1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[pacman5252]

1 hour ago, craig said:

Think there's a huge continuum from "bust" to "great"/"star"/"big year"/"breakout".

He's going to get a lot of snaps, obviously, so will get some volume numbers in terms of tackles/sacks/pressures. 

I'm kinda guessing he might end up somewhere in that in-between continuum somewhere between awful and great.  

Preston has averaged 7 sacks; less without the lift from his 12-sack 2019.  

I can easily imagine a landscape where Gary ends up with 7 sacks.  And there are two perspectives:

1.  Kinda JAG, less than you should get for a #12 pick.  Maybe the 7 sacks will be analyzed and disrespected: a couple coming in a single game against some below-average or backup tackle; one where some blocker just whiffed and Gary got a free pass; two that were totally coverage sacks; maybe one where somebody else really got the pressure and got the hand and then Gary ended up with the cleanup sack; maybe only one in which he flat out beat a ≥average NFL tackle for a true sack.  Or, maybe he'll get the 7 sacks, but somebody will cite pressure rates and conclude that his pressure rate really wasn't average, just kinda JAG rate.  And maybe he'll have 6 offsides penalties that drive posters crazy.  

2.  Or maybe he'll have 7 sacks but some posters will see his year as really positive.  7 sacks isn't amazing, but it's pretty solid.  His pressure % was better than his actual sack rate; if he can sustain and further improve that pressure rate, that's what counts and plenty more sacks will come, listen to Mike Smith it's pressure not just sacks!  7 sacks relative to not being a full-time player is plenty good, if he's a full starting guy he'd be double figures.  Sure he got "only" 7 sacks, but looks what a force he was in run-containment and setting the edge?  Sure, he got "only" 7 himself, but he did a lot of strong team-oriented dirty work, that freed Z to improv and rack up 14.  Sure, he got "only" 7 himself, but he didn't start fast and as the season progressed and he found his way, he was looking better and better; wait till year 3, that's when he'll really "break out"!  Sure, he got "only" 7, but he started much faster than that; after he injured XYZ he was playing hurt down the stretch.  Wait till year 3 when he comes back healthy!  Etc....

Heh heh, I'm guessing he'll play at a level variably north of awful, but sufficiently south of great, so that perhaps we come out still with conflicting board perspectives on whether he's an asset to be celebrated, or too average to be more than a bit of a disappointment.   

Hope I'm under-anticipating, and that as the season progresses, it's relatively unanimous that he's an asset and a good player.  

Considering Gary was pick 12, my personal bar for him is to be a good player year 2.... something like playing 65% of snaps, a solid pressure rate, and like 7 sacks. If he blows up great. If he has a sub par pressure rate I’ll be as disappointed as draft night 

[craig]

11 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

Considering Gary was pick 12, my personal bar for him is to be a good player year 2.... something like playing 65% of snaps, a solid pressure rate, and like 7 sacks. If he blows up great. If he has a sub par pressure rate I’ll be as disappointed as draft night 

Yup, my viewpoint too.  Hope he blows up, but won't complain if he's good.  

[PACKRULE]

After last year and the process coming along slowly I'd be pleased seeing a good jump from the kid. If he can do his job and be creating pressure that would be a win. If he can play some inside that would also be good. Lets hope that he's watched allot of Z tape.

[Joe]

I think we can all agree that the coaching staff is limiting him at the moment. Unless he's not intentionally limited to X amount of snaps, there should be no reason he can't improve upon what he was able to accomplish late last season.

[vegas492]

47 minutes ago, Joe said:

I think we can all agree that the coaching staff is limiting him at the moment. Unless he's not intentionally limited to X amount of snaps, there should be no reason he can't improve upon what he was able to accomplish late last season.

Yah, I agree.  They are limiting his responsibilities.  Trying to keep it simple for him.  I hope he gets to see EDGE snaps, and flip Z down inside.  Once Gary has the EDGE stuff down, then you build upon that and put him inside some.

No reason for him not to get the Fackrell snaps from last year...and maybe even more.

I wish there were preseason games, not just for Gary, but for our other EDGE rushers as well.  Sounded like Ramsey, Williams and Garvin all have flashed.  (I hope I got those names right.)  

[Beast]

7 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I wish there were preseason games, not just for Gary, but for our other EDGE rushers as well.  Sounded like Ramsey, Williams and Garvin all have flashed.  (I hope I got those names right.)  

When an entire position like the OLBers have reportedly been flashing potential, I get concerned, are they flashing because they're that good and deep, or are they flashing because the group opposite of them (the OTs) are struggling and quite swallow?

