1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[packfanfb]

4 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I do think one of the biggest challenges for Joe Barry this year is going to be figuring out how to get all three of Smith, Smith and Gary on the field together with some regularity.  All three of those guys are in the best 11 on defense, so every snap you have one of them off the field you're losing effectiveness.  Yeah, obviously you need some level of rotation to keep those guys fresh, you want your edge guys playing with explosiveness, but it's not at all unreasonable to be aiming for 75% of snaps for all three.  You'll make up some of that in the pressure package, but it feels a bit like the key to the front seven this year is going to be finding ways to get Z lined up inside that don't compromise the run defense.  Idle nonsense musing thoughts of the morning are something like having Z heads up on the center, Clark in a 2i on one side, Slaton in a 4i on the other, and Gary and Preston wide.  Sort of force a 1v1 in the middle similar to an under front, but on the center rather than the guard.  Lot of slanting and stunt possibilities there, and Z can and has blown up a lot of plays coming through the center.  

If Barry follows the Staley path and plays a lot of 4i tech in the way LA did with undersized DL, I'd think the easiest path to playing all 3 on a consistent basis would be to expect to see a lot of Z in that 4i or 3 tech position with Gary/Smith on the edges. I think he'll be playing down (like he did a lot in Balt) more than he did in Pettine's scheme, where he often stood up even while playing inside. 

[packfanfb]

On 6/13/2021 at 2:02 AM, beekay414 said:

This is just one quote but I was one of the few in here defending the pick. Ball of clay. Kid wasn't the #1 player in his high school class for no reason. He's just now starting to "click" at the EDGE position and he's going to be a terror once it's all put together. Patience is virtue.

I loved the position pick, just was a Burns guy over Gary. Given their build, etc., I could easily see why Gute/Pettine wanted Gary. Glad to see that both are becoming good players. 

[Refugee]

6 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

If Barry follows the Staley path and plays a lot of 4i tech in the way LA did with undersized DL, I'd think the easiest path to playing all 3 on a consistent basis would be to expect to see a lot of Z in that 4i or 3 tech position with Gary/Smith on the edges. I think he'll be playing down (like he did a lot in Balt) more than he did in Pettine's scheme, where he often stood up even while playing inside. 

I see that, too. That is the most stacked room on the team and we need to maximize the impact we can have there. In Z’s interview he said Barry was going to let the rushers rush. We’ll see what really happens or if it has better results but hopefully fewer edge rushers dropping back and a more aggressive approach overall compared to Pet.

Z, P and Gary have enough size to play a bit more inside although hopefully not so much that they get ground up. I haven’t watched any tape of Preston’s year with Barry but I guess it was a good one.  Hope we can get him out there and making an impact. I think Z and Gary are going to terrorize opposing offenses. 

[R T]

41 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I mean, have you seen our ILB room? Not sure why this signing is getting talked about so much. It's a good move. Campbell isn't an all-star, which is why he got a whopping $1M in guarantees. Our ILB core currently consists of Barnes, Martin, Summers, Burks and some other training camp bodies. Summers and Burks are basically ST guys only, maybe Summers is at least playable on defense, but barely. So, we literally had 2 ILBs in that room who you'd be comfortable with playing on defense, both are 2nd year players, and Martin, while flashing at times last year, was very inconsistent. Again, it didn't have to be Campbell, but adding a journeyman to that room who's done it on a consistent basis for more than 1 season is a good thing. Be happy. 

When you actually grasp what I have written, get back with me at that time.  

[Joe]

On 6/14/2021 at 11:09 AM, R T said:

Another classic example of fans believe any player signed from another team is much better than the player they have. 

 

 

 

Zach Kruse

 

@zachkruse2

 

New #Packers LB De'Vondre Campbell has played in 75 career games, hasn't missed a game since 2016, has four straight seasons with 90+ tackles, and is a consistent tackler. PFF grades are not good. Has never received good grades against the run or in coverage.

 

 

 

 

Ross Uglem

 

@RossUglem

·

Jun 8

 

He is Antonio Morrison and Christian Kirksey. One-down LB and it’s.... fine.

I never said that at all, nor do I believe he's better than who we have. He's an excellent addition when it comes to depth and he'll be a great role player at a position with depth concerns.

[craig]

7 hours ago, R T said:

...Not for or against bringing in the player to compete,.... What I'm not crazy about is bringing in a marginal player and handing him the starting job, which is basically what they did when they paid that signing bonus. He should have to win the job, .... Iron sharpens iron, yet the Packers removed the competition in that position room before TC even started. Personally do not believe that is a good thing. 

The four ILB that dominated the snaps last year were Kirksey 53%, Barnes 41%, Martin 19%, and Summers 17%.  That's 130% composite.  Basically they used two ILB on 1/3 of the snaps, and single on 2/3.  

Random thoughts:  1.  Not sure the "starter" thing matters much in itself?  Often "starter" correlates to heavy-snaps-usage, so to say "starter" is a concise way to say "he'll dominate snaps".  I get that.  But not always? Starter snap #1 is always a first down, and often D's want to use have a run-contain package on snap #1, even if they don't play that a lot later?  I recall a game where a healthy AJ Hawk "started" and played the first snap, and then I think maybe only played 2 more snaps the rest of the game.  (Brandon Chillar era, maybe?). 

