SemperFeist Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 15 minutes ago, CriminalMind said: Incorrect ... Ponder was a reach pick (strike 1) at way too high a draft spot (strike 2) ... and was thrust into the starting lineup well too early (strike 3)... so that's 3 strikes. Pick someone late 1st-3rd ... and they got less/no pressure to start this year and likely not a reach. Any QB drafted in the top 3 rounds is going to get pressured to start at the moment the starter faulted. That’s the way it works, that’s the way it always has worked. And where he was drafted was irrelevant. Once Ponder was labeled by this team as the QBotF, it didn’t matter. The pressure was on. As it will be for any other QB that gets labeled the team’s QBotF. But none of that was the point of my previous post. Ponder didn’t fail because the team reached, draft position has nothing to do with a player’s eventual success or failure. Ponder failed for a number of reasons, but one of the main reasons was because the team never did anything to help him develop. They did not implement a QB friendly scheme. They did not bring in a known QB coach. They catered everything to a RB who would only run out of power formations. Ponder didn’t have the physical skill set to overcome much, but this team never put him in a position to succeed, either. And that’s what I’d be worried about with any QB drafted this year. Gary and Klint Kubiak, if that’s the direction this team goes, don’t inspire much confidence to develop a young QB. And worse yet, Zimmer’s philosophy towards offense creates even more doubt. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 What, Kubiak's development of Jake Plummer and Matt Schaub don't do anything for you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, swede700 said: What, Kubiak's development of Jake Plummer and Matt Schaub don't do anything for you? There’s another point to be made. Plummer was 29 when he and Kubiak connected, and Schaub was 26. Neither I would call young QBs at that point. So, which young QBs has Kubiak been responsible for? The answer is none. It’s pretty obvious from his history that Kubiak isn’t interested in working with a rookie, or young quarterback. Edited January 14, 2020 by SemperFeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Eric dunn said: I’ll make my stance clear going into the offseason. If the right guy falls I want Minnesota to take a QB in round 1. As I’ve stated in the past, I do not believe Kirk is the guy long term. I think we would all like a starting QB succeeding on a rookie contract, but..... would be pretty hard for Spielman and Zimmer to not take a chance on a player that will be on the field this year vs a QB they might never even have the chance to coach in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: I think we would all like a starting QB succeeding on a rookie contract, but..... would be pretty hard for Spielman and Zimmer to not take a chance on a player that will be on the field this year vs a QB they might never even have the chance to coach in the future. While I think some may think that's a possibility, that really can't be in the equation when evaluating draftees. I can understand to a certain degree coming from Zimmer, but Spielman can't think that way. He has to think 3-5 years down the road, regardless of whether he might be there or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, SemperFeist said: Any QB drafted in the top 3 rounds is going to get pressured to start at the moment the starter faulted. That’s the way it works, that’s the way it always has worked. And where he was drafted was irrelevant. Once Ponder was labeled by this team as the QBotF, it didn’t matter. The pressure was on. As it will be for any other QB that gets labeled the team’s QBotF. But none of that was the point of my previous post. Ponder didn’t fail because the team reached, draft position has nothing to do with a player’s eventual success or failure. Ponder failed for a number of reasons, but one of the main reasons was because the team never did anything to help him develop. They did not implement a QB friendly scheme. They did not bring in a known QB coach. They catered everything to a RB who would only run out of power formations. Ponder didn’t have the physical skill set to overcome much, but this team never put him in a position to succeed, either. And that’s what I’d be worried about with any QB drafted this year. Gary and Klint Kubiak, if that’s the direction this team goes, don’t inspire much confidence to develop a young QB. And worse yet, Zimmer’s philosophy towards offense creates even more doubt. I understand what your saying however, I disagree with the need to a QB to be put in a QB friendly scheme. I think once a determination is made that that is what is needed to "this" QB to succeed, its time to cut your losses with said QB. A good QB, will succeed, regardless if they are put in a QB friendly scheme. And so I blame QB choice, moreso than QB scheme. Which is why I'm advocating for another QB choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, swede700 said: While I think some may think that's a possibility, that really can't be in the equation when evaluating draftees. I can understand to a certain degree coming from Zimmer, but Spielman can't think that way. He has to think 3-5 years down the road, regardless of whether he might be there or not. Of course, GM/Coaches are self-serving. Quite frankly having them enter on a contract year deal ... is prolly even a poorer decision... and would exacerbate this self serving decision making 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric dunn Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, gopherwrestler said: I think we would all