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Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!


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Just now, Bullet Club said:

I agree WWE has turned most of their belts irrelevant, and something like Razor/HBK aint happening in WWE in 2021. In AEW? It's possible. They are more protective of their belts.

To be fair, he didn't get a chance to carry the company. He got hurt as he was getting his true run. When he retired and came back he carried Smackdown as champ for a good while and gave Kofi a big moment before WWE ruined him.

I'm not so sure. I think you're underselling Bryan's relevance. His popularity is pretty special for this era. Now, it could also be that I didn't get to catch Hall in his prime but from the conversations/discussions I've had Bryan is headed for a tier that's as high as you can get in this era. He's basically the modern day Bret.

Yeah, I don't see it. He's popular with smarks more than anything. LIS, I feel like he's the guy that they really wanted to push out of the indies after Punk.

And what tier is that? The legends of this era are never going to carry the same weight as the legends of eras past. For as good as Kenny Omega is, he's never going to be held in the same regard as a Flair, Hogan, Austin or Rock. That's just the reality of the current wrestling landscape. LIS, I think that's where things get lost in translation. You want to say one of the all-timers "of his era," sure, Bryan can and does deserve that. IRT wrestling in general, it's just never going to happen.

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Just now, beekay414 said:

Yeah, I don't see it. He's popular with smarks more than anything. LIS, I feel like he's the guy that they really wanted to push out of the indies after Punk.

And what tier is that? The legends of this era are never going to carry the same weight as the legends of eras past. For as good as Kenny Omega is, he's never going to be held in the same regard as a Flair, Hogan, Austin or Rock. That's just the reality of the current wrestling landscape. LIS, I think that's where things get lost in translation. You want to say one of the all-timers "of his era," sure, Bryan can and does deserve that. IRT wrestling in general, it's just never going to happen.

I mean his yes chant was blowing up worldwide when he was at his peak so it was a pretty big deal for more than smarks. I think the indy comment is true but I don't think it's a negative. I haven't even talked about his indy career.

I guess in terms of story, accolades, talent or popularity I don't see how Bret Hart can be an all-timer but Daniel can't be only because more people watched Bret. Let's not forget that ratings tanked when he was champion so it's not like he was any type of special draw. Kenny is something else entirely. I'd argue he's the most influential wrestler of the last decade+. He's literally the reason AEW exists. Without him, we're stuck with Raw and SD running pro wrestling into the ground.

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1 minute ago, Bullet Club said:

He's literally the reason AEW exists. Without him, we're stuck with Raw and SD running pro wrestling into the ground

I get that but in the grand scheme of things, he's never going to reach Flair/Austin/Rock tier greatness. Just not going to happen in this landscape. Can argue until you're blue in the face, it's just the reality of where the industry is compared to then.

The modern era of wrestling isn't going to be conducive to producing all-time great legends. Just isn't going to happen. The sport is nowhere near the popularity it used to be. That's the main issue. I mean, we're applauding a PPV that did a MITB WWE PPV numbers as some type of game changing moment. That should speak volumes in itself.

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5 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

I don't see how Bret Hart can be an all-timer but Daniel can't be only because more people watched Bret

Sure you can. Go ask casuals or random people whether they've heard of Bret Hart or not. Then do it with Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson. See which one resonates more. That's my point. Modern day wrestlers don't transcend to mainstream the way they did back then. The name Bret Hart is well known. The name Daniel Bryan isn't. Eyes matter whether modern day wrestling supporters want to believe it or not.

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3 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

I mean his yes chant was blowing up worldwide when he was at his peak so it was a pretty big deal for more than smarks. I think the indy comment is true but I don't think it's a negative. I haven't even talked about his indy career.

I guess in terms of story, accolades, talent or popularity I don't see how Bret Hart can be an all-timer but Daniel can't be only because more people watched Bret. Let's not forget that ratings tanked when he was champion so it's not like he was any type of special draw. Kenny is something else entirely. I'd argue he's the most influential wrestler of the last decade+. He's literally the reason AEW exists. Without him, we're stuck with Raw and SD running pro wrestling into the ground.

