Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[Dr LBC]

On 11/24/2019 at 9:59 PM, PARROTHEAD said:

But he had a good title run and a span at top billing. I get Woods is injured. But he and Naka both seem to have been booted down quickly when stories were done. Instead of finding new for them.

When HBK returned from his back injury. He went years with only 1 WC match, but carried many a big feud. And look at guys of the past from Piper to British Bulldog to Tully that carried feuds without having to be "Mr. Top Billing", but making a big name for themselves with keeping in a upper tier and having constant feuds. WWE has no big names because they keep kicking down whenever someone is done with a push now. Goes for Naka, Joe, Rusuv, Braun and now Kofi. Thats what I was more getting at.

Sorry, but Kofi shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as HBK.  When he came back from the back injury he'd hit heights of being sustainably over with the fans two or three times over as high as Kofi has ever been.  And that's completely setting aside the amount of backstage politicking and power-accumulation Shawn had achieved in the 90's and early 00's or him having the ace in the hole of Hunter getting more and more of a soundboard spot in the old man's mind.

Joe got injured, he's not really an apt one to include in that group.  A greater question might be how much of the prominent pushes that have gone to McIntyre (very much deserved) and Corbin (not really deserved; he's improved, but he was horrible to begin with so that needs to be considered for context) would have been shaved off for Joe had he not gotten injured?  The only thing really working against Joe right now is his age, but I'm confident he'll get another ME push or two before he gets too long in the tooth.  He's not-so-arguably been hurt the most by Brock deciding he wasn't going to go back to UFC and re-sign with WWE, because he has shown capable of doing the same type of bully/dominant/dangerous monster heel that Brock gets booked as, but he's shown he does it better.

Vince's biggest issue is that he's convinced himself that if a guy has sparked big heat with the audience in the past that that heat can be reignited whenever in the future, even if the flame hasn't been kept going.   And his attempts to do that (as they've been hamhandedly trying to do with Seth all throughout the summer and fall) usually ends up in them doing it at the expense of the guys who have cultivated more organic heat in that span.  I think something that's really hurting them is that the locker room leaders are all WWE-made guys who've never had to work their way up through the grind of the independents (which is the closest thing to the territories - but still not be mistaken for the territories) and instead are folks that learned the "go along to get along" sycophantic mentality the rubs Vince the right way.  The shift from Taker to Cena and now to, by my guess, Roman and (I really don't know that RAW has one; it should be Orton but he's never really had the personality for it and never seemed to want to take up the mantle - which is ultimately a very Orton family thing).

[Troy Brown]

22 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

War Games was phenomenal. The women's match was the highlight of the weekend imo. Then the main event delivered as well. Survivor Series was mediocre as hell unfortunately. I remembered why I don't watch Raw or SD anymore.

I liked the women's match a bunch. It was different and the Kai turn was vicious. But I thought the rest of the show was pretty par for the course. 

There is however a takeover in PDX in February and I imagine I'll check that out 

 

[Dr LBC]

5 minutes ago, Troy Brown said:

was this supposed to be a cornette joke cause it was p bad

Nah.  Corny actually puts over the girls that can actually work (he's critical of women trying to do all the same stuff as the men when they're not as physically capable as the men because it makes the work look more exposed/assisted which hurts the business on both ends; you'll note, he's rarely if ever critical of powerhouse women like Kong or Jazzy Gabbert doing the same power moves the male talent do).  If anything, Cornette is openly critical of women being used in the ring simply because "they look hot" or at least them being presented as competitors versus used as "enhancement talent" like managers, valets, etc.

Corny is BIG on Baszler, just as he was big on Ronda.  And he's very quickly coming around on Rhea (I haven't heard his latest assessment coming out of this weekend, but based on his track record pattern, I expect her to have grown on him exponentially after this last weekend).

[Troy Brown]

 

1 minute ago, The LBC said:

Nah.  Corny actually puts over the girls that can actually work (he's critical of women trying to do all the same stuff as the men when they're not as physically capable as the men because it makes the work look more exposed/assisted which hurts the business on both ends; you'll note, he's rarely if ever critical of powerhouse women like Kong or Jazzy Gabbert doing the same power moves the male talent do).  If anything, Cornette is openly critical of women being used in the ring simply because "they look hot" or at least them being presented as competitors versus used as "enhancement talent" like managers, valets, etc.

