Rockcity2 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: 240-250 lbs, thick bodied, long arms, position versatile, experience in coverage and rushing the passer. Quinn has discussed this a couple times when discussing Tavai as the pick. Sounds hard to find... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Just now, Rockcity2 said: Sounds hard to find... The college game and even the NFL is starting to move towards smaller, faster guys. There are a ton of 230 lb LB's. Those guys will get manhandled playing outside against an OT on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: The college game and even the NFL is starting to move towards smaller, faster guys. There are a ton of 230 lb LB's. Those guys will get manhandled playing outside against an OT on a regular basis. Ya add a little weight and arms and your golden.. He's built more like montez sweat (besides height..) then the Bobby Wagner ur looking for.... And this franchise is sooo ahead of the game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Rockcity2 said: Ya add a little weight and arms and your golden.. He's built more like montez sweat (besides height..) then the Bobby Wagner ur looking for.... And this franchise is sooo ahead of the game I'm not saying this is a guarantee to work. It's just the way the Patriots try to do things - when the league zigs, they zag. When they zag, they zig. If the league is moving towards smaller, faster guys - there's a good chance that you can beat up on them and wear them down with bigger, more physical guys. Finesse teams tend to struggle with physical teams at both levels. There are only two guys that are 250 lbs + slated as Inside Linebackers that were in the draft- Jahlani Tavai and UDFA Tre Lamar. Both had brutal 40 times. Lamar had the 2nd best vert at the Clemson pro day at 253 lbs, which inclines me to say that he's explosive but doesn't have long speed. Tavai has 31 7/8 arms while Lamar has 32 1/4. Someone (it was one of the media guys on a podcast, can't remember who) mentioned Tavai's wingspan because he has a really wide back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I’m the first to admit I didn’t like this pick. I didn’t watch a single Hawaii game this year. Couldn’t find much about him either. Since the draft I’ve read a number of interesting articles (I don’t have links) that are very positive about the Lions taking him. These aren’t local articles. So I’m a bit more positive, I also value idogs assessment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 18 hours ago, detroitroar said: Do you just wander around looking to correct people? No I was reading through the thread and it caught my attention. It is in all Caps after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I'm starting to take a look towards 2020. You guys might be interested in this. With Quinn discussing the rarity of the types of players they need/want for their defense, I've been looking over the 2020 LB class. I just used the Fanspeak 2020 Big Board and this is far from a finished product. However, so far I've found only 4 guys who are over 240 lbs and another 4-5 guys who are at 240 lbs (all weights per ESPN player bio). Not one guy in this big board is at the 250 lb mark with the heaviest guy being 245. Some of these guys are still young and are Sophmore's going into their Junior year. So it's possible that by this time next year they'll have put on some weight. However, the bulk of these guys are sitting in the 230 lb range. I'm not sure how wise it is to run a system that is that particular where it's this difficult to find guys who fit. However, it does go to show that it isn't easy to find these guys and they have to take them when they're available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Karnage84 said: I'm starting to take a look towards 2020. You guys might be interested in this. With Quinn discussing the rarity of the types of players they need/want for their defense, I've been looking over the 2020 LB class. I just used the Fanspeak 2020 Big Board and this is far from a finished product. However, so far I've found only 4 guys who are over 240 lbs and another 4-5 guys who are at 240 lbs (all weights per ESPN player bio). Not one guy in this big board is at the 250 lb mark with the heaviest guy being 245. Some of these guys are still young and are Sophmore's going into their Junior year. So it's possible that by this time next year they'll have put on some weight. However, the bulk of these guys are sitting in the 230 lb range. I'm not sure how wise it is to run a system that is that particular where it's this difficult to find guys who fit. However, it does go to show that it isn't easy to find these guys and they have to take them when they're available. A 250 pound lb something to reach for... I'm not sure how this is so valued...to disregard so much stuff to draft this guy bc he basically weighs 20lbs more... Sure as hell don't see the logic in it..then you factor in position... him basically a one trick pony... but hey if weight is that important... no body can justify this pick but bob... this guy must have dreamy eyes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 11 hours ago, Rockcity2 said: A 250 pound lb something to reach for... I'm not sure how this is so valued...to disregard so much stuff to draft this guy bc he basically weighs 20lbs more... Sure as hell don't see the logic in it..then you factor in position... him basically a one trick pony... but hey if weight is that important... no body can justify this pick but bob... this guy must have dreamy eyes..... That's the point though - Tavai isn't a "one-trick pony". He has played