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1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]


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47 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

 

Label me as really impressed with Brian Burns.  

Last year as a rookie....25 combination tackles.  19 solo.  7.5 sacks.  5 tackles for loss.  16 QB hits.

This year so far....56 combination tackles.  33 solo.  8 sacks.  7 tackles for loss.  20 QB hits.

Gary.

Rookie year.  21 combination tackles.  13 solo.  2 sacks.  3 tackles for loss.  3 QB hits.

This year so far....24 combination tackles.  13 solo.  5 sacks.  4 tackles for loss.  11 QB hits.

I'm not sure about snap counts between the two.  

My eye ball tests tells me that right now (which is key), Burns is a better pass rusher than Gary.  Gary's career sack total is still under where Burns was as a rookie.

This will be fun to watch over the next few years.  I feel like Gary has the power game to him that Burns doesn't have.  Burns has the bend game that Gary doesn't have.  

And Gary is just bigger.  Should be a better all around player, though I don't think he will ever be the pure pass rusher that Burns is and will be.

I definitely do wish we took Burns, but I do get the Gary pick. As far as alignments go, you can only really use Burns off the edge (250/6'5''). The fanbase here has definitely understated Gary's position flexibility in that you can line Gary up inside on passing downs, etc. Unfortnately Gary hasn't been great against the run, which you'd think with his size he'd excel.

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6 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

I definitely do wish we took Burns, but I do get the Gary pick. As far as alignments go, you can only really use Burns off the edge (250/6'5''). The fanbase here has definitely understated Gary's position flexibility in that you can line Gary up inside on passing downs, etc. Unfortnately Gary hasn't been great against the run, which you'd think with his size he'd excel.

For our current system, Gary is the prototype. I’ve seen him play the run pretty well, last year that was one of the bright spots from my look at his limited snaps. He doesn’t win them all but whether it’s players or scheme, we bleed running yards and that has been the case  for years.

Our best games against the run come when we get a few early stops and then the O runs up the score and other teams abandon the run. Ten seems like a team that will stay pretty committed to it so we will all get chance to see what we’ve got as a team. 

Edited by Refugee
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It's an estimation of production versus promise - with the key variable being snap counts.

If snap counts were even this year - which they're not - the die would be cast: Burns would be killing it.
Does Gary have a higher ceiling than Burns - only time, production and snap counts will tell the tale - but NFL careers aren't all that long - so "production now" is important.  I'm still hopeful on Gary and want him getting more field time....cause (barring injury) its time a #12 pick get on the field.

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13 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

I definitely do wish we took Burns, but I do get the Gary pick. As far as alignments go, you can only really use Burns off the edge (250/6'5'').

Is Burns actually 250#  I thought coming out of college his detractors cited that as a potential problem - he was deemed light and/or unable to put on and maintain the weight necessary in the NFL. I'm pretty sure he wasnt 250 when he was drafted. Perhaps he's bulked up.

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4 hours ago, vegas492 said:

 

Label me as really impressed with Brian Burns.  

Last year as a rookie....25 combination tackles.  19 solo.  7.5 sacks.  5 tackles for loss.  16 QB hits.

This year so far....56 combination tackles.  33 solo.  8 sacks.  7 tackles for loss.  20 QB hits.

Gary.

Rookie year.  21 combination tackles.  13 solo.  2 sacks.  3 tackles for loss.  3 QB hits.

This year so far....24 combination tackles.  13 solo.  5 sacks.  4 tackles for loss.  11 QB hits.

I'm not sure about snap counts between the two.  

My eye ball tests tells me that right now (which is key), Burns is a better pass rusher than Gary.  Gary's career sack total is still under where Burns was as a rookie.

This will be fun to watch over the next few years.  I feel like Gary has the power game to him that Burns doesn't have.  Burns has the bend game that Gary doesn't have.  

And Gary is just bigger.  Should be a better all around player, though I don't think he will ever be the pure pass rusher that Burns is and will be.

I like and wanted Burns at 12 in 2019. I also think he's better at this point and was more NFL ready. But Gary was/is also playing behind Z and Preston. That has to be taken into account when comparing them statistically. 

