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2020 NFL Draft Discussion


CWood21

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2 hours ago, SSG said:

Yeah, after he used Dion Lewis as his bell cow and focal point of his offense for 11 games. Henry didn't see the usage rate that he's seen this year until week 14 of last year.  It was the best year of his career despite MLF not because of him.  It's no surprise to see their offense improve when they aren't handing the ball off to Dion Lewis 15 times a game like they were at the start of last year.

LOL - Henry had 40 more carries, 300+ yards and 7 more TDs than his previous career highs. He also had career highs in targets and receptions. You cannot be serious with this take, it is laughably bad. If anything Henry owes the usage he is having now to LaFleur. 

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2 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Like the Jimmy Graham situation last year?  Or MVS?  Or ESB?

I think Outpost has highlighted a few times, just a few, where Rodgers simply wouldn't throw it to those guys.

And that is changing because of what again?

Again, if a wide receiver is drafted in any round, it is going to take time for Rodgers to trust him.  MVS just had an amazing year for a rookie and even then Rodgers ignored him for some long stretches.

No, nothing like the Jimmy graham situation last year.  IMO Graham was washed up when our front office gave him that foolish contract.  Jimmy Graham's last year in Seattle he was a 9 yard per catch TE who was completely useless in any situation but the redzone.  He was coming off a year where he could get no separation and generally sucked when he wasn't catching TDs.  Why is the fact that Graham was coming off his worst season since his rookie year being ignored?  

MVS was a guy who looked good on occasion and terrible in others.  Thus far through 2 games he's looked more like a #4 WR than a #2 and it has nothing to do with his QB.  He's been really inconsistent and has struggled to get open.   

ESB was a bottom of the draft caliber prospect who was on the verge of possibly not making the roster this year when he got hurt. 

Is it Rodgers fault Jmon Moore didn't make the team?  A guy some here called a future star that's not even good enough to be on a NFL practice squad.  

I don't care what outpost has highlighted.  He's already stated that he's got deep routed hate for Aaron Rodgers that was developed over his issues with the person, not the player.  He's incapable of being objective when it comes to Rodgers.  EVERYTHING will always be Rodgers fault in every single instance.  A WR drops a ball, it was a bad throw.  An offensive lineman blows a block, he should have gotten rid of it sooner. A RB fumbles, it was a bad hand off.  

We'll agree to disagree.  MVS looked like he had no business being on a NFL field for most of the second half of his rookie year. If he wasn't running in a straight line he was useless.   He got passed on the depth chart by both Kumerow and ESB before injuries forced him back into the starting lineup.  Rodgers surely had his issues last year but the idea that MVS is this star WR that's being held back by his QB is ridiculous and absolutely is not supported by anything we've seen this year.

This idea that Aaron Rodgers was intentionally trying to lose last year is crazy. That is what he's accused of doing by saying he's "refusing to throw it to wide open receivers running free".  

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1 minute ago, SSG said:

No, nothing like the Jimmy graham situation last year.  IMO Graham was washed up when our front office gave him that foolish contract.  Jimmy Graham's last year in Seattle he was a 9 yard per catch TE who was completely useless in any situation but the redzone.  He was coming off a year where he could get no separation and generally sucked when he wasn't catching TDs.  Why is the fact that Graham was coming off his worst season since his rookie year being ignored?  

MVS was a guy who looked good on occasion and terrible in others.  Thus far through 2 games he's looked more like a #4 WR than a #2 and it has nothing to do with his QB.  He's been really inconsistent and has struggled to get open.   

ESB was a bottom of the draft caliber prospect who was on the verge of possibly not making the roster this year when he got hurt. 

Is it Rodgers fault Jmon Moore didn't make the team?  A guy some here called a future star that's not even good enough to be on a NFL practice squad.  