And looking at the OTs, the group depth looks pretty bad, especially when Wagner was out. 

So I'm concerned that the OLB hype (especially guys behind Gary) might not match up when they get to face other teams... 

Not sure about Gary, as he's reportedly given Bak some troubles, but also some of his other reps are against lower guys too.

[beekay414]

I mean, the kid was completely mishandled at Michigan. They had him with two hands in the dirt, taking on two blockers freeing up their speed guys at linebacker. Now, we had to slim him down and re-teach him how to be an edge. He's such a gifted kid that I have no doubts he'll thrive. Give it time and don't write the kid off. 

[beekay414]

On 4/25/2019 at 8:43 PM, CWood21 said:

I’ll fluff it up later.

liar. you repulsive liar.

[Mazrimiv]

23 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

Considering Gary was pick 12, my personal bar for him is to be a good player year 2.... something like playing 65% of snaps, a solid pressure rate, and like 7 sacks. If he blows up great. If he has a sub par pressure rate I’ll be as disappointed as draft night 

I Gary's trajectory is similar to Clark's, I'll be more than happy.  Steady improvement over the span of the rookie contract, and one of the best at his position by the end of it.

[vegas492]

On 8/28/2020 at 9:56 PM, Beast said:

When an entire position like the OLBers have reportedly been flashing potential, I get concerned, are they flashing because they're that good and deep, or are they flashing because the group opposite of them (the OTs) are struggling and quite swallow?

 

I get the angst.  But all those kids have some explosive qualities to them.

There's been many training camps when no EDGES outside of CM3 have looked good.

Me?  I'm pretty happy that we appears to have some depth at that position.  Gotta think that EDGE4 is going to have some responsibility on specials, so it will be nice having a plus athlete or two on those teams as well as for depth on the EDGE.

[Beast]

40 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I get the angst.  But all those kids have some explosive qualities to them.

There's been many training camps when no EDGES outside of CM3 have looked good.

Me?  I'm pretty happy that we appears to have some depth at that position.  Gotta think that EDGE4 is going to have some responsibility on specials, so it will be nice having a plus athlete or two on those teams as well as for depth on the EDGE.

Yes, and I'm thinking they keep 5 OLBers since they're planning on using 3 OLB in a single formations times, getting the Smith's and Gary all on the field at the same time with Clark, and you got one hell of a pass rushing group.

[MrBobGray]

The OLB group being so good through the ranks is probably a bit of a mirage.  Tipa and Garvin are both tall, long armed rushers with solid athleticism, and Williams is a fourth year player who played at Alabama and with that monster OLB crew in Baltimore.  Tipa and Garvin are going to win 1v1s and bring heat on obvious rushing downs in a way that excites twitter reporters, and Williams is a vet who's been coached to within an inch of his life going against guys with mixed levels of experience and talent who are trying to figure out how to stick on a team.  This doesn't mean there isn't talent there; this is a really nice back of the roster OLB group to be bringing into the season behind Smith/Smith/Gary, but I would be surprised if any of them made any significant noise this season.  Maybe Williams gets some snaps as a veteran sub-rusher and has a nice year, although if he was going to do that I think he probably would have done it in BAL.

Edited August 31, 2020 by MrBobGray

[craig]

Yeah, quick slim guys who are pass-rushers will look best in camp against 2's and 3's.  In real-season games in pads, they might be getting pancaked in the run game by starting NFL tackles.  But, who knows, maybe they've got some quick-twitch and will be good pass-rush options, and perhaps have some drop-back quickness, too?  Obviously our big 3 are all big guys; perhaps subbing in some small quicksters once in a while might work?  

[Donzo]

On 8/29/2020 at 3:20 AM, beekay414 said:

I mean, the kid was completely mishandled at Michigan. They had him with two hands in the dirt, taking on two blockers freeing up their speed guys at linebacker. Now, we had to slim him down and re-teach him how to be an edge. He's such a gifted kid that I have no doubts he'll thrive. Give it time and don't write the kid off. 

Yep... He's stills so young & green. He'll be better this year & get a lot more PT, but he still needs more time before we see his best. He's just learning to play edge & in space.

The age age thing is just huge. I think I read he's still the 5th youngest guy on the team. When he puts it all together we could see something special.

[thrILL!]

Almost a sack here and on one of Gary's solo tackles, Cousins barely fell across the line of scrimmage to avoid the sack.  Not a monster game but a promising performance.