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17 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

sillyness IMO

No really.  People are just impatient.  It's smart building and marketing to be honest.  The fact that people can't handle a month of subtle build to a payoff is more than a little sad.  Re-debuting him then not being able to do a strike while the iron is hot without hotshotting something at a PPV is what the sillyness would be.

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So Saraya is basically just there to be a GM/Hype Woman for the women's division? I don't get it.

Toni Storm does nothing for me. They should just have Jade unify the women titles Ultimate Warrior/Hogan style, then make Jade vacate the TBS title and hold a tourny for it.

Serena Deeb should re-brand herself The Icewoman since she's basically female Dean Malenko.

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2 hours ago, Jeezla said:

So Saraya is basically just there to be a GM/Hype Woman for the women's division? I don't get it.

Toni Storm does nothing for me. They should just have Jade unify the women titles Ultimate Warrior/Hogan style, then make Jade vacate the TBS title and hold a tourny for it.

Serena Deeb should re-brand herself The Icewoman since she's basically female Dean Malenko.

Until she can get cleared (though, genuinely, if Tony signed her to a deal without some kind of assurance she'd be able to get cleared... dude's hopeless), there really isn't much else she can do.

Don't like the way Saraya buried Rosa last night though.

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So, random - but if you ask me, effing brilliant - way to book this White Rabbit thing to both utterly troll the audience and still deliver in a way that will leave people talking about it.

Say it with me... the White Rabbit is... Bo Dallas.

Because with Bo it literally doesn't have to make sense why this particular reference (a white rabbit) was chosen - he could legitimately play it off as music that got stuck in his head after hearing it in an elevator or waiting room.  Then, Bo is the catalyst to bringing Bray back.  Is this possibly borrowing overtly from the only salvageable part of Joe Gacy's gimmick?  Yes, but I don't care because that gimmick is stupid at its core.  Basically, you make Bo less a cult leader and more akin to the screw-loose leading the screw-loose (might there be an backhanded sleight at QAnon stuff there?  Yeah, probably, but if it's kept subtle enough it's just enough of story imitating life/reality that would make it work really well).

Throw in some of the tongue-in-cheek dialogue that occasionally threatens to break the 4th wall that Hunter is so fond of, like Bo and Bray referring to each other as "Brother Bo" and "Brother Bray," and this could have some real pull without shoehorning them into one particular avenue gimmick/alignment/storyline-wise, while leaving them plenty of flexibility moving forward; it could veer comedic, it could veer dark, it could do both, but it keeps both clear of having to resort to the kind of hokum that Vince saddled both of them with in previous incarnations.

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5 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

No really.  People are just impatient.  It's smart building and marketing to be honest.  The fact that people can't handle a month of subtle build to a payoff is more than a little sad.  Re-debuting him then not being able to do a strike while the iron is hot without hotshotting something at a PPV is what the sillyness would be.

I would generally agree with you except that they are giving dates for more teases. That's fine a few times maybe, but more than that its annoying. Slow build all you want, tease all you want, but don't fake us out like something big is gonna happen and then don't do anything. 

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On 9/29/2022 at 5:18 PM, Deadpulse said:

I would generally agree with you except that they are giving dates for more teases. That's fine a few times maybe, but more than that its annoying. Slow build all you want, tease all you want, but don't fake us out like something big is gonna happen and then don't do anything. 

Eh, feels more to me like they are purposefully trolling the internet phenomenon of reading into every little thing, like when Rotunda had the Vince quote on twitter for a while and that suddenly meant everything. 

Seems like these hints are just enough reality that we know who its about just on the surface, but also just enough of a stretch to be holding a mirror to people and the lengths they will go to connect a dot.

If this isnt completely Rotunda behind creating this reveal I would be surprised. Sure he might have one or two creative people helping, but Id bet this is all his creation and Hunter is just letting him take the reigns on this one.

