1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[vegas492]

38 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Ya that's probably why I clearly stated, I like Burns more and wanted him.

Snaps were more referring to rookie season, where Burns had nearly double Gary's. That's not to say that's to be held against burns because he probably played well enough to get those snaps while Gary didn't/ played behind two good vets. Just something to factor into production.

He didn't just play behind the Smiths.  He (Gary) also played behind Fackrell.  There were 3 guys in front of Gary.  We.  Must.  Remember.  Fackrell.

[AlexGreen#20]

So I will say this about Brian Burns. Marcedes Lewis spent the majority of the 2nd quarter hunting him down and beating him like a mule in the run game. Gary might not bring the same pressure, but he at least doesn't get physically whipped too often. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by AlexGreen#20

[vegas492]

12 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So I will say this about Brian Burns. Marcedes Lewis spent the majority of the 2nd quarter hunting him down and beating him like a mule in the run game. Gary might not bring the same pressure, but he at least doesn't get physically whipped too often. 

I'll say this about Burns.  He got the better of Bakhtiari on more than a few occasions.  You can't say that about too many guys in the league.

For what Burns doesn't have against the run, he more than has it as a pure pass rusher.

Agree that Gary may not have that pressure aspect like Burns, yet, but he is more physical and has a good chance to be the better total player. 

[AlexGreen#20]

25 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I'll say this about Burns.  He got the better of Bakhtiari on more than a few occasions.  You can't say that about too many guys in the league.

For what Burns doesn't have against the run, he more than has it as a pure pass rusher.

Agree that Gary may not have that pressure aspect like Burns, yet, but he is more physical and has a good chance to be the better total player. 

Not gonna lie, didn't really observe Burns beating Bakhtiari much. 

[vegas492]

5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Not gonna lie, didn't really observe Burns beating Bakhtiari much. 

I remember two plays when Burns went wide and got under Bakh pretty quick.  I was surprised because usually when little dudes try that, he slides to them and throws them to the ground, and if they try to get up, he falls on them.  I came away from the game thinking Burns got fed his lunch on running plays, but got most of it back in the pass rush.  And that surprised me.  Burns closing speed really impressed me, too.  Though, if compared to Gary (on his sack two weeks ago), I'd have to say that the closing speed for both is very similar and very impressive.

And I'm taking nothing away from Gary.  I like what he has done and is doing.  But as a guy with a draft crush on Burns, I do like seeing him play on occasion.

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

And I'm taking nothing away from Gary.  I like what he has done and is doing.  But as a guy with a draft crush on Burns, I do like seeing him play on occasion.

My crush was Simmons. I get to see him this weekend. I wonder if our D would be better w/ Simmons instead of Gary this season.

[vegas492]

12 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Not gonna lie, didn't really observe Burns beating Bakhtiari much. 

And...I'm kindda full of **** here.  I just re-watched Burns two sacks.  He didn't really beat Bakh.  Rogers rolled out right into him.  Bakh was fine.  

On another sack, it looked like the RT blocked down, tight end chipped Burns and let him go free at Rodgers.  Burns closed so quick, the TE didn't get out into the route for Rodgers to feed him the ball.

Maybe there were other "pressure" plays that Burns "got" Bakhtiari, but it wasn't really on those two sacks.

[vegas492]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

My crush was Simmons. I get to see him this weekend. I wonder if our D would be better w/ Simmons instead of Gary this season.

I get it.  Watching draft crushes is fun.  Hard to argue against a quality IDL versus a third EDGE for us.

And even when Simmons plays well, I'll still be happy with the Gary pick.

And I like how Savage is playing and being used now.  I think it is scary how good Savage can be.  To me, he's ahead of the safety curve that Sharper and Collins were on.

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Not gonna lie, didn't really observe Burns beating Bakhtiari much. 

The 2nd sack that's hands to the face on Brown, Burns smokes Bakh with a dip if I recall. Bakh swings on the punch and misses completely. Forces Rodgers up into the pocket and into the waiting arms of Brown.

This is total off memory though, could be wrong.

