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So what if Josh Rosen turns out to actually not be good & Kyler Murray becomes a star? Would teams in the future do the same?


ClutchDJ

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The only issue I have with the pick is how poorly the Cardinals handled the Rosen situation. Kyler Murray was the only transcendent talent in this draft and you have to take a chance on that if you're picking first.  And there's a very good chance that Rosen just isn't that good. He wasn't great at UCLA and he was pretty awful, even considering the circumstances surrounding the Cardinals roster, his rookie year. 

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I think that this particular situation in Arizona was brought on by in 2018 Arizona deciding to get a QB come hell or high water, refusing to support him at all or cater to his particular strengths or weaknesses, and completely botching the coaching hire.

Barring another situation where the owner, GM, and head coach are all not on the same page and are for the most part out of their depth, I don't know if we see a repeat of this.

Like a competent organization would have said "Rosen's big weakness is that he sees ghosts, so we need to pass block for him, how's our OL?" and then either fixed the OL or, having determined the OL was unfixable in the short term, not selected Rosen to begin with.

Edited by PossibleCabbage
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10 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I think that this particular situation in Arizona was brought on by in 2018 Arizona deciding to get a QB come hell or high water, refusing to support him at all or cater to his particular strengths or weaknesses, and completely botching the coaching hire.

Barring another situation where the owner, GM, and head coach are all not on the same page and are for the most part not out of their depth, I don't know if we see a repeat of this.

Like a competent organization would have said "Rosen's big weakness is that he sees ghosts, so we need to pass block for him, how's our OL?" and then either fixed the OL or, having determined the OL was unfixable in the short term, not selected Rosen to begin with.

Yeah, this was a pretty unique situation, so I don't think it'll have any kind of effect on teams in the future.  If you eliminate the whole first round thing, it's been done before.  Titans had a rookie QB in 2014 that everyone liked the potential of, but they took Mariota at 2 because he was a big upgrade.

Panthers before that, in 2010 drafted Jimmy Clausen in the second round, then took Cam first overall next year.  The only thing unique about the situation is that Rosen was a first rounder.  Teams will upgrade QBs when they have a chance.  That and new regimes often mean new QBs.

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19 hours ago, Daniel said:

Yeah, this was a pretty unique situation, so I don't think it'll have any kind of effect on teams in the future.  If you eliminate the whole first round thing, it's been done before.  Titans had a rookie QB in 2014 that everyone liked the potential of, but they took Mariota at 2 because he was a big upgrade.

Panthers before that, in 2010 drafted Jimmy Clausen in the second round, then took Cam first overall next year.  The only thing unique about the situation is that Rosen was a first rounder.  Teams will upgrade QBs when they have a chance.  That and new regimes often mean new QBs.

On the opposite spectrum, Jags have had questionable QBs in Leftwich, Gabbert, and Bortles and passed on future 1st round QBs.

If theres a guy there that is better than yours, take them.

The criticism with AZ is how they mishandled this whole deal.

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On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 7:24 AM, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah Murray’s value is elevated by KK’s scheme for sure.

I haven’t been paying close attention, is this actually true?  Or what’s being reported anyway?

 

No, Murray was 1-1 no matter the team. Would have been a trade likely if a non QB needy team ended up there. 

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Too much is being said about how poor Rosen was last season. The Cardinals offense was expansion level bad - nobody who started for them last year should have been an NFL starter (including Larry Fitzgerald, who is a first ballot HOF but is about 1-2 years past his expiration date). 

Last season should be a mulligan given the state of the Cardinals O. To complicate matters, it's not as if anything significanly improved - it's still a mess, only now it's being coached by a guy who was fired from Texas Tech last season. 

I can't tell the future, but I'm thinking Murray is going to put up similar (if not worse) numbers passing this season. His running will get some notice, at least.

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On 4/26/2019 at 3:37 PM, kramxel said:

What's the suggestion here? That teams should wiff more? 

This situation only happens because Rosen has been JaMarcus bad. 

You can't be serious.  Only Jamurcus was Jamarcus bad. Rosen wasn't even close. Only Leaf can really claim to be in the ballpark.

The misplaced hype on Murray is as ridiculous and hilarious as the misplaced dismissal of Rosen. Yeah, maybe Murray will be a star and maybe Rosen will continue to stink (how could he, wow look at all the stud players Miami has on offense!). But I wouldn't be the tiniest bit surprised if it was the other way around in the long run.

To answer the OP, no, teams don't and won't do this. It takes a special brand of stupid to pay dearly to move up in a draft to get your QB of the future and then give up on him because he didn't light it up his rookie year and draft ANOTHER QB with the overall #1 pick no less on a guy who is far from a sure thing for a variety of reasons. It starts at the top and they have a long-standing tradition of a fool for an owner.

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On 4/28/2019 at 1:33 PM, ttitansfan4life said:

I think the question should be what happens when Rosen turns out to be a better QB than Murray?

If that happens, all the Murray lovers and Rosen haters will be back to eat their share of well-earned crow.

lol yeah right!

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On 4/26/2019 at 12:19 PM, Danger said:

I don't think anyone doubts Kyler Murray's ability to play well, but rather just his ability to play period. It's not a matter of IF he gets hurt, but WHEN he gets hurt. He's so small, that it won't take much for him to be completely decimated. You can say he avoid's being hit all you want, but that was in college, defenders are way bigger, faster, and athletic in the NFL.

It’s hard to predict durability.  Rosen was banged up in college and missed time but didn’t miss a start his rookie year.  He’s taking a beating for three straight years between UCLA and Arizona.  A 21 year old kid should not have that much wear & tear and Wilks was a moron for playing him thru it.  Reason #346643 why he should’ve been fired and never hired in the first place.

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22 hours ago, ET80 said:

Too much is being said about how poor Rosen was last season. The Cardinals offense was expansion level bad - nobody who started for them last year should have been an NFL starter (including Larry Fitzgerald, who is a first ballot HOF but is about 1-2 years past his expiration date). 

Last season should be a mulligan given the state of the Cardinals O. To complicate matters, it's not as if anything significanly improved - it's still a mess, only now it's being coached by a guy who was fired from Texas Tech last season. 

I can't tell the future, but I'm thinking Murray is going to put up similar (if not worse) numbers passing this season. His running will get some notice, at least.

The WR corps are a lot better than what was thrown out there last year. The most predictable play-caller ever is no longer the OC, nor is the guy to give his most conservative input in Wilks is no longer the HC. The OLine is obviously not the best, but I doubt every single starter on that OLine gets put on IR like last year.

 

It would be an actually extremely incredible feat if Kyler put up a worse season than the horrific season Rosen put up last year. Then again, people are so hellbent on Rosen being good.

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