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On 10/3/2022 at 7:13 AM, StLunatic88 said:

If this isnt completely Rotunda behind creating this reveal I would be surprised. Sure he might have one or two creative people helping, but Id bet this is all his creation and Hunter is just letting him take the reigns on this one.

By all accounts I've heard, it's Hunter and whoever the talent actually is that are behind this, the writers have had no part in the creation of this story whatsoever.  And having a go at how gullible and easily trolled internet folks can be is literally right up Rotunda's lane.

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17 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

By all accounts I've heard, it's Hunter and whoever the talent actually is that are behind this, the writers have had no part in the creation of this story whatsoever.  And having a go at how gullible and easily trolled internet folks can be is literally right up Rotunda's lane.

Very much what I was getting at. Like Im sure someone on creative is doing some of the research on where these links/hits lead to, and creation of the stuff we are actually seeing, but I have no doubt this is 100% all Routunda's baby. Hes probably been working on this whole thing since the day he left

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How do you guys feel about Jericho as ROH Champ?

Im not going to sit here and claim its going to be the best thing He's ever done or that the ROH title has been involved with, but I will say, I think its a great attempt to get more eyes on it, especially if this is the gambit to seal a TV deal for ROH. (I would think their ultimate goal is to run Dark tapings and Dynamite live shows on Wednesdays, and then do ROH tapings before Rampage live shows on Fridays, logistically speaking, because honestly Id like to see ROH back on Saturday Nights, but I could see them trying to run them the following Tuesdays)

But back to the Jericho Dishonor Tour, hes already taken the Belt off of Claudio, and I havent heard anyone say a bad word about the Bandido match, but where else can they go?  He said he wants to defeat every former ROH champ, but we know thats not possible. Just want to throw these thoughts out there;

Obvious No-go's under WWE Contract

  • Cody
  • Kevin Steen
  • Rodrick Strong
  • Tyler Black
  • Nigel McGuinness
  • James Gibson

Others Unlikely to be in AEW

  • Jonathan Gresham - Seems like that fence wont be mended quickly (especially not to take a pin from Jericho)
  • Michael Elgin - Guess he technically could, but thats alot of bad press to hand waive for not much payoff
  • Jay Briscoe - They have never been welcome in AEW, probably not going to start now
  • Tekeshi Morishima - Retired, and couldnt make the come back 4 years ago
  • Xavier - R.I.P.

There is a good list of who they do have already in AEW, who I would assume he does go through on this warpath (Rush, Jay Lethal, Christopher Daniels, Adam Cole, Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe) but there is a few of those you can in no way count on for this angle. Jerry Lynn is obviously not a real option in-ring, but could be part of the story. But Punk and O'Reilly are both on the shelf and cant be part of this. 

There is a group of these former champs that are contractual question marks, and that would be those currently (?) in IMPACT, which is admittedly a blind spot for me, so I dont know how well its going or more importantly what those contracts look like, and their ability to cross over. But I do know Eddie Edwards, Matt Taven and PCO are running the Honor No More stable over there, seems counter intuitive to have them fued with Jericho, but something could be done there. They were tangled with Davey Richards in that fued, who has already tried to throw himself into this angle on Twitter, so thats another option, and the final one over there is Dalton Castle, who is still part of the ROH 6-man Tag Champs. So if these guys would be available for this angle, it opens up alot more options. 

All of that leaves 3 more men on the table. The first, and most likely to be involved in my mind since he seems to have a decent relationship with AEW, is Homicide. He was at Grand Slam last year, feels like he could jump in and out, or stick around. Either way his relationship with Eddie Kingston is the obvious avenue to use when facing Jericho.

After that, the one I would think they would most like to get Jericho up against would be Low Ki. But the real question there is, would he play ball? I really doubt he would lay down for a pin from Jericho (unless he wants to be a major player in the ROH relaunch?) But they could definately run a stable attack DQ/no contest to avoid any issues. 

And the final one is Austin Aries... disregarding what baggage comes with him outside the ring, is he still even worth it for a company thats already dealing with a backstage image issue?

