2019 Draft Recap

[Humble_Beast]

 

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

9 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

imagine this draft with Bosa instead of Ferrell... I'm trying to convince myself Ferrell Is a better player

He might be. They haven't played once snap in the NFL yet to determine this.

[Chwf3rd25]

3 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

There's something Eisen said a few times throughout the draft that made a lot of sense to me. Everyone used to take Mayock's opinions to heart when on NFLN and considered him the best draft analyst out there. If he was still doing the show and banging the table for Ferrell, people would be loving the pick at #4 and not doubting the Raiders at all. Now since he is the one actually making the picks, people are doubting him hard and calling the pick horrible.

It's so funny to see people's opinions change. I think Ferrell is going to be great.

I saw others make this point and I think its a terrible point to make.  LOTS of people scout these players closely while Mayock was an analyst and after Mayock became our GM.  He's not a top 5 type of player, period.  If Mayock had him in his top 5 overall players as an analyst people would be questioning it because it would be a really odd ranking.  I really doubt Mayock actually evaluated Ferrell as a top 5 overall player in this draft - seems more likely that we locked in on Edge and Guenther didnt think Josh Allen fit the scheme.

[Chwf3rd25]

48 minutes ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

He might be. They haven't played once snap in the NFL yet to determine this.

And Maxx Crosby might be better than Nick Bosa by that logic too, right?  Don't get the point of saying this.  Its a given that these players haven't proven anything in the NFL yet but we've watched them for multiple years in college and can project what we think they can do.

[Trojan]

Anyone else see that Dwayne Haskins had a nude photo of his girlfriend as the background image of his phone that he was showing off to his family and the camera as he received the call from the Redskins? Like I get that it has no bearing on his football career, but that just seems like the kind of lack of awareness that makes me very happy we didn't draft.

On the topic of the players we ended up taking, I like all the prospects this year which I think is a first. Like I may not have selected many of them where they were taken, but I don't disagree with any of the selections and I don't think any would have made it to the next Raiders pick which is a good sign.

Clelin Ferrell I think would have entered draft boards around pick 8 with the Lions, and would have been a significant threat to go to GB, MIA, CAR or NYG at 17. To leap into that group likely would have cost 24 and 35 to get him and I prefer the four we ended up with over Ed Oliver, Clelin Ferrel and Johnathan Abram. Still would have been nice to extort a 3rd out of TB, NYG, JAX, or the Bills first, but maybe there wasn't that option.

Josh Jacobs is our clear starter and I for one am happy he has low college usage, Alvin Kamara had the same knock spliting carries with that large RB who I forgot the name and wasn't the "college starter". I like that our front office saw the actual rare abilities of Josh Jacobs to transition from a variety of moves, and took him before Baltimore had a shot at him at 25. With Baltimore's affinity for Alabama and very very heavy run offense I think it would have been foolish to target Jacobs at 27, especially after the Ravens already got trade down value.

Johnathan Abram is someone I think will transform our defense, especially with our second round pick Trayvon Mullen. These two have enough coverage ability to disguise exotic blitz packages that I think will supplement our DL for sacks. If you peak at last years stats, Mike Zimmer's defense (Paul Gunther same coaching tree) had Mackensie Alexander ending up with 4 sacks while Harrison Smith had 3 sacks.

Maxx Crosby and Isiah Johnson I feel like won't be asked to contribute immediately, but have the tools to develop into front line starters, which is one of two things you should expect from a fourth round pick: either safe depth, or developmental starter potential. A 6'2 33" arm CB with 4.40 speed with WR background is that developmental "I want a Sherman" type pick, and the leap from Houston to the pros should expose him to the coaching he needs to become that starter potential. Maxx Crosby I feel like is also developmental, but additionally could fill out his frame more. He isn't small, but I feel like he could grow to 270 or so with additional weight room work and his effort and willingness to string moves together are promising.

Foster Moreau and Hunter Renfrow I think we landed two starters in the mid rounds. Foster Moreau, I feel like, is starter ready now as likely the second best blocking TE on our squad, and after Luke Wilson, likely our best pass receiver in the group -- although LSU does not often feature TEs in that manner. Moreau's ability to pull and stun in run blocking like a mobile full back will be a nice compliment to Josh Jacobs. Additionally I like his timing and effectiveness in chip and roll out players where he moves a speed rusher more centerally onto the tackle before rolling out as an underneath route. When he runs a route without blocking assignments, he seems to have a good feel for zone concepts and adjusts to a gap as the play breaks down while maintaining eye contact with the QB.

