2020 Draft Talk

[swede700]

1 hour ago, SteelKing728 said:

Given Spielman's history, I'd say its likely though.

What history?  He's only done it twice...and in both cases, as I indicated above, it was because the said WR fell in the draft, so he was good value at the time.  Obviously, it turned out that, in the case of Treadwell, he failed miserably, but I'm not sure anyone blamed Spielman for taking him.  If you are claiming that you did, it's likely revisionist history.  I do recall that several people would have preferred Michael Thomas, but they weren't exactly bringing out the torches and pitchforks for drafting Treadwell.

[SteelKing728]

2 hours ago, swede700 said:

What history?  He's only done it twice...and in both cases, as I indicated above, it was because the said WR fell in the draft, so he was good value at the time.  Obviously, it turned out that, in the case of Treadwell, he failed miserably, but I'm not sure anyone blamed Spielman for taking him.  If you are claiming that you did, it's likely revisionist history.  I do recall that several people would have preferred Michael Thomas, but they weren't exactly bringing out the torches and pitchforks for drafting Treadwell.

I was happy with Treadwell at the time. I actually liked Devin Smith more than Michael Thomas too.

Anyways, isn't he responsible for Harvin, Patterson and Treadwell?

[swede700]

Just now, SteelKing728 said:

I was happy with Treadwell at the time. I actually liked Devin Smith more than Michael Thomas too.

Anyways, isn't he responsible for Harvin, Patterson and Treadwell?

Harvin was Childress' choice under the Triangle of Authoritah (South Park Reference)

[the_cote_kid]

If we draft a WR in the 1st round I will learn to drive, renew my passport, fly to the states and drive Rick into the sea or more likely a lake.

[AP_allday2869]

Are people really trying to say that Percy Harvin was a bad pick?

[Kparty15]

If we take the wrong WR in the first then it would be a bad pick.  Stay away from guys like Justin Jefferson, Laviska Shenault, and Jalen Reagor in the 1st, but a guy like Tee Higgins or Denzel Mims could be a huge upgrade in the 1st.

The way things stand right now Adam Thielen turns 30 in August and we need to start grooming a replacement for him and someone who can help carry the offense in case Thielen misses a significant amount of time again like he did last year.

[SteelKing728]

8 hours ago, Kparty15 said:

If we take the wrong WR in the first then it would be a bad pick.  Stay away from guys like Justin Jefferson, Laviska Shenault, and Jalen Reagor in the 1st, but a guy like Tee Higgins or Denzel Mims could be a huge upgrade in the 1st.

The way things stand right now Adam Thielen turns 30 in August and we need to start grooming a replacement for him and someone who can help carry the offense in case Thielen misses a significant amount of time again like he did last year.

Why no Jefferson or Shenault? What is the "wrong" receiver?

[vikestyle]

31 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

Why no Jefferson or Shenault? What is the "wrong" receiver?

Yeah I don't get why Jefferson is included on that list. Shenault and Reagor are gonna be more gadget guys early in their careers so I get that, but I'd prefer Jefferson over both Mims and Higgins.

[Duff Man]

Jefferson wouldn’t be the worst pick in the 1st round, I like his game a lot. Would still prefer OL/DL/CB in the 1st. 
 

I’d be a lot more comfortable going WR in the 2nd with a possible trade up if Raegor slips. I think Raegor in the 2nd would be excellent. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Duff Man

[vikestyle]

5 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Jefferson wouldn’t be the worst pick in the 1st round, I like his game a lot. Would still prefer OL/DL/CB in the 1st. 
 

I’d be a lot more comfortable going WR in the 2nd with a possible trade up if Raegor slips. I think Raegor in the 2nd would be excellent. 

Definitely agree on prioritizing the other positions. I think Jefferson is the only realistic WR pick I'd actually be happy with. 

I'm not a big Reagor fan personally. Love his athleticism, but I think his learning curve is gonna be huge. He may turn into a great gadget guy and deep threat, but I'd rather let someone else roll those dice.

