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1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

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2 hours ago, cannondale said:

Saying 2+2 does not equal 5 is not being a Debbie Downer.

Here's some more math.  2020 =/= 2019.  

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I'm still in the same boat I was when we drafted him. He's still young and physically gifted and works hard and the coaches love his effort. Not a huge fan but If everything works he'll be a stud. If not you at least invested in the right TYPE of guy. 

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I can't believe this is still going on. What is there even to talk about? He had exactly the rookie year you would expect on paper. Like, exactly. It wasn't a good year, and no one should be claiming it was. The Packers could replace his production this season with a street FA. That's not a good season. But he wasn't drafted for this season and on this team he should not have been expected to see more playing time than he got.

If he was going to see the field year one it was going to be in one of two ways: a dumpster fire team that could afford to throw snaps away to try to accelerate his growth, or a winning team that had an opening for a run stuffing DE with the bonus of being about to shut down the read-option. The Packers certainly weren't taking either Smith off the field for a rookie that couldn't rush year one so Gary was always destined for the bench. Fackrell just knew the defense and was a much better chess piece. You can argue that maybe the staff should have proritized the growth of their #12 overall pick, but regardless they chose what they chose. 

Gary did nothing and that's what was expected of him. That's not an A+, it's just a pass. Gary showed positive growth in the limited exposure he had, so it's a pass + EC. It's basically the best outcome he could have had short of a total lightbulb moment where he just is a different player entirely, which basically never happens. But that just means Gary is on track to be a player, and as last seen he certainly wasn't ready or close. He has a lot of work and a long way to go if he wants meaningful snaps on this team next year.  Looks like he's working, so now we just wait.

Edited by MrBobGray

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4 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

I can't believe this is still going on. What is there even to talk about? He had exactly the rookie year you would expect on paper. Like, exactly. It wasn't a good year, and no one should be claiming it was. The Packers could replace his production this season with a street FA. That's not a good season. But he wasn't drafted for this season and on this team he should not have been expected to see more playing time than he got.

If he was going to see the field year one it was going to be in one of two ways: a dumpster fire team that could afford to throw snaps away to try to accelerate his growth, or a winning team that had an opening for a run stuffing DE with the bonus of being about to shut down the read-option. The Packers certainly weren't taking either Smith off the field for a rookie that couldn't rush year one so Gary was always destined for the bench. Fackrell just knew the defense and was a much better chess piece. You can argue that maybe the staff should have proritized the growth of their #12 overall pick, but regardless they chose what they chose. 

Gary did nothing and that's what was expected of him. That's not an A+, it's just a pass. Gary showed positive growth in the limited exposure he had, so it's a pass + EC. It's basically the best outcome he could have had short of a total lightbulb moment where he just is a different player entirely, which basically never happens. But that just means Gary is on track to be a player, and as last seen he certainly wasn't ready or close. He has a lot of work and a long way to go if he wants meaningful snaps on this team next year.  Looks like he's working, so now we just wait.

I don't think that's accurate. There was some expectation of his ability to do certain things based exclusively on athleticism, especially in the pressure packages. He got those snaps in the pressure package, he just was consistently shut down. 

My question is whether or not those expectations of him were too low.

Nick Bosa is only 41 days older than him.

Montez Sweat is admittedly 444 days older than him.

Brian Burns is 142 days younger than him.

Josh Allen is 153 days older than him. 

Clelin Ferrell is 200 days older than him. 

It's not like Gary is coming in as a super young prospect. College Football has gotten this thing down to the point where three years and out is basically the standard for anybody talented enough to be a first round pick. 

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35 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I don't think that's accurate. There was some expectation of his ability to do certain things based exclusively on athleticism, especially in the pressure packages. He got those snaps in the pressure package, he just was consistently shut down. 

My question is whether or not those expectations of him were too low.

Nick Bosa is only 41 days older than him.

Montez Sweat is admittedly 444 days older than him.

Brian Burns is 142 days younger than him.

Josh Allen is 153 days older than him. 

Clelin Ferrell is 200 days older than him. 

It's not like Gary is coming in as a super young prospect. College Football has gotten this thing down to the point where three years and out is basically the standard for anybody talented enough to be a first round pick. 

It's possible Packers didn't want to push him to much and if so, why?  However, with the Smiths being signed for the big dollars, Gary wasn't going to get a ton of snaps.  If the Packers would have gone 8-8 and not made the playoffs he probably would have gotten more reps.  However, the team surprised everyone, the Smiths were a huge part of it and Gary just got "scraps" for playing time.   I'm hopeful he contributes more somehow/somewhere for the team next year.  Fingers crossed.  

