Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[Dr LBC]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

This is mostly what I meant when saying she wasnt ever the draw they wanted her to be. They flubbed it out of the gate, and I dont think she ever gained enough traction because of it. 

She miffed some people going with Pipers gimmick, she miffed others by stealing the spotlight from Auska, and then as you said she is naturally a heel, and should have come out of the gate as that. She should have had her posse (dont let them call themselves the Four Horsewomen obviously) but that way she didnt need to be on TV much, just let Bazler and Shafir be the representatives on a week to week basis, likely with a Mouthpiece (make someone their "trainer" or handler). 

I know its in the past, so nothing will change obviously, but if she is debuting at the Rumble, just have her win the freaking Rumble. Its also hindsight, but what did Auska actually get out of being "winner of the first womens rumble"? At this point, just the answer to a trivia question. And Honestly Im still surprised to this day that Vince didnt want that answer to be Ronda Rousey forever.

Actually, if you were intent (and they clearly were) on Ronda/Charlotte being the big feud, let her call her faction The Four Horsewomen, so that that gives Charlotte an organic reason to go babyface.  Face isn't exactly Charlotte's strength, but she can work it - she just is a bit deep in that Haytch version of feeling the need to be the cool babyface (which is something they're kind of doing Gargano wrong by right now).  But something as simple as defending her birthright opens the door for her to organically (and not over-the-top) reference Reid Flair and how he could/should have been the one to carry on their dad's legacy, but now she takes that group name more serious then ever because it's for both her dad and her (dead) brother.  Vince, however, I'm pretty convinced was virtually incapable of wanting to book Ric as a babyface because he was such a Rushmore Guy for the rival company for so long (he'd have booked Sting as a heel if he felt like he could have gotten away with it).

[StLunatic88]

8 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

Actually, if you were intent (and they clearly were) on Ronda/Charlotte being the big feud, let her call her faction The Four Horsewomen, so that that gives Charlotte an organic reason to go babyface. 

Thats a good point, hadn't thought of that

I wouldnt like them using it in a long term capacity, but for the showdown with Charlotte, would be a great usage

[Dr LBC]

1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said:

Thats a good point, hadn't thought of that

I wouldnt like them using it in a long term capacity, but for the showdown with Charlotte, would be a great usage

You get it out of the way early and make the first showdown between the to of them (presumably a Big 4/WM match) be for the rights to use the name.  Hell, you even want to preserve the "Charlotte never pinned/submitted me" narrative for a return match, you make that first showdown a ladder match with a Horseman/woman symbol as the thing to retrieve that's suspended.  Also allows you a no-DQ type situation, whereby the other members from the two factions are able to be involved/get some action without it determining the result of the match.  Problem with that was that Jessamyn Duke's development was slower than they'd anticipated and Marina Shafir (who always felt like a throw-in and like they probably should have found a way to just have Sonya brought in as a Windham type) still doesn't have development - which I find astounding considering who her husband is.

Also, I'm not certain at all we'd have gotten the progression we've seen from Becky (just based off of lack of opportunities) had this been the way things unfolded.

[StLunatic88]

Its been a minute since Ive harped on the RoH side of AEW, but with the first match (and I guess Main Event) of Final Battle already announced, Ill just throw out some thoughts;

Im never going to come here and kick and scream that My Ideas are/were what should have happened, they are just me spewing theories and ideas. But I will comment on what they are doing, and Jericho/Claudio yet again to "headline" Final Battle sure does not seem like its big enough to carry the final event of the calendar.

It feels like they really lost the thread of this Ring of Jericho thing. Going through the former ROH champs was great, the few intros to the (slightly) wider audience were pretty big hits with Bandido and Dalton Castle. There were still plenty on the actual roster for him to go through (Rush, Lethal, Daniels, Joe) as well as many loose relationships (Homicide, Taven-even more so now) and once they expanded it to use Cabana, that helps as well. I mean other than what was said by Cassidy on the PPV, did they even treat Ishii as one of those types during the matchup?

Also, they seemed to have pulled off the gas of the "Dishonor" of Jericho. Sure he flips off the crowd to start, but then its just a normal match that Jericho gets to win (I know what the response will be about Jericho and how he rolls these days) which together really bums me out, because it felt like they were building to do the ROH Title (and company) right, and prop it up as it should be.

 

Outside of what Jericho is likely ruining backstage, it does surprise me that Samoa Joe is the Posterboy for Final Battle, but he isnt really going to be the biggest part of this PPV. His current program is centered around the TNT Belt, not the ROH TV Title that he also has. Feels very weird, and Ill be Honest, as excited I was for all of this just 2 months ago, Im really feeling disappointed now. Hopefully they can pull up on this nose dive

Because Jericho/Claudio, Mercedes Martinez/Athena, a misplaced Joe feud over an AEW Belt, and I guess some thrown together FTR match seems more like a random episode of Rampage, not the build to the Last PPV of the year... especially if they are trying to use this as a Springboard to a TV Show.