multiple positions while at Hawaii. He's played inside, outside, rush, in coverage, etc. He has the size to handle pulling guards and work against a tackle while rushing the passer. The Lions are looking to be a "power" team as opposed to a finesse team on both sides of the ball. It can be detrimental if you go too far and neglect athleticism but you can wear out a smaller team and impose your will. This has happened countless times at the college level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 59 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: That's the point though - Tavai isn't a "one-trick pony". He has played multiple positions while at Hawaii. He's played inside, outside, rush, in coverage, etc. He has the size to handle pulling guards and work against a tackle while rushing the passer. The Lions are looking to be a "power" team as opposed to a finesse team on both sides of the ball. It can be detrimental if you go too far and neglect athleticism but you can wear out a smaller team and impose your will. This has happened countless times at the college level. A power d.. in a passing league..grrreat idea..this keeps getting better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Our lbs couldn't cover anyone then you draft another... but I bet your gonna tell me he's good at that too.. them powerhouse schools San Jose st...wtf He wouldn't have half the stats at a major Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Rockcity2 said: A power d.. in a passing league..grrreat idea..this keeps getting better... You stop the run and make the offense one dimensional. They'll likely run a ton of 3 CB/2 S or 2 CB/3 S looks which should be effective against the pass. If you have a guy that can cover against the run AND the pass, then you don't need to sub him as often and he is less likely to be targeted as a mismatch. The defense can only sub if the offense subs. If we have a guy in there who is one dimensional, he's going to be a key target for either option and we'll get exposed. This is one of the things that is being spoken about as a positive with Hockenson. The Lions want to run the ball more effectively and he should help in that part. On top of that, he should be an effective receiving option. If the defense has personnel in that is more inclined to stop the run then there could be opportunities opened up in the passing attack. While I do think that Fant is going to wind up being a better receiving option and be moved around more, his style of play would be less effective in this case. There's a reason that guys like Tarik Cohen aren't utilized as every down players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: You stop the run and make the offense one dimensional. They'll likely run a ton of 3 CB/2 S or 2 CB/3 S looks which should be effective against the pass. If you have a guy that can cover against the run AND the pass, then you don't need to sub him as often and he is less likely to be targeted as a mismatch. The defense can only sub if the offense subs. If we have a guy in there who is one dimensional, he's going to be a key target for either option and we'll get exposed. This is one of the things that is being spoken about as a positive with Hockenson. The Lions want to run the ball more effectively and he should help in that part. On top of that, he should be an effective receiving option. If the defense has personnel in that is more inclined to stop the run then there could be opportunities opened up in the passing attack. While I do think that Fant is going to wind up being a better receiving option and be moved around more, his style of play would be less effective in this case. There's a reason that guys like Tarik Cohen aren't utilized as every down players. Who's run game are we so worried about where we are reaching for lbs Are run d really hasn't been that big an issue.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: Our lbs couldn't cover anyone then you draft another... but I bet your gonna tell me he's good at that too.. them powerhouse schools San Jose st...wtf He wouldn't have half the stats at a major San Jose State AND San Diego State both had big TE's that were drafted guys in Oliver and Warring. I'm not saying that this is the SEC but there are some good players that come out of the Mountain West. Usually the roster has less talent and so the more talented guys have to do a lot more of the heavy lifting. The Lions saw what they wanted to see on tape and it sounds like they weren't the only ones who were ready to take him in round 2. This is the same reaction I would say 95% had when it came to the Golladay pick. Neither guy had these incredible athletic numbers that popped off the chart. They fit the profile of what they wanted and they knew that some other teams were very interested in the player and he wouldn't be available when they had their next pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Rockcity2 said: Who's run game are we so worried about where we are reaching for lbs Are run d really hasn't been that big an issue.... You're suggesting that we reached for him. The media sources have said that he wouldn't have been there in round 3. Miami is looking to run a similar defense with Flores there. The Patriots were picking two spots after us (took Joejuan Williams there). Patriots and Dolphins both had picks before us in round 3. So there were at least 3 opportunities between 2 other teams to take "their guy". So far, I can't find another guy that fits the profile in 2020. Some guys are close but not quite there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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