Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[Troy Brown]

12 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

It’s a real simple concept , try to follow along. You  don’t need to like everything from people you know or people you’re a fan of ! 
 

There’s a musician you like, you don’t have to like every song .

 

An actor , you don’t have to like all their movies.

 

We kinda understanding now ?

 

Im trying to have a discussion but if you guys want to be sarcastic and such, that’s fine. It’ll go both ways. 
 

Again, it’s ok if people don’t like things you don’t . It’s not saying anything bad about you as a person. You can calm down! It’s okay ! 

Jfc. Jumps on the internet to tell us how the elite ruined a match (which story they're also entirely responsible for) then says "Elite fans will like anything they do, guess that's why the company isn't growing" and then says "it's okay that people don't like things you do"

You're contradicting yourself. 

[Rainmaker90]

28 minutes ago, Troy Brown said:

Jfc. Jumps on the internet to tell us how the elite ruined a match (which story they're also entirely responsible for) then says "Elite fans will like anything they do, guess that's why the company isn't growing" and then says "it's okay that people don't like things you do"

You're contradicting yourself. 

I gave my opinion on a match and people got all pissy. I’m not saying you’re wrong for liking it, I said I didn’t like it and you can’t handle it. 
 

Please tell me how I contradicted myself,  or are we not positive on how to use the word?

[PARROTHEAD]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker90 said:

I gave my opinion on a match and people got all pissy. I’m not saying you’re wrong for liking it, I said I didn’t like it and you can’t handle it. 
 

Please tell me how I contradicted myself,  or are we not positive on how to use the word?

Thats the whole reason I come here. lol

 

[Rainmaker90]

30 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Thats the whole reason I come here. lol

 

People getting pissy at me?! Lol 

[PARROTHEAD]

17 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

People getting pissy at me?! Lol 

That too.

Were wrestling fans. Its what we do. We fuss at each other over a male soap opera. lol

[Rainmaker90]

14 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

That too.

Were wrestling fans. Its what we do. We fuss at each other over a male soap opera. lol

🤣 I guess it happens everywhere . Like I said , I feel like a man without a country . 
 

I hate WWE 

Idt the Cornette people would like it that I like Dark Order and Orange Cassidy . 
 

and the AEW crowd doesn’t accept me because I don’t like the bucks! 

[Edge]

In this case i do think, that the Bucks involvement made sense. First of all it all goes back to All Out 2019. Hangman asked the Bucks to be there ringside in his title match vs. Jericho, which they kind of refused. Hangman went in there alone and lost. Afterwards he was angry, that the Bucks weren't there to support him. Their involvement at Full Gear is a reminiscent of what happened back then.

You said their involvement took away something from the match. I would disagree and think the opposite was the case. First of all different hints were dropped on BTE. If you're watching BTE you should remember the time, were Hangman split from the Elite and were tensions between him and the Young Bucks rised. He lost his phone, which was found by someone who texted the Bucks and cemented the tensions and the split. Later it was revealed that this person was Matt Hardy, who earlier in this year confessed these actions to the Bucks. Later Matt was shown trying to catch up to Hangman, who was partying with his new friends of the Dark Order. It was suggested, that he wanted to apologize, but he left, after seeing the Hangman happy. No apology happend back then.

Some people are saying, that BTE shouldn't be invovled in storytelling, but that's the case for certain storys, especially the ones of the Elite. BTE is a part of the whole picture the Elite is telling us.

So when Hangman apologized for his actions against the Bucks on Rampage, all that played a part in the decision of the Bucks as well. Hangman was right, that he messed up before. But he was also right, that they were even. It fueled the possibility of an interference, which was the right thing to do, as the entire storyarc of Hangman is between him and the Elite. Not Kenny Omega, but the entire Elite, so it made sense to give us the option of an intereference of the Bucks as well. It was right, that the Hangman adressed the situation.

