FRP EDGE player played at least 2x as many snaps as Gary has.  It may very well be that they don't want to overwhelm him, and frankly Smith/Smith/Fackrell is already a very high end rotation, just wish we could see him at least get some garbage time snaps here to work on his game in a live rounds situation.

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If you are worried about overwhelming the #12 draft pick with those snap counts, well, you probably didn't take the right kid.  Or you are babying him too much.

The right kid would eat those snaps up, beg for more and show he's ready for more by this point and time.

It's honestly a little distressing how much they are coddling Gary right now.

What he really needs is a blow out victory where he can just go out there and put what he's learned to the test.

 

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Totally disagree that Gary is a long term investment nor do I come to terms with a lost season. This isn't a 5th Round pick we are talking about. I contend that 25% of the 4 year short term investment of a Top 12 pick is nearly complete and fans and coaches are still talking potential and how great he is in shorts. That's a fail 

Edited by cannondale
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First off, first round picks are 5 years, not 4. Second, even high picks need time to transition, and Gary was raw enough, this is a situation it makes sense to not rush it.

 

It doesn't matter how high they are picked, most rookies aren't really ready year 1. Some contribute, but it's a bonus more than the norm.

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6 hours ago, cannondale said:

Totally disagree that Gary is a long term investment nor do I come to terms with a lost season. This isn't a 5th Round pick we are talking about. I contend that 25% of the 4 year short term investment of a Top 12 pick is nearly complete and fans and coaches are still talking potential and how great he is in shorts. That's a fail 

High picks do not always correlate to a finished product on the field. Some players are quite close to a finished product out of the box (like Nick Bosa) while some are high picks for the athletic potential and everyone knows they need work. the Packers picked a 'high-upside - needs work' guy. If Gary isn't doing much by the middle of NEXT season, I might be seeing a possible fail. At this time the grade is incomplete.

It doesn't matter if you haven't come to terms with what you call a lost season, the Packers and outside scouts all knew he needed plenty of work and Gute took the pick anyway, because he fitted what they wanted, a high RAS guy (9.95) who is a bigger type of pass rusher, not a (listed as) 6'5", 250lb Brian Burns type, but a more powerful 6'4", 277.

Edited by OneTwoSixFive
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3 minutes ago, spilltray said:

First off, first round picks are 5 years, not 4. Second, even high picks need time to transition, and Gary was raw enough, this is a situation it makes sense to not rush it.

 

It doesn't matter how high they are picked, most rookies aren't really ready year 1. Some contribute, but it's a bonus more than the norm.

Murray: Contributing

Bosa: Contributing

Williams: Contributing more than Gary

Ferrell: Contributing more than Gary

White: Contributing

Jones: Contributing

Allen: Contributing

Hockenson: Contributing more than Gary

Oliver: Contributing more than Gary

Bush: Contributing

Williams: Injured in preseason

+++++

Wilkins: Contributing more than Gary

Lindstrom: Injured in week 1

Haskins: Seems to suck. Probably not contributing more than Gary.

Burns: Contributing

Lawrence: Contributing

Bradbury: Contributing more than Gary

Simmons: Contributing since he's been cleared.

Fant: Contributing

Savage: Contributing

Dillard: Contributing

Howard: Contributing

Jacobs: Contributing

Brown: Contributing

Sweat: Contributing

Abraham: Injured in week 1

Tillery: Contributing more than Gary

Collier: Not contributing

Baker: Playing but terrible.

McGary: Playing, but mediocre

Harry: Taken off of IR after Week 8.

 

 

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Just because they are seeing the field doesn't mean they SHOULD be. Green Bay is in the lucky position of having two guys in front of Gary who are outright good. They aren't forced to play Gary. Is it fundamentally different from Aaron Rodgers? Most teams don't have the luxury to not throw someone like Gary into a major role right away and we are lucky we have the opportunity to work with him this way 

 

Edit: Not to mention he looks fine in what snaps he is getting. If forced into a larger role, I'd bet Gary would be "contributing".

Edited by spilltray
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