2020 NFL Draft Discussion

[MacReady]

I really hate how any points made against Rodgers, good points or not, get people to be all like, “Yeah!”  
 

Rodgers is throwing crap balls to MVS for two years now, but I can’t use a whole season of football in my points?  Lol.  Rodgers could throw an interception on the left sideline and y’all would blame MVS if MVS was on the right sideline.  And not in the play.  And also dead.

[mikemike778]

8 hours ago, gopackgo247 said:

need to hit the Dline early and hope for a replacement for Clark. 

No. What we need to do is ask Pettine to start making more out of players that aren't drafted in the first round or expensive free agents. Every year, the defence gets the premium picks and they have now got expensive free agents player as well - the output for all this investment is a defence which is again near the bottom of the rankings. If Pettine can't make something from the defensive talent we've assembled then find someone who can. Yes, after Clark, the DL talent isn't amazing. But we've played most of the season with a roster of undrafted and late round receivers and the offence still made it by maximising the talent they had. Make it work. 

You shouldn't chase positions in the draft, butt if the board works then ....

• 1. OT - this should be clear cut, need and positional value
• 2. WR - probably the sweet spot for receivers
• 3. OL/TE - third is a nice round for a TE but depends on Sternberger's development

The late round picks they can then use to take a shot on players for the defence although if we did take a TE in the third I would line a Guard around the 5th as well. We should have enough talent to develop from the piles of draft picks heaped into the defence the last few years so do that. If we need another DL then sign a second contract free agent. 

[coachbuns]

23 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I really hate how any points made against Rodgers, good points or not, get people to be all like, “Yeah!”  
 

Rodgers is throwing crap balls to MVS for two years now, but I can’t use a whole season of football in my points?  Lol.  Rodgers could throw an interception on the left sideline and y’all would blame MVS if MVS was on the right sideline.  And not in the play.  And also dead.

Your love affair with MVS is evident ... each to their own.   It's just nuts to think Rodgers doesn't throw to him cuz he doesn't like him, trust him, etc.  Rodgers doesn't throw to him cuz he just runs down the field as fast as he can and  hopes to get thrown to.  He doesn't run good routes, gets pushed off routes, doesn't come back for balls and yes, he's dropped a couple of bombs this year too.  Rodgers has missed him on occasion just like he's missed others on occasion.  It happens ... many other NFL QB's seem to have the same problem every single game.  Your man MVS does have  potential .... he's got to learn the little things to improve and Rodgers has to hit him when he's open.  

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

40 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I really hate how any points made against Rodgers, good points or not, get people to be all like, “Yeah!”  
 

Rodgers is throwing crap balls to MVS for two years now, but I can’t use a whole season of football in my points?  Lol.  Rodgers could throw an interception on the left sideline and y’all would blame MVS if MVS was on the right sideline.  And not in the play.  And also dead.

That's not true.  If he was dead we would want him traded for a second round pick.

[coachbuns]

16 minutes ago, mikemike778 said:

No. What we need to do is ask Pettine to start making more out of players that aren't drafted in the first round or expensive free agents. Every year, the defence gets the premium picks and they have now got expensive free agents player as well - the output for all this investment is a defence which is again near the bottom of the rankings. If Pettine can't make something from the defensive talent we've assembled then find someone who can. Yes, after Clark, the DL talent isn't amazing. But we've played most of the season with a roster of undrafted and late round receivers and the offence still made it by maximising the talent they had. Make it work. 

You shouldn't chase positions in the draft, butt if the board works then ....

• 1. OT - this should be clear cut, need and positional value
• 2. WR - probably the sweet spot for receivers
• 3. OL/TE - third is a nice round for a TE but depends on Sternberger's development

The late round picks they can then use to take a shot on players for the defence although if we did take a TE in the third I would line a Guard around the 5th as well. We should have enough talent to develop from the piles of draft picks heaped into the defence the last few years so do that. If we need another DL then sign a second contract free agent. 

OT ... yes,  then go with best available in the WR, DL, MLB in the next 3 rounds.  Free agency can fill in a hole or 2 but we need talented fresh blood again.

[Nick_gb]

46 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I really hate how any points made against Rodgers, good points or not, get people to be all like, “Yeah!”  
 

Rodgers is throwing crap balls to MVS for two years now, but I can’t use a whole season of football in my points?  Lol.  Rodgers could throw an interception on the left sideline and y’all would blame MVS if MVS was on the right sideline.  And not in the play.  And also dead.

You're shocked by this why? Aaron Rodgers is on a podium above what Brett Favre was.  You really thought you could talk down on him and have it received with open arms? No one wants to hear the bad and ugly about one of their favorite players to put on the uniform, no matter how much truth may be behind it. It's sometimes better to drink the kool-aid then speak the truth and have everyone thinking about life after Rodgers.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Nick_gb

[coachbuns]

9 minutes ago, Nick_gb said:

You're shocked by this why? Aaron Rodgers is on a podium above what Brett Favre was.  You really thought you could talk down on him and have it received with open arms? No one wants to hear the bad and ugly about one of their favorite players to put on the uniform, no matter how much truth may be behind it. It's sometimes better to drink the kool-aid then speak the truth and have everyone thinking about life after Rodgers.