Edited by Arthur Penske
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4 hours ago, Arthur Penske said:

I like and wanted Burns at 12 in 2019. I also think he's better at this point and was more NFL ready. But Gary was/is also playing behind Z and Preston. That has to be taken into account when comparing them statistically. 

Gary is at almost 400 snaps this year. He's playing 3rd man snaps and consequently catching a ton of pressure package snaps proportionally. 

Burns is at like 750. 

Burns is killing Gary both on overall stats and per snap production. 

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21 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

I definitely do wish we took Burns, but I do get the Gary pick. As far as alignments go, you can only really use Burns off the edge (250/6'5''). The fanbase here has definitely understated Gary's position flexibility in that you can line Gary up inside on passing downs, etc. Unfortnately Gary hasn't been great against the run, which you'd think with his size he'd excel.

Burns, right now, is a much, much better pass rusher.  He's even quicker and more explosive than Gary, with some unreal bend to him.  That will be his game for years.

Gary has the size/power advantage.  And it makes him more versatile, and maybe could be better overall player.

But Burns has special talent for rushing the passer.  Moreso than Gary, and he has some special traits as well.

If I were to venture a guess...I'd say that Burns is going to level off in his play in the next year or two.  He will be what he will be, and it will be very good screaming the edge.  He will be a difference maker there.

My guess is that Gary is going to keep evolving and getting better for many more years.  With his power and size, his game is going to evolve even farther.  Maybe he won't be a threat for a strip sack on every play, but he should play across the line and be very good everywhere.

I'm not unhappy with the Gary pick, he is improved and improving.  Just giving some props to Burns.  

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21 hours ago, Leader said:

Is Burns actually 250#  I thought coming out of college his detractors cited that as a potential problem - he was deemed light and/or unable to put on and maintain the weight necessary in the NFL. I'm pretty sure he wasnt 250 when he was drafted. Perhaps he's bulked up.

Going from memory here...I think he was 250 or 255 at the Combine.  And almost immediately after, he was down to about 235-240.  He looked light 240ish to me when we played.  And he could bend like a snake.  

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18 hours ago, Arthur Penske said:

I like and wanted Burns at 12 in 2019. I also think he's better at this point and was more NFL ready. But Gary was/is also playing behind Z and Preston. That has to be taken into account when comparing them statistically. 

I get it, Gary playing behind P and Z.  When I checked stats, I didn't see snaps, which is huge, but Burns only started two games as a rookie.

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1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Going from memory here...I think he was 250 or 255 at the Combine.  And almost immediately after, he was down to about 235-240.  He looked light 240ish to me when we played.  And he could bend like a snake.  

Agree. I remember the combine weight matter - but it was written off as "fake weight" to enhance his draft status and unlikely......or questioned....whether he'd be able to maintain it.  Regardless - he's making his way in the NFL. If I was a CAR fan....I'd have no complaint with his contribution and promise.

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Gary seems to be doing a lot of little things that don't show up in the box score. If there's one player on defense that has been consistently in the backfield this season it's Gary. Sure, Z obviously shows up, but it seems like every time you turn around Gary is in the backfield trying to bat down passes or tying up at least 2 OL.

We don't follow Burns as closely obviously so we can't make the argument that Burns does or does not show up in other, non-box score ways shall we say.

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I will never judge the Gary pick.

Ever.

Sign two big name EDGE players for him to learn behind and be 23 years old once you cut the one that’s not performing to their contract.

Gary had the physical, he had the heart, he had the potential and the thinking was he needed time, but COULD put it together.  Two years and there’s clear and obvious improvement.  Just one year of him at his potential and nobody will judge the pick.

Same logic with the Perry pick.  Perry, thanks to that one year he was dominant and healthy, was worth his pick.  The error with Perry was re-signing him.

 

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17 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Gary is at almost 400 snaps this year. He's playing 3rd man snaps and consequently catching a ton of pressure package snaps proportionally. 

Burns is at like 750. 

Burns is killing Gary both on overall stats and per snap production. 

Ya that's probably why I clearly stated, I like Burns more and wanted him.

Snaps were more referring to rookie season, where Burns had nearly double Gary's. That's not to say that's to be held against burns because he probably played well enough to get those snaps while Gary didn't/ played behind two good vets. Just something to factor into production.

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