I don't care what outpost has highlighted.  He's already stated that he's got deep routed hate for Aaron Rodgers that was developed over his issues with the person, not the player.  He's incapable of being objective when it comes to Rodgers.  EVERYTHING will always be Rodgers fault in every single instance.  A WR drops a ball, it was a bad throw.  An offensive lineman blows a block, he should have gotten rid of it sooner. A RB fumbles, it was a bad hand off.  

We'll agree to disagree.  MVS looked like he had no business being on a NFL field for most of the second half of his rookie year. If he wasn't running in a straight line he was useless.   He got passed on the depth chart by both Kumerow and ESB before injuries forced him back into the starting lineup.  Rodgers surely had his issues last year but the idea that MVS is this star WR that's being held back by his QB is ridiculous and absolutely is not supported by anything we've seen this year.

This idea that Aaron Rodgers was intentionally trying to lose last year is crazy. That is what he's accused of doing by saying he's "refusing to throw it to wide open receivers running free".  

Again, what changes with a rookie WR and a 36 year old Rodgers?  Is Rodgers going to turn over a new leaf and trust a rookie?  Over guys he's practiced and played with for multiple seasons?  History has shown us that it takes time with Rodgers.

So tell me, how would a rookie WR next year be different?  Because?  I'm actually with you.  I want a weapon.  I'd take a WR in the first.  I'm good with that.  I just don't think the QB is....

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26 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Henry's own words do not back up the statement above....

from 24/7 Sports....

The December 2018 performance from Henry just goes to show what he's capable of. He credits a frank conversation with former Titan great Eddie George that led to the turnaround. Henry on what George told him to do.“He shot me straight and told me I needed to finish runs, that I needed to be more physical, and make the defense pay. He told me I wasn’t playing to my potential, and I could play better. That’s the stuff I needed to hear. It gave me a different outlook moving forward.”

Why don't they back up my statements? MLF used Dion Lewis as his featured back for the first 11 games of the year.  Once Henry was given that opportunity his season and their offense took off.  It's nice that he got the motivation he needed from Eddie George that he wasn't getting from his coaching staff.

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8 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Again, what changes with a rookie WR and a 36 year old Rodgers?  Is Rodgers going to turn over a new leaf and trust a rookie?  Over guys he's practiced and played with for multiple seasons?  History has shown us that it takes time with Rodgers.

So tell me, how would a rookie WR next year be different?  Because?  I'm actually with you.  I want a weapon.  I'd take a WR in the first.  I'm good with that.  I just don't think the QB is....

I don't think it's a trust issue.  IMO it's a talent and consistency issue.  There is a reason we've had one late round rookie WR in the last 20 years make an impact despite taking a bunch of chances on them.  The idea that he should be able to turn every single WR we roster into a high end NFL starter is ridiculous.  

Talent would be the difference.  Drafting a NFL ready WR based on talent instead picking athleticism over experience would go a long way.  Last year MVS and ESB were better athletes than WRs based on what they did or didn't do in college.  You really believe that the only difference between Calvin Ridley or Marquez Brown and MVS or ESB is their QB?  

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35 minutes ago, SSG said:

Why don't they back up my statements? MLF used Dion Lewis as his featured back for the first 11 games of the year.  Once Henry was given that opportunity his season and their offense took off.  It's nice that he got the motivation he needed from Eddie George that he wasn't getting from his coaching staff.

Because never once does the name Dion Lewis cross his lips.

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8 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Lol, Woodson did not start to decline in 2011, OMG.  He had 7 interceptions and 2 sacks and a TD in 2011.  Then had 4.5 sacks, 11 interceptions and 5 forced fumbles the rest of his career.

Nick’s injury is exactly why you don’t stop putting pieces into defense.  

Rodgers is paid to overcome a lack of high investment into skill positions.  Protect him with OT and let him make what he has at the skills work.  Always keep that defense because as we’ve seen, not Manning, not Brees, not Brady and certainly not Rodgers can win a Super Bowl without defense.