This lead us to Full Gear. We got the win of Bryan Danielson, which i think was a bit sad, because i would have loved to get the "upset" win from Miro, but ofc it made things more spicy for the Main Event. Probably everybody thought, that Hangman would win this match, but with the win of Danielson we now got a realisitic scenario, in which Kenny could have defended the title to build up the huge rematch vs. Danielson for the AEW World Championship. In that regard it was the right decision to use every option on the table. We got the interference of Don Callis. It made sense to write him out for the finish. We got the Bucks, which was also right, because it fueled the possibility of them attacking the Hangman, which could have lead to a win of Omega. That they didn't interfere and let the things play out, will build up the next saga in the entire Elite story. Something between the Bucks, Omega and Cole. Whatever it will be, but that's going to be the next big chapter. The end of all these stories will be a reunion of the entire Elite. Most likely in a few years. In that regard it was the right decision to have the Bucks involved with this title match. It was the right decision for them to accept the fate and the developement of the Hangman. It was the right move and it was meant to express their apology to the Hangman. It was the right move, to show that there is a possibilitiy of the Elite coming back together one day, which again is the end of their entire story in AEW. I'm sure of that.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Edge

[Rainmaker90]

53 minutes ago, Edge said:

In this case i do think, that the Bucks involvement made sense. First of all it all goes back to All Out 2019. Hangman asked the Bucks to be there ringside in his title match vs. Jericho, which they kind of refused. Hangman went in there alone and lost. Afterwards he was angry, that the Bucks weren't there to support him. Their involvement at Full Gear is a reminiscent of what happened back then.

You said their involvement took away something from the match. I would disagree and think the opposite was the case. First of all different hints were dropped on BTE. If you're watching BTE you should remember the time, were Hangman split from the Elite and were tensions between him and the Young Bucks rised. He lost his phone, which was found by someone who texted the Bucks and cemented the tensions and the split. Later it was revealed that this person was Matt Hardy, who earlier in this year confessed these actions to the Bucks. Later Matt was shown trying to catch up to Hangman, who was partying with his new friends of the Dark Order. It was suggested, that he wanted to apologize, but he left, after seeing the Hangman happy. No apology happend back then.

Some people are saying, that BTE shouldn't be invovled in storytelling, but that's the case for certain storys, especially the ones of the Elite. BTE is a part of the whole picture the Elite is telling us.

So when Hangman apologized for his actions against the Bucks on Rampage, all that played a part in the decision of the Bucks as well. Hangman was right, that he messed up before. But he was also right, that they were even. It fueled the possibility of an interference, which was the right thing to do, as the entire storyarc of Hangman is between him and the Elite. Not Kenny Omega, but the entire Elite, so it made sense to give us the option of an intereference of the Bucks as well. It was right, that the Hangman adressed the situation.

This lead us to Full Gear. We got the win of Bryan Danielson, which i think was a bit sad, because i would have loved to get the "upset" win from Miro, but ofc it made things more spicy for the Main Event. Probably everybody thought, that Hangman would win this match, but with the win of Danielson we now got a realisitic scenario, in which Kenny could have defended the title to build up the huge rematch vs. Danielson for the AEW World Championship. In that regard it was the right decision to use every option on the table. We got the interference of Don Callis. It made sense to write him out for the finish. We got the Bucks, which was also right, because it fueled the possibility of them attacking the Hangman, which could have lead to a win of Omega. That they didn't interfere and let the things play out, will build up the next saga in the entire Elite story. Something between the Bucks, Omega and Cole. Whatever it will be, but that's going to be the next big chapter. The end of all these stories will be a reunion of the entire Elite. Most likely in a few years. In that regard it was the right decision to have the Bucks involved with this title match. It was the right decision for them to accept the fate and the developement of the Hangman. It was the right move and it was meant to express their apology to the Hangman. It was the right move, to show that there is a possibilitiy of the Elite coming back together one day, which again is the end of their entire story in AEW. I'm sure of that.

That was a real well thought out post, I appreciate it . I see your point, but I still don’t agree. 
 