Finally Quinton Bell looks like a beast athletically, where was he 240 by the time the college season started and he transitioned to DE. The reported weight by NFL network of 220 was from his receiving days. That means his athletic testing numbers, which were an off the charts with a 4.38 40, 41.5" vertical, 7.09 cone, and 4.31 shuttle finished with a 23 bench reps of 225 and 11'4" broad jump. For comparison, Montez Sweat was 4.41 40, 36" vertical, 7.0 cone, 4.29 shuttle finished with 21 bench reps of 225 and 10'5" broad jump. Not comparing him to Sweat as a player because obviously haven't watched Prairie View, but Sweat's combine numbers were freakish and Bell is only 20 or so pounds lighter, not 40 or so that was reported when he was drafted. Looking at the guy, it's obvious this isn't bad weight he added.



For UDFA's I'm a fan of Alec Ingold and I think he is exactly the type of do it all FB Jon Gruden will love. Another one I think will have a real shot at the 53 man roster is TreVon Coney, who along with a number of other LBers in this draft class could have been selected from the 4th round on down with little to no complaints.

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

imagine this draft with Bosa instead of Ferrell... I'm trying to convince myself Ferrell Is a better player

Shouldn't be too hard to convince yourself Ferrell is better since you were yelling how overrated Bosa was. Now you want to imagine us taking overrated Bosa  when he was already gone anyway. 

[Chali21]

27 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

I saw others make this point and I think its a terrible point to make.  LOTS of people scout these players closely while Mayock was an analyst and after Mayock became our GM.  He's not a top 5 type of player, period.  If Mayock had him in his top 5 overall players as an analyst people would be questioning it because it would be a really odd ranking.  I really doubt Mayock actually evaluated Ferrell as a top 5 overall player in this draft - seems more likely that we locked in on Edge and Guenther didnt think Josh Allen fit the scheme.

It’s his evaluation, in 2011 the Texans took JJ Watt with the 11th pick, if the Bills took him instead of Dareus at 3 people would have said it was a reach and torched them.  The bottom line is that people think it’s a reach now based on projections. If Ferrell comes in and plays at a high level no one will care and everyone will call Mayock a genius. Personally i was hoping to get Ferrell because of his fit on the team, to be honest i don’t care where or when they draft their guys as long as they get them. They obviously felt that they might not get their guy if they waited so they took him. 

[Chali21]

I think this draft class was pretty good overall. Much better than last years and it seems the draft philosophy is similar to mine:

When you have a lack of talent on your team take high floor guys over high ceiling players early. In the later rounds pick up athletes that you can stash and coach up. 

The first 2 rounds they took 4 guys who can come in and start day one which is way better than last years 2 project players taken in the first two rounds. The Raiders didn’t just get guys they got guys who can play and be impactful. 

The only pick i didn’t really like was Abrams, because he’s what the Raiders already have in Joseph. If he was bigger I’d be more in favor of it but as it stands now TEs are still going to be an area of weakness for the defense which is troubling because of the talented TEs in the division. 

[Chwf3rd25]

57 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

It’s his evaluation, in 2011 the Texans took JJ Watt with the 11th pick, if the Bills took him instead of Dareus at 3 people would have said it was a reach and torched them.  The bottom line is that people think it’s a reach now based on projections. If Ferrell comes in and plays at a high level no one will care and everyone will call Mayock a genius. Personally i was hoping to get Ferrell because of his fit on the team, to be honest i don’t care where or when they draft their guys as long as they get them. They obviously felt that they might not get their guy if they waited so they took him. 

Yes people are wrong on their projections of college players all the time.  So what?  Doesn't mean we can't form our own opinions on players and criticize our selections while still accepting the caveat that we could be wrong - just like Mayock and Gruden could be wrong.

This same stuff happens every single year with the tribalism.  You can be a Raiders fan and root for the players while criticizing the decisions at the same time.  Even last year this exact same thing happened after we spend out first three picks on Kolton Miller, PJ Hall, and Brandon Parker.

