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johndeere1707

Draft Grades and Thoughts?

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Just now, TheVillain112 said:

Definitely optimistic, that's his ceiling.  But I would say his floor is higher than Jesse James.  Drew Sample tested as an elite athlete at the position...

Elite? Nah. Very good? I'd say so. I think his RAS was somewhere around 8.8. 

Rashan Gary, who no one would dispute isn't an elite athlete, graded out as a 9.95.

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7 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Elite? Nah. Very good? I'd say so. I think his RAS was somewhere around 8.8. 

Rashan Gary, who no one would dispute isn't an elite athlete, graded out as a 9.95.

Above 9 is Elite for RAS:

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Jesse James for comparison was in the 7's for RAS...

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Taking a blocking TE in the 2nd was a mistake. We should have just signed Jesse James in free agency. He signed with Detroit for less than we're paying Uzomah. If we'd signed say Jesse and Juwan James in free agency instead of Uzomah, Hart, and Miller, we'd have about 2 mil less in cap space but could have taken Haskins in the draft. 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

Above 9 is Elite for RAS:

Over 100 players we graded above 9 in 2019. There aren't over 100 elite athletes in this class. But we're arguing semantics here.

Edited by SmittyBacall

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3 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Over 100 players we graded above 9 in 2019. There aren't over 100 elite athletes in this class. But we're arguing semantics here.

That's fair.  Either way, his athleticism does show when watching him.  He's got some explosiveness/yac ability, just was under utilized in Washington... 

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13 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Taking a blocking TE in the 2nd was a mistake. We should have just signed Jesse James in free agency. He signed with Detroit for less than we're paying Uzomah. If we'd signed say Jesse and Juwan James in free agency instead of Uzomah, Hart, and Miller, we'd have about 2 mil less in cap space but could have taken Haskins in the draft. 

People keep saying this, but the Bengals are clearly saying they're planning on using him as a receiver and blocker.  So that's not a fair assessment.

Maybe he was only utilized as a blocker in college, but that doesn't mean he can't be a receiver.  

You could rightly complain now that the Bengals should have used a 3rd round pick on George Kittle in 2017.  But at the time you would have complained that he wasn't worth a 3rd round pick because he was only a blocking TE.

I guess what i'm saying is - College production =/= pro production, especially at this particular position.  Colleges use TE's much differently than professional teams do, so you have to look beyond his usage.

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I loved the draft.  Was stung by missing my personal three picks at the time we were on the clock.... Bush taken one spot ahead of us, Risner taken one spot ahead of us, Brown taken one spot ahead of t=where we traded back to....  but I think we got who we wanted and filled needs while doing it.  Jonah is an immediate starter.  I get the hate being spewed about the Sample pick, but if the team is right about his impact, no one will remember this.  Pratt was always one of my top targets in free agency.  While I liked the potential ceiling of Tyree jackson, Finley seems like a Zac Taylor type of QB.  It's hard to put that into words, but the more I read and watched, the more I thought he'd be a target in this draft over everyone else.  I like the Jordan pick for it's versatility, as he has the size to move outside, but would clearly need extensive work.  I say that because I find it starnge that they didn't take another OT the rest of the way.  Wren is our typical Arizona State player, he has the tools, but never got the sound coaching he needed while there and thus dropped in the draft (Burfict, Hardison).  I think he rotates with Billings. The RBs added were phenominal.  Williams could be our futre Gio, and if Anderson stays healthy, he brings extreme value to a comp sixth pick spot.  I don't know anything about the CB, but he tested quite well and gets developed on the practice squad for a future role.

 

Overall: A-/B+  If Anderson contributes, that moves the grade up

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1 hour ago, theJ said:

People keep saying this, but the Bengals are clearly saying they're planning on using him as a receiver and blocker.  So that's not a fair assessment.

Maybe he was only utilized as a blocker in college, but that doesn't mean he can't be a receiver.  

You could rightly complain now that the Bengals should have used a 3rd round pick on George Kittle in 2017.  But at the time you would have complained that he wasn't worth a 3rd round pick because he was only a blocking TE.

I guess what i'm saying is - College production =/= pro production, especially at this particular position.  Colleges use TE's much differently than professional teams do, so you have to look beyond his usage.

Um, he's considered a blocking TE because he wasn't much of a pass catcher in college. If he was an NFL caliber receiving TE, his college would have thrown to him more. The issue isn't his hands or catch radius, it's that he isn't much of a route runner. 

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15 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Um, he's considered a blocking TE because he wasn't much of a pass catcher in college. If he was an NFL caliber receiving TE, his college would have thrown to him more. The issue isn't his hands or catch radius, it's that he isn't much of a route runner. 

So SF must have some magic in a bottle or something right, because otherwise George Kittle's college would have thrown to him more?  There are other examples too.  It's why you've seen numerous TE's go late in the draft and turn into stud receivers as soon as they hit the NFL.

The issue is that college's just don't throw to TE's much.  Their offenses just aren't predicated on getting pass production out of their TE's, generally.

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Just to name a few guys who had pretty pedestrian college stats.

Austin Hooper
Jared Cook
Kyle Rudolph
George Kittle
Jimmy Graham
Trey Burton

I left off a bunch of guys who only had a single year of production (Travis Kelce, Zach Ertz, Eric Ebron).

There are very few college TE's who put up decent numbers.  It's not purely a byproduct of their inability to play the position.  

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BTW, i had never heard of Drew Sample before Friday.  I have no particular horse in this race.  I just think it's lazy analysis to say he must not be any good because his college team didn't throw him the ball.

Anyone who's ever played or coached sports knows how incredibly difficult it is to A) distribute the one ball to a handful of guys who are worthy of it and B) figure out who's worthy in the first place.  It can be obvious when you have a talent like AJ Green, but there's a lot of muck in the middle, and until you give a guy a chance you don't really know for sure how it's going to work out.  Sample never really got that chance.

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I wonder how the draft would have played out if Pittsburgh didn't trade up...

My guess is Bush is the pick at 11, and we would have likely executed the rumored trade up to grab Taylor, Ford or Risner at the top of the 2nd - which would have likely cost a 3rd and any chance at Pratt or Sample. A draft in which I prefer to be honest.

Still happy with the Jonah pick though. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, theJ said:

You could rightly complain now that the Bengals should have used a 3rd round pick on George Kittle in 2017.  But at the time you would have complained that he wasn't worth a 3rd round pick because he was only a blocking TE.

George Kittle was selected 146th (5th round). Right in the range where these types of prospects tend to go based on their value as a prospect. I wouldn't be complaining if we took Sample in the 4th or 5th. Just not in the second with better value on the board.

Edited by SmittyBacall

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Or maybe,  due to the success of similar players,  drafting a player if that type now required an earlier pick. 

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21 minutes ago, Beck Bristow said:

Or maybe,  due to the success of similar players,  drafting a player if that type now required an earlier pick. 

Yeah that's what i was going to respond to @SmittyBacall with.  I think the success of some of those other players being drafted later is contributing the rise in guys like Sample being drafted earlier.  It's how these things tend to go.  

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