 

Alot there, I know. But my real questions are, how long do you think this can go? (I say as long as it needs to get him to the first rebooted ROH show, and drop the title soon after with who you want to build that company around) Who does he NEED to face off against along the way? (I think Danielson, Joe and Cole are the only Must matches) and who would you like to see as the "final boss" of this angle? (most would say Joe, but I think giving Adam Cole ROH for a while would be a great way to go assuming hes ring ready)

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2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

How do you guys feel about Jericho as ROH Champ?

Im not going to sit here and claim its going to be the best thing He's ever done or that the ROH title has been involved with, but I will say, I think its a great attempt to get more eyes on it, especially if this is the gambit to seal a TV deal for ROH. (I would think their ultimate goal is to run Dark tapings and Dynamite live shows on Wednesdays, and then do ROH tapings before Rampage live shows on Fridays, logistically speaking, because honestly Id like to see ROH back on Saturday Nights, but I could see them trying to run them the following Tuesdays)

But back to the Jericho Dishonor Tour, hes already taken the Belt off of Claudio, and I havent heard anyone say a bad word about the Bandido match, but where else can they go?  He said he wants to defeat every former ROH champ, but we know thats not possible. Just want to throw these thoughts out there;

Obvious No-go's under WWE Contract

  • Cody
  • Kevin Steen
  • Rodrick Strong
  • Tyler Black
  • Nigel McGuinness
  • James Gibson

Others Unlikely to be in AEW

  • Jonathan Gresham - Seems like that fence wont be mended quickly (especially not to take a pin from Jericho)
  • Michael Elgin - Guess he technically could, but thats alot of bad press to hand waive for not much payoff
  • Jay Briscoe - They have never been welcome in AEW, probably not going to start now
  • Tekeshi Morishima - Retired, and couldnt make the come back 4 years ago
  • Xavier - R.I.P.

There is a good list of who they do have already in AEW, who I would assume he does go through on this warpath (Rush, Jay Lethal, Christopher Daniels, Adam Cole, Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe) but there is a few of those you can in no way count on for this angle. Jerry Lynn is obviously not a real option in-ring, but could be part of the story. But Punk and O'Reilly are both on the shelf and cant be part of this. 

There is a group of these former champs that are contractual question marks, and that would be those currently (?) in IMPACT, which is admittedly a blind spot for me, so I dont know how well its going or more importantly what those contracts look like, and their ability to cross over. But I do know Eddie Edwards, Matt Taven and PCO are running the Honor No More stable over there, seems counter intuitive to have them fued with Jericho, but something could be done there. They were tangled with Davey Richards in that fued, who has already tried to throw himself into this angle on Twitter, so thats another option, and the final one over there is Dalton Castle, who is still part of the ROH 6-man Tag Champs. So if these guys would be available for this angle, it opens up alot more options. 

All of that leaves 3 more men on the table. The first, and most likely to be involved in my mind since he seems to have a decent relationship with AEW, is Homicide. He was at Grand Slam last year, feels like he could jump in and out, or stick around. Either way his relationship with Eddie Kingston is the obvious avenue to use when facing Jericho.

After that, the one I would think they would most like to get Jericho up against would be Low Ki. But the real question there is, would he play ball? I really doubt he would lay down for a pin from Jericho (unless he wants to be a major player in the ROH relaunch?) But they could definately run a stable attack DQ/no contest to avoid any issues. 

And the final one is Austin Aries... disregarding what baggage comes with him outside the ring, is he still even worth it for a company thats already dealing with a backstage image issue?