What exactly is he influencing? AEW needing him makes him important, not influential.

 

 

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Just now, beekay414 said:

I get that but in the grand scheme of things, he's never going to reach Flair/Austin/Rock tier greatness. Just not going to happen in this landscape. Can argue until you're blue in the face, it's just the reality of where the industry is compared to then.

The modern era of wrestling isn't going to be conducive to producing all-time great legends. Just isn't going to happen. The sport is nowhere near the popularity it used to be. That's the main issue. I mean, we're applauding a PPV that did a MITB WWE PPV numbers as some type of game changing moment. That should speak volumes in itself.

Oh, for sure. He's never touching their status. No doubt, but again those are widely considered the GOAT's.

The thing with grading legends is that there are different things to evaluate. If you're going strictly off accolades than Sammartino or Flair are the GOAT. If you go off of pure talent maybe it's Austin or Angle. If you go by best in-ring maybe it's HBK. If you go by draw then it could be Hogan, Rock or Austin.

When you factor all of them in you get different results. I don't think Daniel should be held responsible for WWE alienating their audience. He did everything he could, and reached unreal highs that were attitude era-esque. Is he ever going to hit Rock/Austin/Hogan level? No. But I don't see why he can't hit the tier below or whatever tier Bret is in, and all things considered that's still really high up. 

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4 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Sure you can. Go ask casuals or random people whether they've heard of Bret Hart or not. Then do it with Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson. See which one resonates more. That's my point. Modern day wrestlers don't transcend to mainstream the way they did back then. The name Bret Hart is well known. The name Daniel Bryan isn't. Eyes matter whether modern day wrestling supporters want to believe it or not.

I'm curious if this would actually hold up tbh. I value character, charisma, and mic skills over in-ring personally. I don't think I fit the mold you're saying I do. Daniel Bryan is nowhere near my personal favorites.

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Just now, Bullet Club said:

Kenny Omega? He's influential because without him AEW would not exist.

Again, that doesn't make him influential. What is he influencing? Did Kenny Omega change the way wrestlers do their promos? The way they dress? The way the wrestle? What is Kenny influencing? AEW not existing without him has nothing to do with influence. Do you understand what influence means?

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Just now, Bullet Club said:

I'm curious if this would actually hold up tbh. I value character, charisma, and mic skills over in-ring personally. I don't think I fit the mold you're saying I do. Daniel Bryan is nowhere near my personal favorites.

I'm the same way. Otherwise I probably wouldn't be such a huge Hall mark. I'm just saying, it's an era difference. I'm willing to bet that more people know the name Bret Hart than they do Daniel Bryan. It's just a product of when they both wrestled. And I know some people are going to mention nostalgia and that's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm talking about pure wrestling popularity. It's not where it was and as a result, even guys that are more talented than past generations, are going to suffer from it. I'm just speaking from the reality side of this. Wrestling is a niche market nowadays. 

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Just now, Jeezla said:

Again, that doesn't make him influential. What is he influencing? Did Kenny Omega change the way wrestlers do their promos? The way they dress? The way the wrestle? What is Kenny influencing? AEW not existing without him has nothing to do with influence. Do you understand what influence means?

He influenced the creation of the company that just sold the most non-WWE PPV's in 22 years. That's what he is influencing. He's literally changed the landscape of wrestling. Without him, there is only one major wrestling company in the US. Because of him there is another, and one that could potentially become the top wrestling company in the world. How is that not influential?

He's also clearly influenced the way people wrestle. Outside of the superkick, the V-Trigger is probably the most copied move in wrestling now.

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1 minute ago, Bullet Club said:

He influenced the creation of the company that just sold the most non-WWE PPV's in 22 years. That's what he is influencing. He's literally changed the landscape of wrestling. Without him, there is only one major wrestling company in the US. Because of him there is another, and one that could potentially become the top wrestling company in the world. How is that not influential?

He's also clearly influenced the way people wrestle. Outside of the superkick, the V-Trigger is probably the most copied move in wrestling now.

Was he more influential than the young bucks?

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