[Dr LBC]

15 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Its been a minute since Ive harped on the RoH side of AEW, but with the first match (and I guess Main Event) of Final Battle already announced, Ill just throw out some thoughts;

Im never going to come here and kick and scream that My Ideas are/were what should have happened, they are just me spewing theories and ideas. But I will comment on what they are doing, and Jericho/Claudio yet again to "headline" Final Battle sure does not seem like its big enough to carry the final event of the calendar.

It feels like they really lost the thread of this Ring of Jericho thing. Going through the former ROH champs was great, the few intros to the (slightly) wider audience were pretty big hits with Bandido and Dalton Castle. There were still plenty on the actual roster for him to go through (Rush, Lethal, Daniels, Joe) as well as many loose relationships (Homicide, Taven-even more so now) and once they expanded it to use Cabana, that helps as well. I mean other than what was said by Cassidy on the PPV, did they even treat Ishii as one of those types during the matchup?

Also, they seemed to have pulled off the gas of the "Dishonor" of Jericho. Sure he flips off the crowd to start, but then its just a normal match that Jericho gets to win (I know what the response will be about Jericho and how he rolls these days) which together really bums me out, because it felt like they were building to do the ROH Title (and company) right, and prop it up as it should be.

 

Outside of what Jericho is likely ruining backstage, it does surprise me that Samoa Joe is the Posterboy for Final Battle, but he isnt really going to be the biggest part of this PPV. His current program is centered around the TNT Belt, not the ROH TV Title that he also has. Feels very weird, and Ill be Honest, as excited I was for all of this just 2 months ago, Im really feeling disappointed now. Hopefully they can pull up on this nose dive

Because Jericho/Claudio, Mercedes Martinez/Athena, a misplaced Joe feud over an AEW Belt, and I guess some thrown together FTR match seems more like a random episode of Rampage, not the build to the Last PPV of the year... especially if they are trying to use this as a Springboard to a TV Show.

I mean, a salvage that could be accomplished for this is FTR/Briscoes II, if Tony is willing to book it.  That likely isn't going to happen though, considering if they stick with what's been teased so far, it'll be FTR vs the Kingdom.  From a perspective of trying to put ROH over, I genuinely loathe the stipulation in the Jericho/Claudio match because it's trying to overshine the promotion's main title by linking back to a stip that would be reaped, if it were to happen, almost entirely on AEW tv.  Again, as you alluded to, it doesn't exactly speak like the kind of move of a promotion trying to parlay into TV show and feels more like Tony's underlying motive for buying ROH was their tape library.

I'm assuming we'll get a 6-man titles match with Dalton and the Boys against...?  Gates of Agony, maybe?  Or Los Ingobernables, maybe?

[StLunatic88]

5 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

FTR/Briscoes II, if Tony is willing to book it.  That likely isn't going to happen though,

Yea not gonna happen,  they want nothing to do with the Briscoes, that’s been made pretty clear at this point. And while I’ll love all FTR matches, does The Kingdom do it for me? On what should be their big blow out show, not at all. 

5 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

I genuinely loathe the stipulation in the Jericho/Claudio match because it's trying to overshine the promotion's main title by linking back to a stip that would be reaped, if it were to happen, almost entirely on AEW tv.

It is extremely dumb, and was just tacked on because they some how think it would draw more eyes to it? I feel like they all think that JAS/BCC is way more entertaining than anyone watching does. 

5 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

Again, as you alluded to, it doesn't exactly speak like the kind of move of a promotion trying to parlay into TV show and feels more like Tony's underlying motive for buying ROH was their tape library.

But it didn’t for a while there. Especially as he kept teasing the TV announcement in all his interviews. I wonder if it finally fell through (or was severely lessened) and that’s when they pivoted back to the Claudio plan (what I think was his original plan for him before he had to break glass for emergency with him in the BCC). 

I personally like Claudio a lot, I know not everyone does, and I think he is a great name to carry the ROH Title, but really only once they are reestablished. If they let this be Joe taking it back from Jericho “for all of ROH” and then Claudio takes it off him, to be the workhorse champ, that would make sense. Unfortunately now I think this is going to turn into a Jericho show, with Claudio standing in the background with the other guys. 

5 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

I'm assuming we'll get a 6-man titles match with Dalton and the Boys against...?  Gates of Agony, maybe?  Or Los Ingobernables, maybe?

Yes, that will help fill out the card, and Embassy should definitely take those 6-Man belts. But they’ve also had chances to really build them up as a force, and nearly every time they miss on those.

 

Bottom line is, they either need to commit to making a separate ROH brand, divided roster and all. OR get rid of a bunch of the belts, Unify them for the time being at least (TV, Tag, Trios) until you can get an actual TV deal, and celebrate the ROH Titles as another mid-card belt (you would need that with the size of this roster) but they mostly are on Dark, and get some run on Rampage every once in a while. I mostly reject the idea that AEW has too many titles, because I saw/assumed where they were going with ROH, but if they aren’t doing that anymore, you’ve gotta make a change. 

[Mox]

I'm ready for the reign of terror

[StLunatic88]

Soooo this Regal thing is a bit odd right? 

Although Im not all that shocked that (potentially) TK agreed to some odd clause in a talents contract. But makes you wonder what else might be sitting out there in some of these contracts.

