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2020 NFL Draft Discussion

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7 minutes ago, Golfman said:

I'm convinced WR isn't the problem, it's the QB who refuses to throw to the WR. You go back to the Super Bowl when he was threading the needle time after time. The compare it to how safely he plays now. It's really sad. 

I don't waste a pick on a WR until Rodgers throws to the guys he has and they prove they are not capable. He's not done that IMO. When he's given them chances they by and large have come through. 

Pass catcher is a problem. Outside adans there isn’t a guy he has confidence in. I could argue go back to the year Jordy got hurt and  he was passive. Then Jordy came back and the O rolled again. 
 

Using the nfcn as a barometer the fact is outside Adams, our 2-3 wr and te group is the weakest. Maybe MVS would crack mn’s third wide spot. 

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On 11/29/2019 at 11:42 AM, pacman5252 said:

Pass catcher is a problem. Outside adans there isn’t a guy he has confidence in. I could argue go back to the year Jordy got hurt and  he was passive. Then Jordy came back and the O rolled again. 
 

Using the nfcn as a barometer the fact is outside Adams, our 2-3 wr and te group is the weakest. Maybe MVS would crack mn’s third wide spot. 

Sounds like a coaching problem rather than a talent problem. Time for the coach to tell him to quit bitching and throw the ball to the guy who is open in the order of his progression. Enough letting him decide! It has to stop and NOW is as good a time as any! 

How many '****ty' WRs did Brett Favre make into football players because he threw them the ball if they were open! Anybody remember Kitrick Taylor. Not saying he was one of the players Favre made into a football player, but he got open and got the ball and Favre got his first win! 

It's not rocket science! 

Edited by Golfman

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1 hour ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

You don't get Bulaga for a one year deal because a) OT's are in too much demand by too many teams and b) Bulaga won't sign a one year deal. Three years is probably the minimum, and my earlier guess was a $10m pa deal with some reasonable (LTBE) playing time incentives. You can go OT in the first two rounds this year, but then you sacrifice a premium pick elsewhere. In my mind there are four important picks, OT (if Bulaga isn't signed), DL, WR, ILB.

Since three of those picks need to be in rounds 1-3, keeping Bulaga allows you to go DL, WR, ILB with the top picks. A key part of retaining Bulaga is giving the other positions draft priority this year.If Bulaga holds up in 2020, you can get his successor in the 2021 draft and feed him in gradually. You only really need Bulaga as a starter for two more years, but you will need a three year contract to retain him.

 

Few things; 

First as I stated before i am more indifferent if we resign Bulaga. We want Bulaga to start 2 more years.  I’m not sure he’ll be able to. He’ll be 31 in March and will be in year 11. He’s on the cliff for OL. I’m cool if we give him 2 years but it is playing with fire and should not detour us from taking an OT high.

As far as picks and filling holes;

ILB- is only a major need if we don’t resign Blake or if we get a new dc who wants to run more base. We could improve over Blake, I don’t see us burning a 1/2 on it (stop gap or another 3rd/4th would be fine)

Between DL and wr, we can find a quality guy in fa for a year. There is always a Sheldon Richardson, Bennet, Wilk capable starter out there. Same with wr. There isn’t at OT. As far as DL/WR we also have projects we’ve invested in. That can’t be said about OT.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Golfman said:

Sounds like a coaching problem rather than a talent problem. Time for the coach to tell him to quit bitching the throw the ball the guy who is open in the order of his progression. Enough letting him decide! It has to stop and NOW is as good a time as any! 

How many '****ty' WRs did Brett Favre make into football players because he threw them the ball if they were open! Anybody remember Kitrick Taylor. Not saying he was one of the players Favre made into a football player, but he got open and got the ball and Favre got his first win! 

It's not rocket science! 

 Adams is our only wr taken in the first 170 picks of a draft. Jace,  Adams, and rehash Mercedes Lewis are the only  top 100 picks gb has  at skilled positions.
 

You bring up Brett Favre, you realize we complained about his wrs all the time and blamed them for all of Favre’s mistakes especially in the Bill Schroeder Corey Bradford era? Also Favre’s best years he had guys like Brooks Freeman Jones(3s), Walker franks sharpe(1), Jennings and Ferguson  (2). 


