5[150]: Kinsley Keke [DL; Texas A&M]

[Joe]

10 hours ago, boratt said:

Keke looked quick with that double move there. Watching a little bit of him on YouTube, I didn’t think he looked special. 

He’s a big guy who’s flashed and has some short area athleticism that makes him intriguing on the next level. 

He seems better than the usual 5th round pick. Hopefully he finds a niche so he and Lowry can make moving on from Daniels painless. 

That's what you want out of your 5th round pick. Problem is that you need a bonafide starter along that DL and until Daniels is gone, we only have Clark. I don't think Lowry is starter material, but he's not a JAG either. If Keke turns out to be that starter, great; but we're probably looking to draft DL again next year with a bigger, pocket pusher type of guy that can absorb double teams to free up opportunities for Keke and our EDGE guys. Someone like a Javon Kinlaw or a Derrick Brown could work in the first or maybe a Rashard Lawrence on Day 2.

[Scoremore]

I agree.  With all the talent in this years draft it would have been nice to get another big on the DL.  Maybe this kid will turn out to be special.  Just never know.  Looked at some of his tape and I like him.  Quick off the line and has some moves.  He actually reminds me of Daniels quite  a bit. 

[TransientTexan]

On 5/12/2019 at 7:54 AM, Joe said:

That's what you want out of your 5th round pick. Problem is that you need a bonafide starter along that DL and until Daniels is gone, we only have Clark. I don't think Lowry is starter material, but he's not a JAG either. If Keke turns out to be that starter, great; but we're probably looking to draft DL again next year with a bigger, pocket pusher type of guy that can absorb double teams to free up opportunities for Keke and our EDGE guys. Someone like a Javon Kinlaw or a Derrick Brown could work in the first or maybe a Rashard Lawrence on Day 2.

It certainly is nice having a Daniels-caliber guy as your #2, but I don’t think it is a need. More of a luxury. You could get by with a guy like Lowry. There were 19 other teams in the NFL last year that did not have 2 interior DL that graded higher than him. 

Not to mention that some of the other guys like Adams and Lancaster showed some flashes last year. 

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, TransientTexan said:

You could get by with a guy like Lowry.

Some question of how often you'd want Lowry playing at 3-tech in place of Daniels.
I believe they did try Lowry inside ( 3-tech)  on some snaps last year- but there are posters here who are much better versed in this arena
I think this is how it looks right now with GB using 2 DL ( 1, 3) most often and 3 DL ( 1, 3, 5) on some downs

1-tech: Clark, Lancaster
3-tech: Daniels, M.Adams, Z. Smith, Gary, Keke
5-tech: Lowry, Fadol Brown, Keke, Looney

I'd guess that Keke Kingsley, Fadol Brown and Looney Tunes are battling to replace Lowry next year when he gets too expensive

[TransientTexan]

18 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Some question of how often you'd want Lowry playing at 3-tech in place of Daniels.
I believe they did try Lowry inside ( 3-tech)  on some snaps last year- but there are posters here who are much better versed in this arena
I think this is how it looks right now with GB using 2 DL ( 1, 3) most often and 3 DL ( 1, 3, 5) on some downs

1-tech: Clark, Lancaster
3-tech: Daniels, M.Adams, Z. Smith, Gary, Keke
5-tech: Lowry, Fadol Brown, Keke, Looney

I'd guess that Keke Kingsley, Fadol Brown and Looney Tunes are battling to replace Lowry next year when he gets too expensive

I assume he filled some for Daniels. His snaps went up by about 15 per game after Daniels got hurt & put on IR.

[Joe]

9 hours ago, TransientTexan said:

It certainly is nice having a Daniels-caliber guy as your #2, but I don’t think it is a need. More of a luxury. You could get by with a guy like Lowry. There were 19 other teams in the NFL last year that did not have 2 interior DL that graded higher than him. 

Not to mention that some of the other guys like Adams and Lancaster showed some flashes last year. 

True, but unless one of those guys takes a major step forward, we're definitely going to be looking DL early. Pettine likes DL that can cause pressure, even if their sack numbers aren't all too great.

[boratt]

PFF DL grades for 2018

 

Montravius Adams - 69.3 above average

Mike Daniels - 71.3 above average

Dean Lowry - 73.8 above average

Tyler Lancaster - 77.5 above average

Kenny Clark - 90.5 high quality

 

Lancaster only played 25% of snaps so his fatigue being down and health being up probably skewed his grade. Still, that’s a good group of DL. I’d definitely be looking to extend Lowry right now. Also Blake Martinez, but that’s a different topic. 

Gotta think Adams will take one more step forward this year and beat out the rookie for playing time. Same for Lancaster. Dude played well. Even if he was a 4th round pick we’d be happy. 

I don’t think we’ll see much of keke this year, but next year when Daniels is gone, keke is gonna have a wide open shot to work into the interior pass rush rotation. I guess a somewhat ideal situation would be for keke to get bigger, faster, stronger for most of the year and then fill in for injury late in the season when he’s got fresh legs against beat up OL. He might look pretty good out of the gate if that happens.

Pettine has a bunch of workable pieces. I’m excited for keke and Lancaster and maybe even Adams too.

Edited May 20, 2019 by boratt

[MrBobGray]

I wish I had the faith in Keke the rest of you seem to.  Being honest, from his tape he seems like the quintessential "all the tools, none of the talent" late round DL pick that never turns out.  He can do so many things, but he rarely does them in game.  He's the type who lights up the 1 on 1 pass rushing drill and everyone starts projecting him to the Pro Bowl right before he gets 12 snaps on the season.