Feels like they could have handled this BCC breakup a lot better than they did, Especially if they knew Regal was on his way out. But it has probably run its course, and none of these guys really fit together in any other way. Mox never seemed to care, Bryan also seemed to be annoyed to be anchored to it. The only ones who ever really felt like they committed to it were Claudio and Yuta (oddly the two who werent originally envisioned for it) and they can keep a friendship/partnership amongst them over on the ROH brand (assuming it happens)

 

I did say I am not all that keen on this Jericho/Claudio stipulation at Final Battle, and I still feel that way. But in that interview segment, Hager tossing out the idea of them two being a Tag Team again did spark an interest for me. Especially if Claudio is completely reluctant other than when the bell rings. If Jericho is going to be holding the ROH title a little longer, and they drive JAS into Overdrive for ROH going into a TV show (hopefully), Hager/Claudio is suddenly a believable Tag Team who could actually challenge FTR. (especially if they are about to head out for a while) Which would give someone a nice rub to someone else once they take those belts away from JAS, just like the PURE and World Championship.

[StLunatic88]

Circling back on some of the Final Battle developments;

Ill be honest, Juice Robinson does interest me. I dont necessarily expect him to take the belt off of Joe, but then again that would be a massive entrance into RoH. And if they want Joe to me more on the TNT title? would make sense. Especially if Wardlow/Hobbs cost him that match.

As I have said before Mercedes/Athena doesnt really do much for me. Hope Im wrong, but I dont enjoy Athena in this heel spot. Wish they would expand this to a Triple Threat or Four Way, but doesnt seem likely.

Garcia/Yuta again... fine if this wasnt the 2nd biggest match on the card.

This Shane Taylor appearance is a bit out of nowhere, could be good. Possibly be teaming up with Swerve to take out Keith? Make their own faction? You've caught my attention here, lets not squander it.

[StLunatic88]

The battle Royal seems sufficiently hyped and feels important for the DDR. Will be interesting to see how they separate it.

-Wouldnt hate an OC/Sabina feud. Seems like Kip has a lot of stop/starts though. Seems odd that they would jump straight into an AAC thing.

-Hope they let Dustin run a faction or something for his last go

-Kinda hope they keep spotlighting The Butcher and The Blade as the mercenaries of AEW (possibly even ROH as well)

-Really hope this Castle spot is the set up for the Embassy to take them of my the 6-man belts at FinL Battle

-reeeeally like the work Ethan Page is doing. Him vs Matt should be pretty fun, but he’s gotta go over. (They really need to figure out The Firm though, what is Morrisey doing? Why doesn’t he just enter himself in this match?) I’m worried they’re gonna mess up this Page push that should be coming  

-I’d like Shawn Dean as a pure baby face in RoH

-I question having Ricky getting the Tournament win and the DDR shot. The crowd is way more pumped for him than I expected (didn’t realize were in Texas)  it let’s see what they do here 

 

[StLunatic88]

MJF is the man right now

Ill give Ricky some credit, he took every one of those verbal jabs and gave plenty back. But let’s also be honest, if they aren’t in Texas, his “hometown”, not sure he gets that same reaction. 

[StLunatic88]

Why did it take this long to get this Samoa Joe?

He absolutely obliterated Darby, I really hope for his sake this writes him off TV for a bit, he needs it. I honestly wouldn’t have even given Allin even as much offense as he did get in

 

I love how weird and awkward Orange Cassidy makes everything. It’s such a refreshing throw back the Campy wrestling most of us grew up with. 

[StLunatic88]

Solid tag match, I’m worried that the BCC went over here. Usually means bad things come the PPV. 

And the speech from Mox doesn’t mKe me feel any better about it. 

But the Regal thing was… weird right? Seems like a last minute bandaid by TK because some people questioned the situation? He really needs to have some backbone 

[StLunatic88]

Jade needs to get something new. Starting with her logo, it’s the same thing as the JAS logo basically

Are they already trying to plant Jade vs Red Velvet descent? Before we even finish this thing with Hogan? The camera men sure seemed to be trying to tell that story already.

I mean at this point I’m ready for Jade to move up, but only because they dont seem to actually treat Jamie Hayter as her own women. Sure she got a 90 second “interview” but then it’s immediately overshadowed by Britt still basically referring to Jamie as her sidekick?? For a random ladies tag match a month from now? Why did we need that? (I understand it’s the LA show, but my point still remains)

[TOUCAN]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:47 PM, StLunatic88 said:

Jade needs to get something new. Starting with her logo, it’s the same thing as the JAS logo basically

Are they already trying to plant Jade vs Red Velvet descent? Before we even finish this thing with Hogan? The camera men sure seemed to be trying to tell that story already.

I mean at this point I’m ready for Jade to move up, but only because they dont seem to actually treat Jamie Hayter as her own women. Sure she got a 90 second “interview” but then it’s immediately overshadowed by Britt still basically referring to Jamie as her sidekick?? For a random ladies tag match a month from now? Why did we need that? (I understand it’s the LA show, but my point still remains)

I loved Jade for awhile. I'm now just kind of over it.