1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[OneTwoSixFive]

7 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

In this case it's sort of irrelevant; either Gary will or won't develop into an impact player for Green Bay in time to get value. If he does, the slow start won't matter. But it's not like it's wrong to point out the start is indeed slow, and much slower than most. Players who have as far to go as Gary bust with some frequency; in no way means he's going to, but it's something to be aware of

That is very nicely stated, @MrBobGray, and nicely to the point, allowing posters with different views to come together and say "Well that's kind of what I was trying to say". It covers both the concerns at the speed of development and the possibility that he might yet be an impact player in the future. You have a knack of uniting views, as opposed to pushing posters into opposing camps...................

You should be a diplomat.

[Golfman]

12 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Alex is really dooming himself if Gary turns into a good one.  He will always be the one who hated Gary like I will always be the one who wanted to trade Rodgers.

So, I was not in the Gary fan club when we drafted him. I trashed the kid in the pre-draft season. I watched a lot of Michigan games and saw a guy who never really did anything to jump off the screen.  I was also on board with trading Rodgers 2 - 3 years ago and robbing Cleveland blind, my personal make believe scenario. I think it's great to have those opinions but another thing to continue to belabor a point so you can be 'right'! 

I think @AlexGreen#20 has taken the ladder approach, which makes him seem at times to be wishing the kid would fail. Hell, I"m praying I"m wrong about both of the above scenarios and we win a few more Super Bowls with Rodgers and Gary turns into the stud his ATHLETIC ABILITY suggests he 'should' be! 

Neither may come true but if they are Packers I'm going to be rooting for them like crazy! 

[{Family Ghost}]

I'm just kind of amazed how everyone keeps falling in love with this guys athletic ability despite him never really being all that productive.  You hope the light goes on and he puts that all-world athletic ability to great use, but deep down you are almost sure that he never will.  I guess we'll see.  

[pacman5252]

5 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I'm just kind of amazed how everyone keeps falling in love with this guys athletic ability despite him never really being all that productive.  You hope the light goes on and he puts that all-world athletic ability to great use, but deep down you are almost sure that he never will.  I guess we'll see.  

I get your point, but It goes both ways. Production doesn’t mean success. There are many productive players that don’t have the athletic ability to translate (and there are also freaks who slip and 5 years later people ask why). In 2018 we flopped on both sides of this. Look at Josh Jackson who we “stole” in round 2 who was a pff allstar in college. Oren Burks sucked in college but tested well and looks like a bust as well.

[Mazrimiv]

Once ILB Bush was gone, I am not sure there was anyone left at #12 who I thought would be a great pick.  Even looking back at it now, I am not sure how many of the guys who I remember as fan favorites would be viewed as much of an upgrade over Gary right now.  I had a vague notion that maybe Simmons would have been worth the risk, but that seemed like a reach with the #12 pick.  Given how the Smith's are being used, I expect GB fans would be doubting rookie Burns (had he been the pick) every bit as much as they are now doubting rookie Gary.  At least with Gary I don't have to read endless Jamal Reynolds comparisons, and posts about how FSU pass rushers always bust.

[AlexGreen#20]

36 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

Once ILB Bush was gone, I am not sure there was anyone left at #12 who I thought would be a great pick.  Even looking back at it now, I am not sure how many of the guys who I remember as fan favorites would be viewed as much of an upgrade over Gary right now.  I had a vague notion that maybe Simmons would have been worth the risk, but that seemed like a reach with the #12 pick.  Given how the Smith's are being used, I expect GB fans would be doubting rookie Burns (had he been the pick) every bit as much as they are now doubting rookie Gary.  At least with Gary I don't have to read endless Jamal Reynolds comparisons, and posts about how FSU pass rushers always bust.

Can't help but feel that given as many pressure package looks as Gary has gotten so far, Burns wouldn't be a bit better.

A lot of Gary's value is his positional flexibility. I don't need as much flexibility in my edge rusher with Z. Smith on the roster. I want Z playing 3T and the best damn 7/9 that I can get my hands on in the pressure looks. 

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Can't help but feel that given as many pressure package looks as Gary has gotten so far, Burns wouldn't be a bit better.

A lot of Gary's value is his positional flexibility. I don't need as much flexibility in my edge rusher with Z. Smith on the roster. I want Z playing 3T and the best damn 7/9 that I can get my hands on in the pressure looks. 

Burns hasn't been anything to rave about either. In his last 5 games he's had 1 tackle. 

I loved him as a prospect and he would've been by EDGE pick but he has no speed to power move, and those guys don't last in the NFL either. Burns has had more snaps and lucked himself into more coverage sacks, but we'd be in the same boat as we are with Gary. A one trick pony whose future doesn't look too bright if they can't add to their arsenal.