I was speaking in regards to the long winded nature of the joke that ends up not being funny and only meant to insult 

[Mox]

3 minutes ago, Troy Brown said:

I liked the women's match a bunch. It was different and the Kai turn was vicious. But I thought the rest of the show was pretty par for the course. 

There is however a takeover in PDX in February and I imagine I'll check that out 

 

It was by far my favorite match of the weekend. I haven't watched NXT in ages but totally want to see Tegan/Dakota now. Hell yeah. I'm saving up for DoN II or All Out II (if we can get tickets, struck out HARD last year) but going to a Takeover would be badass.

[Troy Brown]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:28 PM, Jeezla said:

god damn Adam Cole is the man for taking that bump. Awesome ppv

Yeah I thought Ciampa would at least let go of his legs to make it a safer bump but he held that thing till the mat. Scary bump for sure 

[Troy Brown]

Just now, Bullet Club said:

It was by far my favorite match of the weekend. I haven't watched NXT in ages but totally want to see Tegan/Dakota now. Hell yeah. I'm saving up for DoN II or All Out II (if we can get tickets, struck out HARD last year) but going to a Takeover would be badass.

Double or Nothing is much more worth it if you're torn between the two at all. Getting around Vegas is much easier than Chicago especially given that the Sears Centre is over an hour outside of the city and ride sharing apps die at the end of the show with so many people trying to use them in a not so busy area. 

I went to both, prolly sound a lot nerdier than I am but living across the country as my best buds, it made the most sense to splurge on the events to see my pals if we were gonna meet up anywhere. 

[Troy Brown]

I fell asleep during the first match of SS last night after I was annoyed Io and Belair on team nxt with no explanation beyond some crappy internet segment

[Troy Brown]

@The LBC So are you a Cornette fan or what? I want the BOTTOM OF THIS

I listen to his takes on things frequently after a buzz moment because I like listening to overreactions and stupid takes (love espn shows) 

I think Cornette nails about 15-20 percent of his takes and his shtick of insulting and berating lessens most of it. 

 

[Dr LBC]

Just now, Troy Brown said:

@The LBC So are you a Cornette fan or what? I want the BOTTOM OF THIS

I listen to his takes on things frequently after a buzz moment because I like listening to overreactions and stupid takes (love espn shows) 

I think Cornette nails about 15-20 percent of his takes and his shtick of insulting and berating lessens most of it. 

 

Fan?  Not the word I would use.  I think he's spot-on on a number of his takes though.  He holds grudges and doesn't let go of them, but he's no more of a hypocrite (and he is to a degree) than many of the people who go out of their way to go after him.  His thinking that talent actually ought to put more effort into selling and that more guys need to learn how to make it look like they're not assisting on moves, as opposed to it being transparently clear they are (which is made worse by how overexposed some of these moves have become that they've lost their specialness are the modern day equivalent of an arm-drag), is completely righteous; @Bullet Club and I even had a discussion about this very topic several pages back.

Jim puts his foot in his mouth a ton, but he also gets a lot of self-righteous hate from people who excuse it when it comes from other places, but go out of their way to try and rake Cornette over the coals for it because he's critical of the guys that they believe are the best in the world (and while they've worked with the best in the world, they're not the best in the world... and this isn't me soapboxing NXT or WWE either - the best in the world are in New Japan).  I'm more an outward fan of Jim's cohost Brian Last; the dude knows what he's talking about.

[PARROTHEAD]

1 hour ago, Troy Brown said:

was this supposed to be a cornette joke cause it was p bad

Was no joke to it. WWE wanting so badly to cater to the "wrestling geek" over a national blue collar audience is whats killing the product for so many millions.

Ugly women in spandex rolling around, a 5'2 and 5'7 guys wrestling for Heavyweight Championships at one of their Big4 PPVs. Its come beyond a joke in catering to 1 small fanbase type.

[Troy Brown]

1 minute ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Was no joke to it. WWE wanting so badly to cater to the "wrestling geek" over a national blue collar audience is whats killing the product for so many millions.