The one part I have a problem with and I think is a BIG problem with AEW is that nobody should have to watch BTE for any story. AEW can be too insider, and I think it turns off a lot of people. AEW is made up of smart hardcore fans , and they generally know what’s going on without AEW explaining things. If they want to grow , they need to make the general wrestling audience feel welcome. Most people don’t like watching tv series from the middle anymore as they feel they’re so far behind and that’s how casuals or non hardcore fans feel watching AEW sometimes. 
 

Wednesday night Tomohiro Ishii is in a match. Ishii was one of my favorite wrestlers of all time . What percentage of American wrestling fans know who he is ? Probably a very small amount . Why would they tune in for him? Casuals feel left out because AEW assumes everyone should know what the hardcores do and if they feel that or that they have to watch every show , or YouTube non wrestling shows for information, they’re probably not going to watch . 

[Deadpulse]

7 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

That was a real well thought out post, I appreciate it . I see your point, but I still don’t agree. 
 

The one part I have a problem with and I think is a BIG problem with AEW is that nobody should have to watch BTE for any story. AEW can be too insider, and I think it turns off a lot of people. AEW is made up of smart hardcore fans , and they generally know what’s going on without AEW explaining things. If they want to grow , they need to make the general wrestling audience feel welcome. Most people don’t like watching tv series from the middle anymore as they feel they’re so far behind and that’s how casuals or non hardcore fans feel watching AEW sometimes. 
 

Wednesday night Tomohiro Ishii is in a match. Ishii was one of my favorite wrestlers of all time . What percentage of American wrestling fans know who he is ? Probably a very small amount . Why would they tune in for him? Casuals feel left out because AEW assumes everyone should know what the hardcores do and if they feel that or that they have to watch every show , or YouTube non wrestling shows for information, they’re probably not going to watch . 

This seems a bit myopic. You are right in that most people wont know who Ishii is, but its not the entire show. Giving hardcore fans a treat like that is not a bad thing. It won't pull in new viewers but one of many matches on the card doesn't have to and it serves to endear themselves to their core audience and maintain them. You can throw a "you will never lose that audience" cliche at me but that is simply not true. Again, yes this wont bring in new American viewers but it wasn't supposed to, there are other matches and draws for that. 

And as far as BTE goes, while it can enhance the story a bit, it NEVER gives major story beats. You do not have to watch BTE for any story. If you want a small nod to an ongoing work, it is SOMETIMES there (and honestly its super rare, its mostly just stupid bits). If you just watch Dynamite and Rampage its all there for you. If anything happens on Dark or Elevation that matters the announcers tell you, but again, super rare. Before you throw this Bucks thing in my face, I would say let's give Dynamite a watch before we judge it. For the record, the only thing on BTE about it was Cutler's footage of the PPV. 

[Edge]

Exactly. BTE gives you a few extras, that add some intrigue to a story.. It's nice to know them, but i don't think you necessairly need to know it to get the point AEW is trying to say with it's story.

In this case, i think BTE gives a little more background for the Bucks accepting the result. But i don't think that a casual viewer will have a lot of problems to get what AEW is trying to tell us. The segment on Rampage was enough to open this possibility. I think it was quite obvious that the Bucks thought about the words the Hangman said, so i think the viewer got 2 options out of it:

1. Despite the warning, the Bucks interfere.

2. They accept it and don't interfere.

AEW chose option 2, only with the nod, that the Bucks came out, which opened both options. Like i said earlier, AEW played especially with the 1st option, due to the earlier win of Bryan Danielson, which raised the chance of a title defense by Kenny. So it added suspense. People looked at them and asked themselves, what the Bucks will do. Than the nod of Matt, showing they chose the 2nd option and did respect the warning of the Hangman, but also his apology. I think people will get it, as they already know their backstory from the beginning of AEW in 2019/2020. I don't think it's far stretched to get, why the Bucks did what they did. And of course it puts in fuel for a riff within the Elite, which i think will be one of the next big stories in AEW and continuing the entire Elite story.