like a starting QB succeeding on a rookie contract, but..... would be pretty hard for Spielman and Zimmer to not take a chance on a player that will be on the field this year vs a QB they might never even have the chance to coach in the future. If they each get extensions(I believe they will). I think that will make it easier for them to think about the future a little bit vs trying to fill immediate holes to win next year. Next year we could be competitive even if we take a QB In the 1st. If they can bring back Mack & Harris then really the only glaring holes are LG & DT. There are guys at almost every position that arguably deserve a chance to at least compete to start. I think Linvals replacement is in place (Jaleel Johnson). Rhodes replacement (Hill, if he can stay off the weed). Elflein (Samia), Reiff (slide O’Neil, I’m not in favor but it’s an option & give Udoh a chance @ RT), Griffen (Ifeadi). Edited January 14, 2020 by Eric dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, Eric dunn said: If they each get extensions(I believe they will). I think that will make it easier for them to think about the future a little bit vs trying to fill immediate holes to win next year. Extensions mean nothing tho for Coaches or GM’s. They aren’t part of any salary figures and owners can afford to just move on from them if they don’t perform. Competitive yes, but with basically the same team we went 8-7-1 just a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 4 hours ago, SemperFeist said: Any QB drafted in the top 3 rounds is going to get pressured to start at the moment the starter faulted. That’s the way it works, that’s the way it always has worked. Not necessarily. Maybe that's how it's worked in recent times...but I think about how Roger Staubach was stuck behind Craig Morton for a couple of years, even though it was clear that Staubach was the superior talent. In more recent years, Rivers sat behind Brees, Rodgers sat behind Favre, and Mahomes sat behind Smith. All sat even when the starter had bad losing games. I think it's really more situational than a universal truth that a highly drafted QB will be pressured to play as soon as the starter stumbles. I think it's obvious that both Ponder and TJax were both placed into the starter role before they were ready. But on the other hand, Tarkenton was ready to play right out of the shoot...and he went and beat the Bears as a rookie QB on a new franchise, playing in his and the teams very first game. I still think that's the only time that's happened in NFL history. Sometimes it's best to sit the future franchise QB until the team around him improves and can minimize the mistakes he's likely to make as a new starter. Yet, sometimes it works out well when the rookie gets early action...Marino, P. Manning, Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Quote The 2020 East/West Shrine week is officially underway, and a slew of unheralded 2020 NFL Draft prospects took to Tropicana Field for the first day of a busy week of practice. The mission? To show the NFL personnel in attendance they are worthy of being a priority in the upcoming NFL draft. Here are five winners from Day 1 of the East/West Shrine Bowl practices. Minnesota's Chris Williamson had himself a day. He's physically well built but not rigid, and he's capable of uprooting receivers off their route stems when playing in the contact window. His moment in the spotlight was one of a handful of player-versus-player matchups at the end of the late practice — a rep where both the offense and defense gathered to watch some of their best matchup with one another. Williamson's rep featured, as seen above, a savvy move to slip into the inside hip of his man before working his eyes back to the ball and converting into the receiver and tracking down the interception. https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/5-winners-from-day-1-of-the-2020-eastwest-shrine-bowl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, swede700 said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/5-winners-from-day-1-of-the-2020-eastwest-shrine-bowl Sounds like those 3 lineman could fit/help the Vikings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayN Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) I don't post much here but take a look at this OT. He played for my alma mater for four years and was a man among boys in the NAIA. 6'7", 305 and can do a standing backflip. The team was 4th in nation in rushing behind him and the rest of the line. I'd love to see him with the Vikes as a 7th rounder or UFA. He's a bit tall to play guard but that's where I'd slot him if he could make an NFL squad. EDIT: He's one of four NAIA players selected to play in the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl this Saturday if you're at all interested. #70. Edited January 14, 2020 by RayN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric dunn Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 2 hours ago, gopherwrestler said: Extensions mean nothing tho for Coaches or GM’s. They aren’t part of any salary figures and owners can afford to just move on from them if they don’t perform. Competitive yes, but with basically the same team we went 8-7-1 just a year ago. I realize that. But there would at least be a false sense of security in Ricks mind, with an extension. Therefor he wouldn’t have to be in win now/panic mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Not sure where any of them are projected but based on the little bit I've read on each of them the Michigan iOL could be great picks for the Vikings. Ben Bredeson, Cesar Ruiz, and Michael Onwenu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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