 

Alot there, I know. But my real questions are, how long do you think this can go? (I say as long as it needs to get him to the first rebooted ROH show, and drop the title soon after with who you want to build that company around) Who does he NEED to face off against along the way? (I think Danielson, Joe and Cole are the only Must matches) and who would you like to see as the "final boss" of this angle? (most would say Joe, but I think giving Adam Cole ROH for a while would be a great way to go assuming hes ring ready)

This still pales in comparison to the "Ring" of Honor for Cody's, in my opinion.  And if Ring of Honor isn't going to have it's own show and Jericho's not going there to put more eyes on that show, this is just another ego trip for Jericho in my book.  Can it have some utility?  Sure.  But you just know Jericho's doing this so that he can take shots at other ROH champions not in the promotion who he can't/won't get booked against - which is pretty low brow, but then so is 99% of what the JAS does, which is Ed Ferrara level stuff.

If they're actually serious about this, let's see if Tony shells out the money to bring in Davey Richards, Eddie Edwards, or Dalton Castle; though the only match I'd have any interest in seeing (because I have no desire to see Joe punked out and made to job to Jericho) would be Jericho against PCO, and maybe... maybe Low Ki.

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2 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

If they're actually serious about this, let's see if Tony shells out the money to bring in Davey Richards, Eddie Edwards, or Dalton Castle; though the only match I'd have any interest in seeing (because I have no desire to see Joe punked out and made to job to Jericho) would be Jericho against PCO, and maybe... maybe Low Ki.

I definitely understand what youre saying about Jericho, and I acknowledge I tend to have rose colored glasses with him, but I am choosing to believe he is doing this in an effort to get ROH back off the ground with/for Tony. (wouldnt be shocked if he is also angling for some larger position inside/backstage with ROH by doing so) So I am fully admitting that I could be VERY wrong here, but I think everyone's end goal is ROH back on TV. They already have the infrastructure to do it, they already have the roster that can be ported in from the overstuffed AEW roster. And most of all, it seems the PPV numbers are doing well enough to support a show somewhere in the WB/D catalog of channels. 

Speaking of, I think theres a good chance we get a Final Battle announcement in the next few weeks (would line up with the DBD announcement timeline, and AEW will be done with their shows till the spring), especially since that could be the crescendo of this angle, in the middle or very end of December (not Christmas weekend) as the new year may be the perfect time for starting up that ROH show. If not then, it will be the Spring, and Im not sure they want Jericho to hold it that long. (I say that based upon how quickly they are booking these title defenses)

 

When using that timeline (new show in January) I dont think they are bringing in a whole bunch of the outside former champs, 2 or 3 maybe. With Jericho/Danielson being the draw for the Toronto show (makes sense), most of these are really one night/week feuds. I understand you not wanting to see Jericho going over most of these guys, but the whole point is that he is spitting on the name of ROH, so none of these have to be clean wins, or even actuall wins at all. And with the JAS there are so many ways to accomplish this. 

So after Toronto, he takes on Rush on the Rampage of Halloween weekend. The week after that, the twitter promos finally pay off with Davey Richards (going at it with the rest of JAS, not actually Jericho) on that first Rampage of November. Next, its the run up to Full Gear (he wont wrestle there) so he finally goads Christopher Daniels into a match after weeks of talking down to him. After he is defeated, and Kingston saves Daniels from a JAS beatdown, they announce that they convinced someone to come back for Jericho, and on the go home Rampage he takes on Homicide. Havent fully thought it out, but while running his mouth at Full Gear, he is confronted by Low Ki, and challenged for the following shows in Chicago. From there its a few week encounter with Jay Lethal and friends, and finally leading up to the Main Event at Final Battle against Samoa Joe. 

Since he has already done the disrespect already, most of these matches he takes in some underhanded way. Low blow to Rush, using the ropes beating Richards, using the bat and the belt on others, the JAS storm the ring when Low Ki is about to win to take the DQ. And the only way he can beat Joe is because Joe is pulling double duty at Final Battle (something about all Titles need to be defended, and he still has the TV Title).

After taking down those 10 former ROH Champions, Jericho is on Dynamite still ****ting on ROH even on the eve of its first rebooted show that Saturday (Jan 7th), claiming he has nothing left to prove, that the best that the history of ROH had to offer couldnt take him down, that they dont deserve a champion as great as him, that he might not even show up on Saturday. And its then, that we get what weve been waiting for... Adam Cole Bay Bay! Hopefully he hasnt been back on TV at all before this and you have youre massive Main Event for the first show, and a New Champion that everyone can get behind for as long as you need to, until he turns and you can build your new stars off of him.