 

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15 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

 Adams is our only wr taken in the first 170 picks of a draft. Jace,  Adams, and rehash Mercedes Lewis are the only  top 100 picks gb has  at skilled positions.

You bring up Brett Favre, you realize we complained about his wrs all the time and blamed them for all of Favre’s mistakes especially in the Bill Schroeder Corey Bradford era? Also Favre’s best years he had guys like Brooks Freeman Jones(3s), Walker franks sharpe(1), Jennings and Ferguson  (2). 


 

I don't think anyone would disagree that the current WRs are the weakest Rodgers has played with in his career. The regression in his numbers over the years mirrors the gradual drop off in the receiving group over the same period. 

Nobody is blind to Rodgers faults. Nobody.

But you have to give him some help.  Stick the 2011 Rodgers into the current team and he probably doesn't get close to his 2011 numbers. Its impossible to tell whether Aaron can still do it at elite levels with a decent group of receivers - maybe he is done but we don't know. You have to try and give him a chance. We could be waiting 30 years for a franchise QB after he is gone.

It seems like no matter how many draft picks have been thrown at the defence, it does no good. The only thing that has helped the defence is the free agents whereas receiver just gets left. Lazard is probably our Number 2 WR -this is a guy who was undrafted, waived, cut - basically a guy who after two training camps nobody thought was good enough to make a 53.   Now I like him and would be happy to have him on the roster as 4/5 receiver but it should never have got to the point where he is number 2. 

 

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15 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

Few things; 

First as I stated before i am more indifferent if we resign Bulaga. We want Bulaga to start 2 more years.  I’m not sure he’ll be able to. He’ll be 31 in March and will be in year 11. He’s on the cliff for OL. I’m cool if we give him 2 years but it is playing with fire and should not detour us from taking an OT high.

As far as picks and filling holes;

ILB- is only a major need if we don’t resign Blake or if we get a new dc who wants to run more base. We could improve over Blake, I don’t see us burning a 1/2 on it (stop gap or another 3rd/4th would be fine)

Between DL and wr, we can find a quality guy in fa for a year. There is always a Sheldon Richardson, Bennet, Wilk capable starter out there. Same with wr. There isn’t at OT. As far as DL/WR we also have projects we’ve invested in. That can’t be said about OT.

 

 

Its debatable whether to sign Bulaga - I say no but understand the arguments for signing him. But regardless of whether you sign him or not then you have to get the succession plan in place which almost certainly means a high pick.

Bulaga is about as high an injury risk as is possible in the NFL. Relying on him to play the season is reckless In the extreme.

After years of drafting and signing defence, time to use the talent that is there (people are complaining that Rodgers isn't making the  most of his undrafted JAGs at receiver but think its fine to write off the highly drafted defensive talent without trying to find ways of making them work). This year we should be drafting pretty much exclusively offence as it needs a rebuild and use free agency to plug some gaps in defence.

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Just because you re-sign Bulaga doesn't mean he might not fall down and can't get up. You still have to address the position either in FA or most likely a high draft pick. Either of those would then suggest to just save the $40m Bulaga is gonna want.

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39 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Just because you re-sign Bulaga doesn't mean he might not fall down and can't get up. You still have to address the position either in FA or most likely a high draft pick. Either of those would then suggest to just save the $40m Bulaga is gonna want.

I'm sorry, but what do you think a starting RT is going to cost?  I would guess about $40M.  Also, to everyone clamoring for a high round OT, that doesn't mean the kid works out.  Bulaga is the safest alternative and even that is risky.

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5 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

I'm sorry, but what do you think a starting RT is going to cost?  I would guess about $40M.  Also, to everyone clamoring for a high round OT, that doesn't mean the kid works out.  Bulaga is the safest alternative and even that is risky.

Don't forget the OT Packers just signed from the Patriots.  10 year vet who may provide valuable depth behind Bulaga for next couple years. Will know more in couple weeks about the new signing but good pickup just to check out.