Maybe try a different flavor of kool-aid?  Maybe Gator-aide or Power - Aide (grape is my favorite).

[mikemike778]

8 hours ago, Nick_gb said:

You're shocked by this why? Aaron Rodgers is on a podium above what Brett Favre was.  You really thought you could talk down on him and have it received with open arms? No one wants to hear the bad and ugly about one of their favorite players to put on the uniform, no matter how much truth may be behind it. It's sometimes better to drink the kool-aid then speak the truth and have everyone thinking about life after Rodgers.

Last few seasons I have been critical of Rodgers and thought he was on the way down rapidly. This has probably been his best season of his career - most of his time here he has been loaded with weapons. This year he has had a set of undrafted JAGs to throw to and has still put up some amazing figures by utilising everything available. Sure some passes to MVS haven't been perfect but Aaron has been carrying the team this season - he has been throwing to  the open guy and making use of everyone - if MVS hasn't performed its on him.

This is why I'm so annoyed with the defence - with everything spent on the defence, its pathetic they are relying on Rodgers to carry the team - it should be the other way round. This should be a top 5 defence in which case we would be favourites to win it all.

Its why I'm also loath to waste more top picks in the defence.

[Scoremore]

17 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

No. What we need to do is ask Pettine to start making more out of players that aren't drafted in the first round or expensive free agents. Every year, the defence gets the premium picks and they have now got expensive free agents player as well - the output for all this investment is a defence which is again near the bottom of the rankings. If Pettine can't make something from the defensive talent we've assembled then find someone who can. Yes, after Clark, the DL talent isn't amazing. But we've played most of the season with a roster of undrafted and late round receivers and the offence still made it by maximising the talent they had. Make it work. 

You shouldn't chase positions in the draft, butt if the board works then ....

• 1. OT - this should be clear cut, need and positional value
• 2. WR - probably the sweet spot for receivers
• 3. OL/TE - third is a nice round for a TE but depends on Sternberger's development

The late round picks they can then use to take a shot on players for the defence although if we did take a TE in the third I would line a Guard around the 5th as well. We should have enough talent to develop from the piles of draft picks heaped into the defence the last few years so do that. If we need another DL then sign a second contract free agent. 

Unfortunately we will be picking late and their is a huge demand for OT's this year.  Value in Rd#1 probably won't be there.  Could be a mid round special.  Ignored DL which is probably one of our biggest needs going into next year.  Really it is going to depend on what we do with our FA's.  As of now have it as OT, DT, ILB, WR, TE, QB, KR/PR.  Gutey will have his work cut out for him in the off season.  Hopefully we can address a few needs through FA.  Getting Bulaga back would help tremendously.  He's got a few good years left.  Be nice if we could also sign a mid level DT as well.  Give us some more flexibility come draft time.  Really want to go BPA and not reach for need.  

[OneTwoSixFive]

2 hours ago, Scoremore said:

Unfortunately we will be picking late and their is a huge demand for OT's this year.  Value in Rd#1 probably won't be there.  Could be a mid round special.  Ignored DL which is probably one of our biggest needs going into next year.  Really it is going to depend on what we do with our FA's.  As of now have it as OT, DT, ILB, WR, TE, QB, KR/PR.  Gutey will have his work cut out for him in the off season.  Hopefully we can address a few needs through FA.  Getting Bulaga back would help tremendously.  He's got a few good years left.  Be nice if we could also sign a mid level DT as well.  Give us some more flexibility come draft time.  Really want to go BPA and not reach for need.  

This argument sounds to me like one coming from someone who doesn't want OT to be an early pick, and is looking for any rationalisation to pick elsewhere . There IS pressure on many (even most) teams to improve their O line, but this isn't a one year thing,  it is an every year thing. That makes the value for a capable OT high, in the second tier of  positions below QBs.

If Bulaga does not get a contract after this year, then an immediate starter-level guy is required, which probably means a first rounder. If Bulaga gets a contract, the Packers still need a RT as an eventual replacement, but now he could be taken in round two or three, as it no longer needs to be an immediate starter-level player, just one that has that potential down the road. Beyond round three the chances of getting an above average starter-level OT are too much of a long shot to rely on, and the chance of a Bakhtiari level player (taken in round 4) is absolutely minute.