[Kparty15]

I think Justin Jefferson is overrated.  He would be a good option in the 2nd round though.  He mostly played out of the slot at LSU and doesn’t have a ton of experience playing split end or flanker.  Of the WRs that we already have Adam Thielen is best from the slot even though he is able to play outside, Chad Beebe is exclusively a slot WR, and Tajae Sharpe plays from the slot a lot too.  Since Jefferson got to play on the same offense as Ja’Marr Chase he has never had to be the number one option on his team and would rarely draw the attention of a teams best defender.  Most teams would have to double or triple team Chase giving Jefferson more opportunities.  I haven’t seen a ton of run blocking from Jefferson either.  Both Tee Higgins and Denzel Mims have had to be their teams “go to” guy, drawing the top defenders, winning on the outside, and excelling in jump ball situations.  With how many 2 WR sets that we run it significantly decreases the value of a slot WR and increases the need for a big outside WR.  People were worried that Higgins might be slow because he didn’t run at the combine and ran a 4.7 in high school, but he ran a 4.43 at his pro day.  He has proven to be a top option on a top 5 team in the country and has put up just as good of stats as DeAndre Hopkins and Sammy Watkins at the same school.  He would be a top 10 pick in a less WR deep draft.  Denzel Mims might be the best run blocking WR in the whole draft.  Mims is extremely large and physical and ran the same 40 yard dash time as Randy Moss did at the combine.  People hate on Mims saying he isn’t a good route runner because Baylor only asked him to run the same 3-4 routes, but he disproved that notion at the Senior Bowl practices showing extremely quick feet and great route running ability.  All 3 of these guys are pretty good route runners.  I just think that the top 4 WRs in this draft are Jerry Jeudy, CeeDee Lamb, Tee Higgins, and Denzel Mims and those guys are a lot more closely graded than people think.  Then the tier below them would include Henry Ruggs, Justin Jefferson, Laviska Shenault, Brandon Aiyuk, and maybe Michael Pittman Jr.

[Ozzy]

Just now, Kparty15 said:

I think Justin Jefferson is overrated.  He would be a good option in the 2nd round though.  He mostly played out of the slot at LSU and doesn’t have a ton of experience playing split end or flanker.  Of the WRs that we already have Adam Thielen is best from the slot even though he is able to play outside, Chad Beebe is exclusively a slot WR, and Tajae Sharpe plays from the slot a lot too.  Since Jefferson got to play on the same offense as Ja’Marr Chase he has never had to be the number one option on his team and would rarely draw the attention of a teams best defender.  Most teams would have to double or triple team Chase giving Jefferson more opportunities.  I haven’t seen a ton of run blocking from Jefferson either.  Both Tee Higgins and Denzel Mims have had to be their teams “go to” guy, drawing the top defenders, winning on the outside, and excelling in jump ball situations.  With how many 2 WR sets that we run it significantly decreases the value of a slot WR and increases the need for a big outside WR.  People were worried that Higgins might be slow because he didn’t run at the combine and ran a 4.7 in high school, but he ran a 4.43 at his pro day.  He has proven to be a top option on a top 5 team in the country and has put up just as good of stats as DeAndre Hopkins and Sammy Watkins at the same school.  He would be a top 10 pick in a less WR deep draft.  Denzel Mims might be the best run blocking WR in the whole draft.  Mims is extremely large and physical and ran the same 40 yard dash time as Randy Moss did at the combine.  People hate on Mims saying he isn’t a good route runner because Baylor only asked him to run the same 3-4 routes, but he disproved that notion at the Senior Bowl practices showing extremely quick feet and great route running ability.  All 3 of these guys are pretty good route runners.  I just think that the top 4 WRs in this draft are Jerry Jeudy, CeeDee Lamb, Tee Higgins, and Denzel Mims and those guys are a lot more closely graded than people think.  Then the tier below them would include Henry Ruggs, Justin Jefferson, Laviska Shenault, Brandon Aiyuk, and maybe Michael Pittman Jr.