2nd, not sure what to draw from last year's snap distribution.  My first instinct is to say "Look, everybody got a bunch of snaps, *IF* Summers or Martin had looked good enough, they both had snaps enough to show it."  But, while kinda true, the snaps availability was significantly enabled by injury. When Kirksey was available, Martin really didn't get many snaps.  I'd love to see him get a lot of opportunity, AND for him to seize it and emerge as a very good player.  Think he's got a bunch of potential, and the talk about him last camp was awfully encouraging and gushy.  But yeah, part of me wonders whether he'll be defaulted to 3rd wheel, and might not get much chance unless Barnes or Campbell get hurt?   Still, as has been mentioned, Campbell hasn't been all that good.  *IF* Martin *IS* good and plays well, you'd hardly think he won't be able to win snaps away from Campbell, and/or Barnes.  Other thought is that ILB is an injury-prone position, and that Barnes seemed to be constantly hurt.  So proably will again be a bunch of opportunities.

3rd, if iron sharpens iron, adding an extra competitor might be an advantage?  Maybe that's exactly what Martin will need to bring out his best?  

4th, I wonder how many snaps ILB will get for Barry?  1.3 ILB/snap last year, might that shrink to 1.2?  Or might it perhaps expand to 1.4 or 1.5?  I'd assume for the latter to prove true, that the ILB who are getting snaps will need to look pretty productive to the Packers coaches.  

Will be interesting to see how that position group sorts itself out.  I sure didn't expect at this point last year that Kris Barnes was going to get >40% of the snaps, and could have been >50% had he been available more often.  So, who knows how the flow of camp and season will go?  

[MrBobGray]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:52 AM, packfanfb said:

If Barry follows the Staley path and plays a lot of 4i tech in the way LA did with undersized DL, I'd think the easiest path to playing all 3 on a consistent basis would be to expect to see a lot of Z in that 4i or 3 tech position with Gary/Smith on the edges. I think he'll be playing down (like he did a lot in Balt) more than he did in Pettine's scheme, where he often stood up even while playing inside. 

I just don't like Z playing inside in a traditional set-up.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I just hope they don't go that way; Z's a monster inside in the right set-up, but he's still the team's best edge rusher unless Gary can take that crown this year and banging in there 24/7 grinds you down.  If they play a five man front Smith/Z/Clark/Slaton/Gary then I'm fine with it; force the offense to give Z a 1v1 and that's a set-up I can get behind.  But Z is more over-sized edge guy than he is undersized IDL, and I think it's not the best use of the talent at hand playing him as a true IDL.  

 

[Joe]

On 6/17/2021 at 5:14 PM, MrBobGray said:

I just don't like Z playing inside in a traditional set-up.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I just hope they don't go that way; Z's a monster inside in the right set-up, but he's still the team's best edge rusher unless Gary can take that crown this year and banging in there 24/7 grinds you down.  If they play a five man front Smith/Z/Clark/Slaton/Gary then I'm fine with it; force the offense to give Z a 1v1 and that's a set-up I can get behind.  But Z is more over-sized edge guy than he is undersized IDL, and I think it's not the best use of the talent at hand playing him as a true IDL.  

 

I'd think that Gary would be the more likely candidate to play that 4i position given his size and style of play; perhaps Carlo Kemp is getting a tryout to fill that kind of role. More importantly, I think we can all agree that Z is at his best when he's rushing from a 2-point stance and choosing which gap to attack.

[vegas492]

16 hours ago, Joe said:

I'd think that Gary would be the more likely candidate to play that 4i position given his size and style of play; perhaps Carlo Kemp is getting a tryout to fill that kind of role. More importantly, I think we can all agree that Z is at his best when he's rushing from a 2-point stance and choosing which gap to attack.

I disagree, but only somewhat.

Z, to me, is at his best when he is used in multiple spots during different times of the game.

If you want your best pressure package out there, it's Z and Clark inside with P and Gary outside.  Plain and simple.  Z does a lot of damage inside with quickness in those sets.

P doesn't have that quickness.  Maybe Gary does.

But I like it when teams have to account for Z on obvious passing downs and adjust their blocking to where he is lining up.  It's always fun to watch him outquick and out handfight a guard inside.

[Old Guy]

12 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I disagree, but only somewhat.

Z, to me, is at his best when he is used in multiple spots during different times of the game.

If you want your best pressure package out there, it's Z and Clark inside with P and Gary outside.  Plain and simple.  Z does a lot of damage inside with quickness in those sets.

P doesn't have that quickness.  Maybe Gary does.

But I like it when teams have to account for Z on obvious passing downs and adjust their blocking to where he is lining up.  It's always fun to watch him outquick and out handfight a guard inside.

Have either Preston or Rashan worked much on the right side of the defense? Seems to me that both see the volume of their work on the left side of the defense. 

[vegas492]

12 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Have either Preston or Rashan worked much on the right side of the defense? Seems to me that both see the volume of their work on the left side of the defense. 

I do not have stats that will back up my "eyeball" test.

But, I seem to recall Preston getting the majority of the right side edge reps when Z slides in side.  I think Gary has been exclusively a left side player.

[vegas492]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rashan-gary-best-player-field-125213941.html

Typical "fluff" piece that usually comes out at the end of a camp.  But....still very encouraging.

[Old Guy]

28 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I do not have stats that will back up my "eyeball" test.

But, I seem to recall Preston getting the majority of the right side edge reps when Z slides in side.  I think Gary has been exclusively a left side player.

I don't remember tbh, regarding Preston.

[Old Guy]

9 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rashan-gary-best-player-field-125213941.html

Typical "fluff" piece that usually comes out at the end of a camp.  But....still very encouraging.

I'm expecting Gary to be a pro-bowler this year. I think he's going to be that good this year. 

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

I don't remember tbh, regarding Preston.

To be fair, he was largely forgettable last year.