Maybe if we were the Patriots with Belichek I could understand giving this kind of deference .

[Roninho]

2 hours ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

I saw others make this point and I think its a terrible point to make.  LOTS of people scout these players closely while Mayock was an analyst and after Mayock became our GM.  He's not a top 5 type of player, period.  If Mayock had him in his top 5 overall players as an analyst people would be questioning it because it would be a really odd ranking.  I really doubt Mayock actually evaluated Ferrell as a top 5 overall player in this draft - seems more likely that we locked in on Edge and Guenther didnt think Josh Allen fit the scheme.

Funny how your opinion is fact, and Mayocks opinion is just a mistake

[Chwf3rd25]

22 minutes ago, Roninho said:

Funny how your opinion is fact, and Mayocks opinion is just a mistake

I can't think of a single person that had Ferrell as a top 5 overall player in this draft, and I seriously doubt Mayock had him in his top 5 overall as well or else he wouldn't have traded down to 13 to draft Ferrell in the mock simulations he ran this week.  To me, this seemed like we locked in on drafting Edge at 4 and drafted off the horizontal board instead of the vertical board.  Not my style of drafting at all and I think it bites you in the *** in the long run (see Kolton Miller vs Derwin James last year).

Also I dont get this deference shown to our team's decisions year after year.  How has anyone earned that?  The tribalism shown post draft is really gross - you can be a Raiders fan and root for the draft picks (and these players are especially easy to root for) while also criticizing the decisions.

[true2form]

5 hours ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

I can't think of a single person that had Ferrell as a top 5 overall player in this draft, and I seriously doubt Mayock had him in his top 5 overall as well or else he wouldn't have traded down to 13 to draft Ferrell in the mock simulations he ran this week.  To me, this seemed like we locked in on drafting Edge at 4 and drafted off the horizontal board instead of the vertical board.  Not my style of drafting at all and I think it bites you in the *** in the long run (see Kolton Miller vs Derwin James last year).

Also I dont get this deference shown to our team's decisions year after year.  How has anyone earned that?  The tribalism shown post draft is really gross - you can be a Raiders fan and root for the draft picks (and these players are especially easy to root for) while also criticizing the decisions.

You can also understand the decisions made and why they were made without getting all negative about them. You think we picked for need? Damn right we did. So what? 

You can say we are blind homers, but I can just as easily say you're influenced too much by the media, mock drafts, and the so called mythical "value" that everyone speaks of. You don't know that they didn't try to trade down. You don't know where other teams had Ferrell ranked. None of us know what would have happened if we had picked someone else or found a trade partner.

Stop acting like the so called experts who think everything would have worked out fine if we had just done x.

[Chwf3rd25]

26 minutes ago, true2form said:

You can also understand the decisions made and why they were made without getting all negative about them. You think we picked for need? Damn right we did. So what? 

You can say we are blind homers, but I can just as easily say you're influenced too much by the media, mock drafts, and the so called mythical "value" that everyone speaks of. You don't know that they didn't try to trade down. You don't know where other teams had Ferrell ranked. None of us know what would have happened if we had picked someone else or found a trade partner.

Stop acting like the so called experts who think everything would have worked out fine if we had just done x.

I watch the players myself, not relying on experts.  The conversation wouldn’t go anywhere if I just said “he was my #22 overall player.”  I’m excited to root for Ferrell and he seems like a phenomenal guy, just think top 5 is way too rich.

[true2form]

2 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

I watch the players myself, not relying on experts.  The conversation wouldn’t go anywhere if I just said “he was my #22 overall player.”  I’m excited to root for Ferrell and he seems like a phenomenal guy, just think top 5 is way too rich.

Um ok. You literally just referenced everyone else not ranking him high. I'm a black and white kinda guy, say what you mean and mean what you say.

 

[Chwf3rd25]

16 minutes ago, true2form said:

Um ok. You literally just referenced everyone else not ranking him high. I'm a black and white kinda guy, say what you mean and mean what you say.

 

Well you can go into the Clelin Ferrell thread if you want my opinion on him as a player.  Generally in my experience saying “I had player X ranked here” doesn’t go over too well.