There is a scenario where the Packers could both let Bulaga go, AND not get an OT until after round one. That comes if they have enough confidence to put Alex Light at RT as the starter in 2020. It erodes the Packers depth (which is good at the moment), but is possible if coaches think Light is improving enough to warrant being a starter. They would have to be pretty confident though, since Rodgers at 35 needs protecting more than when he was in his 20s. If Light was only good enough to be a stop-gap, you still need an OT early (round 2 or 3 as mentioned earlier). The one scenario for an OT after round three, is where Light steps in and is seen as a creditable long-term RT. In this case an OT only needs to be backup level and therefore a later pick.

Can the Packers ignore getting a RT this year ? Well, if Bulaga gets a three year contract you can do that and pick up your future RT (if it isn't Light) next year. This year seems to be about average for OTs, so I would rather get a prospect now, than take a chance on what might be a lean year in 2021 with (as always) great demand at that position.

What are the alternative high picks, ones in the first three rounds ? I'd say ILB, which is important, moving up to critical if Martinez goes elsewhere (and not much quality that I can see in veteran FA). 2020 should be as good for ILBs, as 2019 was bad, so the chances of decent value with that pick are high.

Open to dispute is WR - if the Packers want to raise the quality there, they want someone who can be a no.2, not a 4th or 5th best guy where they already have many candidates. Getting good value here is helped by the 2020 draft being projected as very good for WRs, maybe as good as 2014 (when the packers got Davante Adams). A good slot guy is also possible, if they could be the second best WR in that unit. The argument comes from how the Packers view MVS, ESB and Lazard going forward - if they see continued improvement they may settle with what they already have.

Another good DL is a useful addition. As I have stated elsewhere, I'd like to see Clark's snaps in the 40s when he is healthy and that requires better talent next to him. Acquiring a DL can go two ways. You can look for a 320lb run stuffer to spell Clark, one who offers little else (basically, a better Lancaster type), which you should be able to pick up in rounds 3/4, or you can go for a big 3-4 DE in round one who can give you better run defense and also some pass rush (ie better than M.Adams/D.Lowry). I wouldn't get a TE in 2020, unless it is later in the draft. The position is very thin this year with none of the higher rated prospects showing much as a pass blocker.

I'd save returner guys for later picks.

The wild card is QB. At some time Rodgers replacement must be taken, but it might still be a year or two early for that. What is most important is that the Packers have maximum confidence in their pick. Though it seems to me too early for his replacement, confidence is everything. When they see the guy they think could be the new starter, get him, whether it is this year, or several years down the road.

Edited November 9, 2019 by OneTwoSixFive

[Scoremore]

1265 have OT as the #1 listed need don't get me wrong we should be looking there first.  Several clubs have a dire need there so believe the pool of #1 graded OT's will be well depleted.  I suspect they will reach also.  Hence don't believe the value will be there in RD 1.  Looks like we are in agreement about the rest except no mention of ILB.  This is an area we will need to shore up especially if Martinez is gone in FA.  As for QB I have been wanting one for awhile.  However Aaron looks to be back to form and wants to play into his 40's.  Think he has possibly 2-3 good seasons left in him.  If a top prospect falls in the 1st it would be hard to ignore.  Maybe a little early but better than too late. 

My idea was to get Rosen in here.  Consensus is he sucks.  Good for us.  Think we could get him for next to nothing and groom him behind Aaron.  At least have a capable back up with the potential to be the heir.  Miami will be drafting a QB up high and probably look to Fitz as the back up.  A 6th or 7th?  Will they outright cut him?  Dunno but worth a look.  Guy like Hubert falls in our lap at the end of the 1st?  hmmm...would rather go the Rosen route if possible.  Still believe in the right situation GB he could develop.

[MacReady]

No.  Rosen sucks, always will suck.  Don’t want him.  Unless it’s for a 6th.

[Golfman]

Tank for Tua my ***! Joe Burrow is the best NFL QB prospect in college football. 

[Scoremore]

10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

No.  Rosen sucks, always will suck.  Don’t want him.  Unless it’s for a 6th.

Think you are mistaking him for Trubisky.  ha ha ha.  Yah  a 6th is about the most he would be worth at this point.  And you might be right he might always suck. You could have put Aaron Rodgers in the same situations AZ and Mia and the results probably wouldn't have been a whole lot different.  The kid never had a chance.  Throws a pretty ball and is intelligent.   Let him sit on the bench behind Aaron and he'll improve.  Golf both QB's look really good.  Great game.

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 hour ago, Scoremore said:

Looks like we are in agreement about the rest except no mention of ILB. 

I did mention ILBs (though it's easy to miss in my long post. I copy/pasted it below.

 

2 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

What are the alternative high picks, ones in the first three rounds ? I'd say ILB, which is important, moving up to critical if Martinez goes elsewhere (and not much quality that I can see in veteran FA). 2020 should be as good for ILBs, as 2019 was bad, so the chances of decent value with that pick are high.

QB Rosen is an interesting guy. Not sure what i think about him now, but pre-draft I thought he was a functional starter QB who could read the field.