Edited by coachbuns

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7 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

It's possible Packers didn't want to push him to much and if so, why?  However, with the Smiths being signed for the big dollars, Gary wasn't going to get a ton of snaps.  If the Packers would have gone 8-8 and not made the playoffs he probably would have gotten more reps.  However, the team surprised everyone, the Smiths were a huge part of it and Gary just got "scraps" for playing time.   I'm hopeful he contributes more somehow/somewhere for the team next year.  Fingers crossed.  

Here's where I reject the notion of the Smiths blocking Gary. Kyler Fackrell played 450 snaps. 

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1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I don't think that's accurate. There was some expectation of his ability to do certain things based exclusively on athleticism, especially in the pressure packages. He got those snaps in the pressure package, he just was consistently shut down. 

My question is whether or not those expectations of him were too low.

Nick Bosa is only 41 days older than him.

Montez Sweat is admittedly 444 days older than him.

Brian Burns is 142 days younger than him.

Josh Allen is 153 days older than him. 

Clelin Ferrell is 200 days older than him. 

It's not like Gary is coming in as a super young prospect. College Football has gotten this thing down to the point where three years and out is basically the standard for anybody talented enough to be a first round pick. 

Who cares about the age? It's all about the coaching they've received until that point. Gary had no rush arsenal. I told everyone on day 1 of him being a Packer and watching every snap available of his 2018/2017 tape. He has a bull rush, his only counter to the bull rush is a 1 arm bull rush. 

When he was picked would I have been disappointed in his rookie numbers? Yeah. If you have me the context that Z was All Pro caliber and Preston flirted with Pro Bowl caliber on the EDGE, my only hope would've been that Gary started to show some signs of a rush arsenal over the course of a season. He did. First half was rough, but if you watched the college tape that's what you expected. He won a lot of camp 1-1's with that athletic ability and built some unrealistic hype. I trust what Smith did with those guys in KC, I'm excited to see him get a full off-season with Gary. Definitely looks like Gary is going to play in the high 260 range, definitely doesn't look like he's added weight from the videos he's posted.

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8 hours ago, wgbeethree said:

I'm still in the same boat I was when we drafted him. He's still young and physically gifted and works hard and the coaches love his effort. Not a huge fan but If everything works he'll be a stud. If not you at least invested in the right TYPE of guy. 

Physically gifted 

works hard 

coaches love his effort 

why aren’t you a fan?

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24 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Physically gifted 

works hard 

coaches love his effort 

why aren’t you a fan?

Because you want better production from a #12 overall pick.

That's really the rub.  And I'm guilty of it.  And even I can give him more time.  But the early return was not good for a great many reasons.  

And...it's problematic because his collegiate production wasn't very good either, especially when considering he was the #1 recruit out of high school.  Production has never matched his physical gifts.  College or pros.

I'm not bagging on him here, just pointing out why some may not be fans.  There is justification there.  And...the kid does need more time and opportunity.

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30 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Because you want better production from a #12 overall pick.

That's really the rub.  And I'm guilty of it.  And even I can give him more time.  But the early return was not good for a great many reasons.  

And...it's problematic because his collegiate production wasn't very good either, especially when considering he was the #1 recruit out of high school.  Production has never matched his physical gifts.  College or pros.

I'm not bagging on him here, just pointing out why some may not be fans.  There is justification there.  And...the kid does need more time and opportunity.

I’ve said my peace on Gary many times. I get it, he wasn’t a factor in a year we went to the NFCCG, but that information aside ( not many had us going very far) he was the right pick. I’m going to gamble on a prospect like Gary 10 out of 10 times.

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26 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

I’ve said my peace on Gary many times. I get it, he wasn’t a factor in a year we went to the NFCCG, but that information aside ( not many had us going very far) he was the right pick. I’m going to gamble on a prospect like Gary 10 out of 10 times.

Everybody will know in 3 years.

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4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Here's where I reject the notion of the Smiths blocking Gary. Kyler Fackrell played 450 snaps. 

Obviously the coaches thought Fackrell showed more in practice and Gary was way behind. He was a one trick pony in college … is that on Gary or the coaches?

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We're getting dangerously close to AJ Hawk territory with this guy in regards to expectations due to draft position...

Again. He was not scheduled to play a ton of snaps this season and he's an investment pick for the long-term and, with the kind of development expected, be a major piece to the defense. We should be revisiting this conversation at the end of next year or,  preferably, in year 3...

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3 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said:

I’ve said my peace on Gary many times. I get it, he wasn’t a factor in a year we went to the NFCCG, but that information aside ( not many had us going very far) he was the right pick. I’m going to gamble on a prospect like Gary 10 out of 10 times.

Gary had nothing to do with the teams success in reaching the NFCCG.  Not relevant.

I don't know if he was the right pick.  I don't know if he was the wrong pick.  Time will tell.

I get that all first round picks are "gambles" to some extent, but I would have loved better production from the 12'th overall pick.

And that's it.  He's got plenty of time to prove it on the field. 

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