A lot of our defenders had nice stats in 2011.  Because our offense was historically good and forced teams to try and play catch-up.

 

Our defense was bad, and yes,  Woodson went from a top 5 defensive player in 2009-2010 to a top 25 player.  The decline from great to good mattered.

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1 hour ago, Boondoggle said:

Donald Driver as a 7th round pick didn't bust out until year 4 so I wouldn't give up on MVS and ESB.  They may need a little more time.  I would invest a 2020 2nd or 3rd round pick in a WR and maybe pull in a vet pending the growth of MVS this year.

Cody Latimer is a FA next year!

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2 hours ago, Boondoggle said:

Donald Driver as a 7th round pick didn't bust out until year 4 so I wouldn't give up on MVS and ESB.  They may need a little more time.  I would invest a 2020 2nd or 3rd round pick in a WR and maybe pull in a vet pending the growth of MVS this year.

I don’t think anyone is giving up on MVS. The guy has talent. He probably should be a 3rd wr right now (or 4th).

 

I think though we are getting to the point where the people (like me) who thought we were deficient at wr and wanted a guy in rounds 1-3 are at the I told you stage. There is A lot of late round  Viking wr confirmation bias on this board (X wr worked out and he was a late pick, MVS and ESB had some productiion as rookies, they are going to be stars). The fact is if you look at success rates that isn’t the case (like with all of our wr picks made after round 3 this century outside Driver and maybe mvs)

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26 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

I don’t think anyone is giving up on MVS. The guy has talent. He probably should be a 3rd wr right now (or 4th).

 

I think though we are getting to the point where the people (like me) who thought we were deficient at wr and wanted a guy in rounds 1-3 are at the I told you stage. There is A lot of late round  Viking wr confirmation bias on this board (X wr worked out and he was a late pick, MVS and ESB had some productiion as rookies, they are going to be stars). The fact is if you look at success rates that isn’t the case (like with all of our wr picks made after round 3 this century outside Driver and maybe mvs)

I told you so stage after 2 weeks. After playing a Vikings defense who did the same exact thing to an offense with 2 1st round recievers and a vet pickup at WR with a 3rd Rd TE.. maybe the offense is just sluggish. Maybe you're correct. Bit early to pop out a-toad-aso.

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16 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

I told you so stage after 2 weeks. After playing a Vikings defense who did the same exact thing to an offense with 2 1st round recievers and a vet pickup at WR with a 3rd Rd TE.. maybe the offense is just sluggish. Maybe you're correct. Bit early to pop out a-toad-aso.

I don’t think it is too early. ESB looked cutable in the preseason and this offseason people were calling him the prototypical big slot. Both mvs and ESB graded as low end 3s last year (ie only getting time because the situation was dire). AR lead the league in throwaways for a reason last year for a reason.

Also, ATL’s wrs weren’t a problem against minny.  They were getting open. Their issue was pass protection  (young Ol, loud road game against a top end front.., really bad matchup)

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2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Because never once does the name Dion Lewis cross his lips.

Why would it?  It's not like it was his choice to see the Titans offense use a terrible RB like Dion Lewis as a bell cow.  Henry had a 60+ yard TD called back because of a penalty in their opener last year so it's not like he was playing all that terrible.  He's got no control over his OC's terrible decision making.  I commend Henry for taking one for the team instead of calling out an offensive coaching staff that looks almost inept in hindsight.  

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17 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

I don’t think it is too early. ESB looked cutable in the preseason and this offseason people were calling him the prototypical big slot. Both mvs and ESB graded as low end 3s last year (ie only getting time because the situation was dire). AR lead the league in throwaways for a reason last year for a reason.

Also, ATL’s wrs weren’t a problem against minny.  They were getting open. Their issue was pass protection  (young Ol, loud road game against a top end front.., really bad matchup)

You should go watch that game, because you're wrong. Minns pressure package wasnt doing anything until the 2nd effort stuff.

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