Sweat can't bend and hasn't done much either. Once you missed on Bosa/Allen/Oliver you were drafting a pass rusher based on what athletic package you liked best and flaw you thought was easier to fix.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Burns hasn't been anything to rave about either. In his last 5 games he's had 1 tackle. 

I loved him as a prospect and he would've been by EDGE pick but he has no speed to power move, and those guys don't last in the NFL either. Burns has had more snaps and lucked himself into more coverage sacks, but we'd be in the same boat as we are with Gary. A one trick pony whose future doesn't look too bright if they can't add to their arsenal.

Sweat can't bend and hasn't done much either. Once you missed on Bosa/Allen/Oliver you were drafting a pass rusher based on what athletic package you liked best and flaw you thought was easier to fix.

Burns has been hampered by a broken wrist in week 4, which is why he is down in production.

It was a dumb injury- he barely missed blocking a punt, slammed his hand on the ground in frustration and broke something.  Was playing with a club for a while.

[AlexGreen#20]

12 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Burns hasn't been anything to rave about either. In his last 5 games he's had 1 tackle. 

I loved him as a prospect and he would've been by EDGE pick but he has no speed to power move, and those guys don't last in the NFL either. Burns has had more snaps and lucked himself into more coverage sacks, but we'd be in the same boat as we are with Gary. A one trick pony whose future doesn't look too bright if they can't add to their arsenal.

Sweat can't bend and hasn't done much either. Once you missed on Bosa/Allen/Oliver you were drafting a pass rusher based on what athletic package you liked best and flaw you thought was easier to fix.

Bosa has 30 PFR pressures on 426 snaps. 

Burns has 19 PFR pressures in 347 snaps.

Gary has 3 PFR pressures in 160 snaps. 

There's an entire tier of pass rushing productivity separating Bosa and Burns.

There's like seven tiers of pass rushing productivity separating Gary and Burns. 

Burns with LITERALLY one hand has been a more productive pass rusher than Gary.

Edited November 24, 2019 by AlexGreen#20

[Packerraymond]

32 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Bosa has 30 PFR pressures on 426 snaps. 

Burns has 19 PFR pressures in 347 snaps.

Gary has 3 PFR pressures in 160 snaps. 

There's an entire tier of pass rushing productivity separating Bosa and Burns.

There's like seven tiers of pass rushing productivity separating Gary and Burns. 

Burns with LITERALLY one hand has been a more productive pass rusher than Gary.

Burn and Gary haven't been impressive, does it really matter what tier of unimpressive? I also don't care about year 1 rookie production as I've said countless times in this thread so I'm not sure why you keep posting their stats.

Long term, Burns isn't going to amount to anything unless we can keep on weight and develop a speed to power move and Gary won't amount to anything unless he learn hand placement and counter moves. 

[Norm]

[Norm]

Take that **** @AlexGreen#20. Even the POTUS knows how great Gary is. This whole thing about him is fake news and a witch hunt orchestrated by the deep vikings state.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Burn and Gary haven't been impressive, does it really matter what tier of unimpressive? I also don't care about year 1 rookie production as I've said countless times in this thread so I'm not sure why you keep posting their stats.

Long term, Burns isn't going to amount to anything unless we can keep on weight and develop a speed to power move and Gary won't amount to anything unless he learn hand placement and counter moves. 

What the hell do you mean he's not going to develop into anything?

Zadarius Smith right now has 31 PFR pressures on 538 snaps. A pressure every 17.5 snaps.

Burns with a broken wrist his rookie season has a pressure every 18.2 snaps. 

Gary completely healthy has a pressure every 53 snaps.

Burns could not do a damn thing as far as development and if he maintained this production level he'd be a solid player. 

And Burns is younger than Gary. 

 

[Gopackgonerd]

2 minutes ago, Norm said:

Trumps the biggest gary stan eva

[Packerraymond]

7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What the hell do you mean he's not going to develop into anything?

Zadarius Smith right now has 31 PFR pressures on 538 snaps. A pressure every 17.5 snaps.

Burns with a broken wrist his rookie season has a pressure every 18.2 snaps. 

Gary completely healthy has a pressure every 53 snaps.

Burns could not do a damn thing as far as development and if he maintained this production level he'd be a solid player. 

And Burns is younger than Gary. 

 

Burns started out hot and those numbers are coasting from there. Name a good pass rusher in this league who has no speed to power move? You won't be able to. It's the reason no one wanted Arden Key and the reason Leonard Floyd hasn't put it together. You get figured out.

Burns will be no different.