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2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I definitely understand what youre saying about Jericho, and I acknowledge I tend to have rose colored glasses with him, but I am choosing to believe he is doing this in an effort to get ROH back off the ground with/for Tony. (wouldnt be shocked if he is also angling for some larger position inside/backstage with ROH by doing so) So I am fully admitting that I could be VERY wrong here, but I think everyone's end goal is ROH back on TV. They already have the infrastructure to do it, they already have the roster that can be ported in from the overstuffed AEW roster. And most of all, it seems the PPV numbers are doing well enough to support a show somewhere in the WB/D catalog of channels. 

Speaking of, I think theres a good chance we get a Final Battle announcement in the next few weeks (would line up with the DBD announcement timeline, and AEW will be done with their shows till the spring), especially since that could be the crescendo of this angle, in the middle or very end of December (not Christmas weekend) as the new year may be the perfect time for starting up that ROH show. If not then, it will be the Spring, and Im not sure they want Jericho to hold it that long. (I say that based upon how quickly they are booking these title defenses)

 

When using that timeline (new show in January) I dont think they are bringing in a whole bunch of the outside former champs, 2 or 3 maybe. With Jericho/Danielson being the draw for the Toronto show (makes sense), most of these are really one night/week feuds. I understand you not wanting to see Jericho going over most of these guys, but the whole point is that he is spitting on the name of ROH, so none of these have to be clean wins, or even actuall wins at all. And with the JAS there are so many ways to accomplish this. 

So after Toronto, he takes on Rush on the Rampage of Halloween weekend. The week after that, the twitter promos finally pay off with Davey Richards (going at it with the rest of JAS, not actually Jericho) on that first Rampage of November. Next, its the run up to Full Gear (he wont wrestle there) so he finally goads Christopher Daniels into a match after weeks of talking down to him. After he is defeated, and Kingston saves Daniels from a JAS beatdown, they announce that they convinced someone to come back for Jericho, and on the go home Rampage he takes on Homicide. Havent fully thought it out, but while running his mouth at Full Gear, he is confronted by Low Ki, and challenged for the following shows in Chicago. From there its a few week encounter with Jay Lethal and friends, and finally leading up to the Main Event at Final Battle against Samoa Joe. 

Since he has already done the disrespect already, most of these matches he takes in some underhanded way. Low blow to Rush, using the ropes beating Richards, using the bat and the belt on others, the JAS storm the ring when Low Ki is about to win to take the DQ. And the only way he can beat Joe is because Joe is pulling double duty at Final Battle (something about all Titles need to be defended, and he still has the TV Title).

After taking down those 10 former ROH Champions, Jericho is on Dynamite still ****ting on ROH even on the eve of its first rebooted show that Saturday (Jan 7th), claiming he has nothing left to prove, that the best that the history of ROH had to offer couldnt take him down, that they dont deserve a champion as great as him, that he might not even show up on Saturday. And its then, that we get what weve been waiting for... Adam Cole Bay Bay! Hopefully he hasnt been back on TV at all before this and you have youre massive Main Event for the first show, and a New Champion that everyone can get behind for as long as you need to, until he turns and you can build your new stars off of him.

Interesting question, that sprung out of that last bit - and I'm sure he could (because for God's sake, Keith Lee did!) - but has Jericho ever taken a Canadian Destroyer/Panama Sunrise that you can recall?

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13 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

Interesting question, that sprung out of that last bit - and I'm sure he could (because for God's sake, Keith Lee did!) - but has Jericho ever taken a Canadian Destroyer/Panama Sunrise that you can recall?

Now that you mention it, I cant recall him ever doing it. Im sure he can, but I would bet you would agree that he probably thinks he could take/sell one better than anyone.

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