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1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

I'm sorry, but what do you think a starting RT is going to cost?  I would guess about $40M.  Also, to everyone clamoring for a high round OT, that doesn't mean the kid works out.  Bulaga is the safest alternative and even that is risky.

40m with a huge injury risk or 40m without ? Which do you choose ? That's not the route Green Bay will take IMO. A high round OT has a much better chance of hitting vs the WR everyone clamors for. 

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On 11/27/2019 at 7:16 AM, AlexGreen#20 said:

Obviously you need to know the context of the first one,

But

At the time, there was nothing wrong with saying "foreigners" instead of "foreign players". This wasn't an anti-foreigners sentiment. This was pre-Trump, he (like a ton of talking heads on ESPN) were probably confused as to why so many NBA teams were spending 2nd round picks on European players that then just would never come over to the NBA to play rather than on domestic players who might not be very good, but would at least be in training camp. 

Ripping on the Commish was and is remains a staple of American small talk, why are we getting on the dude for that?

Agree, people get butthurt way way way too easy nowadays. And at the end of the day we are still talking about a young man who was even younger when he made any of these messages. 

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On 11/27/2019 at 12:37 PM, mikemike778 said:

If his agent offered 5/75 I would just laugh.

You don't sign Bulaga to any deal that you can't get out of extremely easily after one year. His knees are a mess and are going to get worse not better so I'd be reluctant to sign him full stop as there is a good chance your backup RT will be playing in the playoffs. A one year (or equivalent)  deal would be happy to take the risk.

Bulaga isn't stupid. He loves GB, he knows his knees are a mess. His bed bud is Baktiarri. I think he's the type of guy that will want to sign a 2 year deal and just be done with football after that. It truly wouldn't shock me if he retired at the end of this season anyways. Players are getting out of the game earlier than they use to, especially linemen. 

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On 11/27/2019 at 4:54 PM, OneTwoSixFive said:

I would prefer a veteran WR who would be an upgrade out of the box (ie a veteran), but the need for a higher-end  WR is real, it needs addressing one way or another, even if an early pick doesn't offer much in their rookie year. I'll just agree to differ on the quality of the RB class this year. I'll admit It IS true that RBs often declare as Juniors, so it is hard to predict who will declare and who will wait another year in college.

Well after watching Dallas as of late,  we really screwed up letting Cobb go. Love him or hate him, the very least you'd have to say is he'd be tons better than Allison at this point in his career. Cobb was a guy that always knew when and how to scramble towards Aaron when a play was breaking down. Our current core of guys just don't get that and I don't know why not. I guess I blame a ton of that on coaching as well. 

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On 11/27/2019 at 9:55 PM, Gopackgonerd said:

Give Pettine one more year, more likely our team won't fire him after year 2.

Depends if Martinez takes a team friendly discount.

Sign Bulaga if he takes a home town discount, willing to bet he does. 

DL/ILB/T/TE/WR Round one. I'm projecting a 20s first round pick so we can take chances on lesser premium positions like ILB/WR if the talent is there.

Cut ties with Jimmy, maybe sign a mid tier TE in FA. 

Biggest thing we need to do is try to get that DL. If we make one Splash signing make it DL. Imagine if we can get a Smith quality DL signing.

 

 

I really agree with all of your points. I'd only get rid of Pettine specifically if we had someone in mind and knew we could get him ala Rivera, etc. I think Bulaga has a timeframe of a year or two to go, he doesn't wanna go anywhere, nor do we really want him gone, not this regime. I bet he's back as well. I'd sign Martinez but wouldn't consider paying him near top dollar. He's going to hit the market and see what he's worth. I'd bet that some team will look at his tackle numbers and over pay him. Otherwise I'd be willing to bet he comes back on a one year deal. Yes Jimmy has to go, no debate by me. As far as the draft goes, I think you gotta go BPA and try and get as many picks in the top three rounds this year as you can. Maybe package up or package down, but 2,3 2nd or 3rd rounders I think is the way to go this year. Man I hope Gary improves a ton over the offseason because I cry at the thought of the guys that could be helping this team out right here and now if we could redo that pick.  

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