Ofc. if someone is completly new, maybe starting 2-3 months ago, they might not know everything what happened in 2019 or the early parts of 2020, but i still think it should be enough for viewers to get it or accept it. But ofc, that's also the way AEW is telling their storys. They do challenge their audience time and time again and they do respond. Remember the nod on Dynamite from the Hangman, acknowledging Kota Ibushi, without saying his name. The people in the arena got it. Yes, because they are the hardcore fanbase, but like CM Punk said in an interview, are there any casual wrestling fans still existing? I don't even think that WWE necessairly attracts casual Wrestling fans, cause their viewership also is quite that far away from AEW, as one would maybe expect. I think it's right for AEW to keep going this way, as it's what puts them apart from other companies. They got their fanbase, and it's a fanbase, that still has the excitement and passion about Wrestling. It's the reason, why the atmosphere in AEW shows is so good and i think if there is a casual wrestling fan out there, this is also a selling point that can't be underestimated. They watch the show, feel the vibe and might get interested.

[Rainmaker90]

48 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

This seems a bit myopic. You are right in that most people wont know who Ishii is, but its not the entire show. Giving hardcore fans a treat like that is not a bad thing. It won't pull in new viewers but one of many matches on the card doesn't have to and it serves to endear themselves to their core audience and maintain them. You can throw a "you will never lose that audience" cliche at me but that is simply not true. Again, yes this wont bring in new American viewers but it wasn't supposed to, there are other matches and draws for that. 

And as far as BTE goes, while it can enhance the story a bit, it NEVER gives major story beats. You do not have to watch BTE for any story. If you want a small nod to an ongoing work, it is SOMETIMES there (and honestly its super rare, its mostly just stupid bits). If you just watch Dynamite and Rampage its all there for you. If anything happens on Dark or Elevation that matters the announcers tell you, but again, super rare. Before you throw this Bucks thing in my face, I would say let's give Dynamite a watch before we judge it. For the record, the only thing on BTE about it was Cutler's footage of the PPV. 

I’m just sick of the straw man counter arguments to what I say all the time. It’s really a waste of time . 
 

Never did I say they cater the whole show to hardcores . I point out that they do, and I think too much. 
 

I also never said it’s bad giving hardcores what they want . They should explain who Ishii is. Maybe a couple weeks of video packages . 
 

@Edgealluded to BTE being apart of the Kenny Hangman story and I responded it should never be apart of any story, let alone a main event story . 

 

[Edge]

Why? It's nice to have as an extra. Not needed to get the main story, but still something to give back to the fans, who are interested in BTE.

[Deadpulse]

36 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

I’m just sick of the straw man counter arguments to what I say all the time. It’s really a waste of time . 
 

Never did I say they cater the whole show to hardcores . I point out that they do, and I think too much. 
 

I also never said it’s bad giving hardcores what they want . They should explain who Ishii is. Maybe a couple weeks of video packages . 
 

@Edgealluded to BTE being apart of the Kenny Hangman story and I responded it should never be apart of any story, let alone a main event story . 

 

My points were not a strawman argument but ok. I also never said you said the whole show catered to hardcore fans. I am just pointing out one match every month or so does not disenfranchise new viewers. If you think that is still too much then I am not sure what your perspective is on that. I seriously doubt they would spend significant time on video packages for a one off match. If anything, that would push away new viewers who see them, get excited, then never see that guy again. 

[Mox]

Apparently Kenny is even more banged up than I thought, and he's getting checked out tomorrow to see if he's going to be taking a break right away. Apparently on top of his ailments he's been wrestling with vertigo, which seems insane.

[djw4bucs]

1 hour ago, Bullet Club said:

Apparently Kenny is even more banged up than I thought, and he's getting checked out tomorrow to see if he's going to be taking a break right away. Apparently on top of his ailments he's been wrestling with vertigo, which seems insane.

He deserves time off for sure, i heard he was working hurt most of this year especially with impact and that deal.

Now if he takes time off and since i think Danielson vs Hangman is coming on the first show on TBS in january, maybe they tease bucks omega splitting in the future with the bucks trying to make right with hangman, even tho i think cole should be the one turning face soon.