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Suffering_Bills

My top 3 best and worst drafts.

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18 hours ago, BayRaider said:

True point but getting four starters is easier said than done and getting the right scheme fits as well. For example, everyone seems to think we should of taken Josh Allen who is the worst scheme fit possible. Allen is a a pure 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 scheme that uses a standing edge. Allen relies on his agility to get around his defender and is not a power player by any means. He would not set a physical edge for the run as a 4-3 DE and does not have power in his pass rush to consistently get off his blocker. Only 15% or so of our forum actually wanted him. 

A few things:

- Let me tell you a little secret, a standing edge in a 4-3 is still a base end, the only difference is he's in a 2 point stance rather than in a 3 point stance

- Von Miller, Yannick Ngakoue, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Olivier Vernon, Frank Clark are just a few names of guys who've excelled in a 4-3 base after having the perception of a 3-4 personnel guy

- Scheme fit????,He played in the same "scheme" at UK, how all of the sudden "the worst scheme fit possible"?

- Would not set a physical edge = False narrative

- Does not have power?, have you seen this guy's physique?, to think he wouldn't be able to generate power at 6'5 265 (Who is an inch taller, equal weight, and did 3 more reps of 225) with his physical capabilities is asinine, if you question Allen, you should question Ferrell just the same. 

- I'm convinced your whole argument is just trying to convince yourself that Farrell is better than Allen to make yourself feel better, if that's so then admit it, but don't try to pass off false narratives and untrue factoids as truth.

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2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

7th round for a TE with prototypical size, very good athleticism, great character, good hands, and outstanding blocking ability? That seems low.

I don’t think he has “very good athleticism.” I think he’s a crappier Nick Boyle. Not into drafting Nick Boyle that early. 

 

There were so many better TE prospects that you guys passes on in favor of him which makes it worse IMO. But who the heck knows? Guess we’ll see. 

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11 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I don’t think he has “very good athleticism.”

D5Hx71nW0AEYKI5.png:large

An RAS of 9.02 out of 10 indicates well above average athleticism for the position. If that's not "very good" athleticism, how would you define it? He never really had the chance of putting it on display as a receiver at Washington for a few reasons - he's extremely valuable as a blocker, he was never targeted or schemed as a pass catcher, and Jake Browning is terrible and didn't bother looking his way even when he was very clearly open.

I didn't like the Sample pick at 52, and I still don't. To be honest I wouldn't be happy with him in the 3rd, either. But his athletic profile outlines that there is at least some potential upside to his game. He's certainly worth more than what you're projecting.You may want to revisit this one.

16 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

There were so many better TE prospects that you guys passes on in favor of him

I definitely agree, but you also need to consider the types of TEs the Bengals were after, because they're obviously not all the same.Our FO targeted what they believed to be the best Y-TE in the draft after Hockenson. 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

D5Hx71nW0AEYKI5.png:large

An RAS of 9.02 out of 10 indicates well above average athleticism for the position. If that's not "very good" athleticism, how would you define it? He never really had the chance of putting it on display as a receiver at Washington for a few reasons - he's extremely valuable as a blocker, he was never targeted or schemed as a pass catcher, and Jake Browning is terrible and didn't bother looking his way even when he was very clearly open.

I didn't like the Sample pick at 52, and I still don't. To be honest I wouldn't be happy with him in the 3rd, either. But his athletic profile outlines that there is at least some potential upside to his game. He's certainly worth more than what you're projecting.You may want to revisit this one.

I definitely agree, but you also need to consider the types of TEs the Bengals were after, because they're obviously not all the same.Our FO targeted what they believed to be the best Y-TE in the draft after Hockenson. 

The dude looks stiffer than a board in pads. I’ve never seen him run away from a defender or set one up with a sudden jab step. I don’t really care about his testing numbers. The tape shows a lumbering TE that doesn’t threaten anyone in the NFL as a pass catcher. 