At this moment the Packers DL is basically Kenny and a grab bag of random stuff.  I love Daniels but age and injuries have caught up to him a bit and once his feet goes he's going to absolutely tumble off a cliff.  Lancaster is a stud as long as you're running at him, but doesn't offer much other than that.  Lowry is more or less the same player he's been since his rookie year which is disappointing but usable.  Of them all, Adams is the one real question mark.  Adams has pretty good tools in the belt and he plays hard, but the game still hasn't slowed down for him.  He basically red-shirted his rookie year so that's not a true red flag yet, but this has to be his year.  If he doesn't take that jump then it's probably time to move on and the Packers have a real problem with their DL depth.

[AlexGreen#20]

On 5/20/2019 at 12:53 PM, MrBobGray said:

I wish I had the faith in Keke the rest of you seem to.  Being honest, from his tape he seems like the quintessential "all the tools, none of the talent" late round DL pick that never turns out.  He can do so many things, but he rarely does them in game.  He's the type who lights up the 1 on 1 pass rushing drill and everyone starts projecting him to the Pro Bowl right before he gets 12 snaps on the season.

At this moment the Packers DL is basically Kenny and a grab bag of random stuff.  I love Daniels but age and injuries have caught up to him a bit and once his feet goes he's going to absolutely tumble off a cliff.  Lancaster is a stud as long as you're running at him, but doesn't offer much other than that.  Lowry is more or less the same player he's been since his rookie year which is disappointing but usable.  Of them all, Adams is the one real question mark.  Adams has pretty good tools in the belt and he plays hard, but the game still hasn't slowed down for him.  He basically red-shirted his rookie year so that's not a true red flag yet, but this has to be his year.  If he doesn't take that jump then it's probably time to move on and the Packers have a real problem with their DL depth.

Agree with all of that except for Lowry. I think Lowry has turned himself into a guy you're comfortable with playing to a draw most downs. Not an exciting player, but lord knows every team needs them, especially off the bench. And he's always healthy.

[TransientTexan]

On 5/20/2019 at 1:53 PM, MrBobGray said:

I wish I had the faith in Keke the rest of you seem to.  Being honest, from his tape he seems like the quintessential "all the tools, none of the talent" late round DL pick that never turns out.  He can do so many things, but he rarely does them in game.  He's the type who lights up the 1 on 1 pass rushing drill and everyone starts projecting him to the Pro Bowl right before he gets 12 snaps on the season.

At this moment the Packers DL is basically Kenny and a grab bag of random stuff.  I love Daniels but age and injuries have caught up to him a bit and once his feet goes he's going to absolutely tumble off a cliff.  Lancaster is a stud as long as you're running at him, but doesn't offer much other than that.  Lowry is more or less the same player he's been since his rookie year which is disappointing but usable.  Of them all, Adams is the one real question mark.  Adams has pretty good tools in the belt and he plays hard, but the game still hasn't slowed down for him.  He basically red-shirted his rookie year so that's not a true red flag yet, but this has to be his year.  If he doesn't take that jump then it's probably time to move on and the Packers have a real problem with their DL depth.

Which teams would you say have a better DL than Green Bay?

[Donzo]

On 5/20/2019 at 1:53 PM, MrBobGray said:

I wish I had the faith in Keke the rest of you seem to.  Being honest, from his tape he seems like the quintessential "all the tools, none of the talent" late round DL pick that never turns out.  He can do so many things, but he rarely does them in game.  He's the type who lights up the 1 on 1 pass rushing drill and everyone starts projecting him to the Pro Bowl right before he gets 12 snaps on the season.

At this moment the Packers DL is basically Kenny and a grab bag of random stuff. 

I love Daniels but age and injuries have caught up to him a bit and once his feet goes he's going to absolutely tumble off a cliff. 

Lancaster is a stud as long as you're running at him, but doesn't offer much other than that. 

Lowry is more or less the same player he's been since his rookie year which is disappointing but usable.  

Adams has pretty good tools in the belt and he plays hard, but the game still hasn't slowed down for him.  He basically red-shirted his rookie year so that's not a true red flag yet, but this has to be his year.

Wow, that is a bunch of inaccurate info topped off with some extremely negative projections.

The Lowry analysis is straight out silly.

 

[deathstar]

43 minutes ago, Donzo said:

Wow, that is a bunch of inaccurate info topped off with some extremely negative projections.

The Lowry analysis is straight out silly.

 

You could make a better point by posting why you believe the information is inaccurate or silly.

[Donzo]

29 minutes ago, deathstar said:

You could make a better point by posting why you believe the information is inaccurate or silly.

No need... I  just responded to a poster making unsubstantiated claims.  

[MrBobGray]

10 minutes ago, Donzo said:

No need... I  just responded to a poster making unsubstantiated claims.  

I'd honestly be interested to hear your breakdown. If you really see no need, I'm not sure what you're doing on this board at all. 

[MrBobGray]

3 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Agree with all of that except for Lowry. I think Lowry has turned himself into a guy you're comfortable with playing to a draw most downs. Not an exciting player, but lord knows every team needs them, especially off the bench. And he's always healthy.

I'll be honest, to me that's the same player Lowry has been since 2016. He's a better version of that player, sure, but it's basically the same guy. He can play the run toward him but you don't want him anchoring a double team. He can play the run away from him but he won't be running anyone down from behind. He's got a bull rush and he can slip it from time to time when you need him rushing. He can do whatever you need him to but he's not special at any of it. That's what Lowry is and has always been to me. A tough guy with good hands and ok feet who's going to give you everything. You can win with him and he's definitely a useful piece, but he's not a guy I see getting a second contract. 

I didn't mean to imply I don't like him; I'm glad Green Bay has him, and you're right that every team needs those guys. It's just that he started faster than expected but has improved slower than expected.