Ugly women in spandex rolling around, a 5'2 and 5'7 guys wrestling for Heavyweight Championships at one of their Big4 PPVs. Its come beyond a joke in catering to 1 small fanbase type.

jesus dude you sound like a neanderthal. here's hoping you don't look like one too.

[PARROTHEAD]

1 hour ago, The LBC said:

Sorry, but Kofi shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as HBK.  When he came back from the back injury he'd hit heights of being sustainably over with the fans two or three times over as high as Kofi has ever been.  And that's completely setting aside the amount of backstage politicking and power-accumulation Shawn had achieved in the 90's and early 00's or him having the ace in the hole of Hunter getting more and more of a soundboard spot in the old man's mind.

Joe got injured, he's not really an apt one to include in that group.  A greater question might be how much of the prominent pushes that have gone to McIntyre (very much deserved) and Corbin (not really deserved; he's improved, but he was horrible to begin with so that needs to be considered for context) would have been shaved off for Joe had he not gotten injured?  The only thing really working against Joe right now is his age, but I'm confident he'll get another ME push or two before he gets too long in the tooth.  He's not-so-arguably been hurt the most by Brock deciding he wasn't going to go back to UFC and re-sign with WWE, because he has shown capable of doing the same type of bully/dominant/dangerous monster heel that Brock gets booked as, but he's shown he does it better.

Vince's biggest issue is that he's convinced himself that if a guy has sparked big heat with the audience in the past that that heat can be reignited whenever in the future, even if the flame hasn't been kept going.   And his attempts to do that (as they've been hamhandedly trying to do with Seth all throughout the summer and fall) usually ends up in them doing it at the expense of the guys who have cultivated more organic heat in that span.  I think something that's really hurting them is that the locker room leaders are all WWE-made guys who've never had to work their way up through the grind of the independents (which is the closest thing to the territories - but still not be mistaken for the territories) and instead are folks that learned the "go along to get along" sycophantic mentality the rubs Vince the right way.  The shift from Taker to Cena and now to, by my guess, Roman and (I really don't know that RAW has one; it should be Orton but he's never really had the personality for it and never seemed to want to take up the mantle - which is ultimately a very Orton family thing).

I was more in terms talking about continuing with a guy in the upper tier than comparing him to HBK. Was how HBK was used.

Joe has been popping up and then vanishing since he was signed. Hes never been continuously used over the long haul hes been there. And every time propped up, hes knocked down by some babyface and vanishes from the scene for periods.

Kofi is a guy, like I mentioned the British Bulldog. Bulldog was pushed to the upper tier and stayed there floating around. He could tag team, he could face in a feud or he could heel it up. Kofi could be that type of versatile especially since part of a 3 man New Day where he can be put in singles action with IC, US or other belts when need be along with carrying quality feuds.

[Mox]

1 hour ago, Troy Brown said:

Double or Nothing is much more worth it if you're torn between the two at all. Getting around Vegas is much easier than Chicago especially given that the Sears Centre is over an hour outside of the city and ride sharing apps die at the end of the show with so many people trying to use them in a not so busy area. 

I went to both, prolly sound a lot nerdier than I am but living across the country as my best buds, it made the most sense to splurge on the events to see my pals if we were gonna meet up anywhere. 

The plan was to try for DoN II and if we miss out again try for All Out II. I was in Chicago a few weeks prior to All Out and can definitely see what you mean. I'm not optimistic of our chances for either tbh. That's awesome that you went to both. DoN was the best show of the year imo.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Bullet Club

[PARROTHEAD]

5 minutes ago, Troy Brown said:

jesus dude you sound like a neanderthal. here's hoping you don't look like one too.

How so? WWE has been rendered to 2-2.5 million viewers. 50% of those are over 50. Over 80% are over 30. 20 years ago the avg age of a viewer was 24.  NXT had an avg age of 54 mentioned by Metzer a couple weeks back.

A 5'2 and 5'7 guy in HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE matches along with whatever Uumpa Lumpas NXT had for their title matches along with some butch chicks might be to your liking. But for the MASS MAJORITY that had been wrestling fans through the years. Its not flippin the bill and not drawing new viewers.

But hey. You be happy with WWE catering to the type of fan you are while everyone else gets ignored. Why care about anyone else when youre getting what you want.