[MrBobGray]

17 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So I will say this about Brian Burns. Marcedes Lewis spent the majority of the 2nd quarter hunting him down and beating him like a mule in the run game. Gary might not bring the same pressure, but he at least doesn't get physically whipped too often. 

To be fair, there's not a large list of players in the NFL Lewis can't beat like a mule in the run game.  Granted, if you're taking an OLB at #12 he better be one of em, but still.

[AlexGreen#20]

3 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

To be fair, there's not a large list of players in the NFL Lewis can't beat like a mule in the run game.  Granted, if you're taking an OLB at #12 he better be one of em, but still.

There are plenty of DEs and OLBs that Lewis isn't going to reach regularly. It's one thing to stale mate, it's another thing to be actively moving to his side and then beating him across his face. 

[MrBobGray]

2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

There are plenty of DEs and OLBs that Lewis isn't going to reach regularly. It's one thing to stale mate, it's another thing to be actively moving to his side and then beating him across his face. 

[Donzo]

On 12/21/2020 at 11:07 AM, vegas492 said:

 

Label me as really impressed with Brian Burns.  Last year as a rookie....25 combination tackles.  19 solo.  7.5 sacks.  5 tackles for loss.  16 QB hits.

This year so far....56 combination tackles.  33 solo.  8 sacks.  7 tackles for loss.  20 QB hits.

Gary.

Rookie year.  21 combination tackles.  13 solo.  2 sacks.  3 tackles for loss.  3 QB hits. This year so far....24 combination tackles.  13 solo.  5 sacks.  4 tackles for loss.  11 QB hits.

I'm not sure about snap counts between the two.  

My eye ball tests tells me that right now (which is key), Burns is a better pass rusher than Gary.  Gary's career sack total is still under where Burns was as a rookie.

The Gary/Burns comparisons are awful. Huge apples to oranges thing... It's pretty convenient not to factor in snap counts- lol.

Burns was a ready edge player coming out of college. He's doing the exact same stuff he did at in HS and FSU that he's doing in Carolina. His spin-O-rama and side step rushes are what he's been doing for like seven years now. He's close to being maxed out.

Gary is a big athlete learning how to play in space and the edge. He's just touching his potential.... Gary's value is in his potential.  If drafting potential with the 12th pick gets someone's panty's in wad, so be it. But, that doesn't discount the value of Gary's potential.

[vegas492]

On 12/26/2020 at 8:59 PM, Donzo said:

The Gary/Burns comparisons are awful. Huge apples to oranges thing... It's pretty convenient not to factor in snap counts- lol.

Burns was a ready edge player coming out of college. He's doing the exact same stuff he did at in HS and FSU that he's doing in Carolina. His spin-O-rama and side step rushes are what he's been doing for like seven years now. He's close to being maxed out.

Gary is a big athlete learning how to play in space and the edge. He's just touching his potential.... Gary's value is in his potential.  If drafting potential with the 12th pick gets someone's panty's in wad, so be it. But, that doesn't discount the value of Gary's potential.

I never, ever, discounted Gary's potential.

And I didn't view Burns as a "finished" product coming out.  He was and still is, light.  Guess I felt like if you wanted a guy to scream the edge (which I like), he was a great guy to take, add weight and teach how to anchor against the run.  I still feel that way about him.  And Burns is still the better pure pass rusher.

That being said...it look me a long time to watch the Titans game.  I kept rewinding when they ran at Gary.  He was so impressive in how he set the edge, threw a blocker and made a tackle.  It was textbook.  And there are few guys that big that can disengage that quickly and still be quick twitch enough to make the play instead of just funneling it inside.

I thought that this was BY FAR the best game Gary has every played.  He was amazing.  And he was consistent.

And this game highlighted the differences between Burns and Gary.  Gary is oh so much better in the run/power game.  More versatile.  And the scary thing is, I still feel like he's just scratching the surface of his potential. 

[Donzo]

51 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I never, ever, discounted Gary's potential.

Yeah, I wasn't calling you out on anything. I was just pointing out there were a lot of mouth breathers here ranting about his early production when he was  drafted as a developmental prospect.