Again, the Bengals FO knows more about the dude than I do so I guess we’ll see, but I don’t think it’s crazy at all to have had a 7th round grade on him given the depth of this class + his pretty awful receiving ability/production. 

 

Also, how are you getting “very good” from “average” athleticism? I’d classify his athletic testing numbers as “average.” His game speed is below average. I’d use the word “solid” athleticism if I were trying to sell myself on the pick, not “very good.”  

Edited by BleedTheClock

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6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

The dude looks stiffer than a board in pads. I’ve never seen him run away from a defender or set one up with a sudden jab step. I don’t really care about his testing numbers. The tape shows a lumbering TE that doesn’t threaten anyone in the NFL as a pass catcher. 

Again, the Bengals FO knows more about the dude than I do so I guess we’ll see, but I don’t think it’s crazy at all to have had a 7th round grade on him given the depth of this class + his pretty awful receiving ability/production. 

Also, how are you getting “very good” from “average” athleticism? I’d classify his athletic testing numbers as “average.” His game speed is below average. I’d use the word “solid” athleticism if I were trying to sell myself on the pick, not “very good.”  

Fair enough. I would agree with that.

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On 4/30/2019 at 1:56 AM, NudeTayne said:

Best:

3. San Diego had a great draft with Tillery & Adderley, amongst others.  They got a lot of nice value.  Pipkins was great value and could have gone earlier.  Easton Stick is one of the most promising later round guys in this draft.  Tranquill could end up starting at LB sooner than later as well.

I'm shocked that the Chargers are in more than a few of these.  I thought the draft was solid overall but wasn't spectacular, and definitely not a top 3 draft in the class. What we did do is get a LOT of athleticism.  From the guy who does RAS, we had the highest average rating at 8.63 (9 is considered an elite athlete), with only Adderly and Egbule dropping below 8.  Not saying I don't really like the draft class, but I guess it depends on how much you like Stick and Pipkins, which were the 2 more questionable picks.

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1 minute ago, Duffman57 said:

I'm shocked that the Chargers are in more than a few of these.  I thought the draft was solid overall but wasn't spectacular, and definitely not a top 3 draft in the class. What we did do is get a LOT of athleticism.  From the guy who does RAS, we had the highest average rating at 8.63 (9 is considered an elite athlete), with only Adderly and Egbule dropping below 8.  Not saying I don't really like the draft class, but I guess it depends on how much you like Stick and Pipkins, which were the 2 more questionable picks.

Have to agree with this. The Chargers looked like middle-of-the-road to me. Certainly not bad, yet also not spectacular. Bit above average, honestly.

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1 minute ago, Suffering_Bills said:

Have to agree with this. The Chargers looked like middle-of-the-road to me. Certainly not bad, yet also not spectacular. Bit above average, honestly.

Honestly to me, it was an interesting mix of what type of guys they chose. While they didn't take anyone that people were really negative about, they took guys with bigtime potential, that people think could go way above their projection. So I can see a few people being really high on Tillery and Adderly (as well as Tranquill/Pipkins and i've heard some Broughton), and I can see why someone could easily get very high on the projection of this class.  But for now I think it's a solid B/B+ draft.

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23 minutes ago, Duffman57 said:

I'm shocked that the Chargers are in more than a few of these.  I thought the draft was solid overall but wasn't spectacular, and definitely not a top 3 draft in the class. What we did do is get a LOT of athleticism.  From the guy who does RAS, we had the highest average rating at 8.63 (9 is considered an elite athlete), with only Adderly and Egbule dropping below 8.  Not saying I don't really like the draft class, but I guess it depends on how much you like Stick and Pipkins, which were the 2 more questionable picks.

It depends on people's draft boards when it comes down to it. Over here, Adderley was a late first rounder and Tillery was in the next tier below Quinnen/Oliver.

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3 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

A few things:

- Let me tell you a little secret, a standing edge in a 4-3 is still a base end, the only difference is he's in a 2 point stance rather than in a 3 point stance

- Von Miller, Yannick Ngakoue, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Olivier Vernon, Frank Clark are just a few names of guys who've excelled in a 4-3 base after having the perception of a 3-4 personnel guy

- Scheme fit????,He played in the same "scheme" at UK, how all of the sudden "the worst scheme fit possible"?

- Would not set a physical edge = False narrative

- Does not have power?, have you seen this guy's physique?, to think he wouldn't be able to generate power at 6'5 265 (Who is an inch taller, equal weight, and did 3 more reps of 225) with his physical capabilities is asinine, if you question Allen, you should question Ferrell just the same. 

- I'm convinced your whole argument is just trying to convince yourself that Farrell is better than Allen to make yourself feel better, if that's so then admit it, but don't try to pass off false narratives and untrue factoids as truth.

Lolwut? We’ve all been saying this since January in the Raider forum. Almost none of us wanted Allen. Allen’s tape has not really shown power. Almost all of his sacks come untouched going right around the linemen. He also never has his hand in the dirt. The guy is a pure 3-4 OLB through thick and thin. Have you even watched Allns tape or a quick highlight video? He does not set a physical edge against the run at all, he was not a good run defender in college. And no he was not a 4-3 DE in college, he was always standing. 

You didn’t disprove anything with your post and just claimed false claims with no evidence. I’ve seen every snap of Allens 2018 season. 

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I definitely disagree with OP on the Titans' draft. I think they had a top 3-5 draft. Yeah, Simmons possibly not playing this year is a bummer, but his talent is worth possibly waiting a year. AJ Brown was a very good pick in round two as well.


Besides them, Washington had a great draft. Buffalo had a great first two days. I liked Arizona's picks, but them not taking an OL is a bit shocking considering how bad their OL is. I know Murray can scramble, but with his frame, you still want to protect him as much as possible. LAC and New England also had really good drafts too.

Off the top of my head, I felt Detroit's draft was lackluster. I like Hockenson, but taking him over Oliver? I also found Houston's draft to be underwhelming.

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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 7:22 AM, SmittyBacall said:

7th round for a TE with prototypical size, very good athleticism, great character, good hands, and outstanding blocking ability? That seems low.

Sample is the Kittle of this draft

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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 10:17 AM, SmittyBacall said:

D5Hx71nW0AEYKI5.png:large

An RAS of 9.02 out of 10 indicates well above average athleticism for the position. If that's not "very good" athleticism, how would you define it? He never really had the chance of putting it on display as a receiver at Washington for a few reasons - he's extremely valuable as a blocker, he was never targeted or schemed as a pass catcher, and Jake Browning is terrible and didn't bother looking his way even when he was very clearly open.

I didn't like the Sample pick at 52, and I still don't. To be honest I wouldn't be happy with him in the 3rd, either. But his athletic profile outlines that there is at least some potential upside to his game. He's certainly worth more than what you're projecting.You may want to revisit this one.

I definitely agree, but you also need to consider the types of TEs the Bengals were after, because they're obviously not all the same.Our FO targeted what they believed to be the best Y-TE in the draft after Hockenson. 

its elite, you dont' have to sugar coat it. Boyle is like a 4 or 5 RAS and basically 100% of TEs that produce in this league as receivers have an 8+ RAS

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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 12:42 PM, BayRaider said:

Lolwut? We’ve all been saying this since January in the Raider forum. Almost none of us wanted Allen. Allen’s tape has not really shown power. Almost all of his sacks come untouched going right around the linemen. He also never has his hand in the dirt. The guy is a pure 3-4 OLB through thick and thin. Have you even watched Allns tape or a quick highlight video? He does not set a physical edge against the run at all, he was not a good run defender in college. And no he was not a 4-3 DE in college, he was always standing. 

You didn’t disprove anything with your post and just claimed false claims with no evidence. I’ve seen every snap of Allens 2018 season. 

Dear lord for all of us stop

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