Denzel Mims I do like more than Jefferson but Jefferson has a lot of traits Diggs has in terms of route runner and could easily play outside receiver if asked I feel.  Mims has more deep speed and is longer with a better catch radius, and possibly Jefferson looked better than he actually is last year considering the talent around him.  I agree Mims might be a better fit but the Vikings could draft a DE and CB 1st round anyway so doubt they use a 1st rounder on a WR unless Jefferson falls and even then it is a question mark.

 

Tee Higgins is falling because of his poor play and or being injured late in the year.  And yeah he is not nearly as good as say Jeudy or Lamb and Ruggs is such a freak athletically he is better than Higgins as well just in terms of upside.  Shenault I would not want with his injury history and Aiyuk I would not mind but only 3rd round range not sure I would ever take him 1st round.  Will be interesting what they do, I would be surprised if a WR goes 1st round for the Vikings.  DE and CB are bigger needs I feel than WR, especially CB.  I would not mind Mims 1st round if we got a CB but would be very hard to pass up on YGM or Epenesa if they are just sitting there and they should be.  And CB they need to get one early no question about it.

 

 

 

Just did a quick 2 round with 2021 prospects if they were in this current draft with current team needs, and I had this for the Vikings.  Better value at OG, Wyatt Davis being well worth a 1st round pick so that is nice, and Bateman would be a great receiver with deep threat ability and fine route running as well.  Then Samuel Jr as a CB in the 2nd is ok but nothing great.

22. Minnesota (From Buffalo)  - Wyatt Davis RS JR OG Ohio State
25. Minnesota  - Rashod Bateman Minnesota JR WR 
58. Minnesota  - Asante Samuel Jr Florida State JR CB

 

 

[Duff Man]

I’m 100% sold on Gladney. They need to get that man another purple jersey. 

[Ozzy]

Just now, Duff Man said:

I’m 100% sold on Gladney. They need to get that man another purple jersey. 

I agree, I would still take AJ Terrell over him if he is there but I would take Gladney over Diggs or Fulton all day long.  He is tough and fights for the football, I like him a lot the more I watch him.  Honestly it would suck if he is there and they do not take him.  Then again if they do indeed trade Harris, safety becomes a massive need and Delpit, McKinney or Winfield would be targets 1st round I think, but maybe they could go S and CB 1st round.  

[vikestyle]

56 minutes ago, Kparty15 said:

I think Justin Jefferson is overrated.  He would be a good option in the 2nd round though.  He mostly played out of the slot at LSU and doesn’t have a ton of experience playing split end or flanker.  Of the WRs that we already have Adam Thielen is best from the slot even though he is able to play outside, Chad Beebe is exclusively a slot WR, and Tajae Sharpe plays from the slot a lot too.  Since Jefferson got to play on the same offense as Ja’Marr Chase he has never had to be the number one option on his team and would rarely draw the attention of a teams best defender.  Most teams would have to double or triple team Chase giving Jefferson more opportunities.  I haven’t seen a ton of run blocking from Jefferson either.  Both Tee Higgins and Denzel Mims have had to be their teams “go to” guy, drawing the top defenders, winning on the outside, and excelling in jump ball situations.  With how many 2 WR sets that we run it significantly decreases the value of a slot WR and increases the need for a big outside WR.  People were worried that Higgins might be slow because he didn’t run at the combine and ran a 4.7 in high school, but he ran a 4.43 at his pro day.  He has proven to be a top option on a top 5 team in the country and has put up just as good of stats as DeAndre Hopkins and Sammy Watkins at the same school.  He would be a top 10 pick in a less WR deep draft.  Denzel Mims might be the best run blocking WR in the whole draft.  Mims is extremely large and physical and ran the same 40 yard dash time as Randy Moss did at the combine.  People hate on Mims saying he isn’t a good route runner because Baylor only asked him to run the same 3-4 routes, but he disproved that notion at the Senior Bowl practices showing extremely quick feet and great route running ability.  All 3 of these guys are pretty good route runners.  I just think that the top 4 WRs in this draft are Jerry Jeudy, CeeDee Lamb, Tee Higgins, and Denzel Mims and those guys are a lot more closely graded than people think.  Then the tier below them would include Henry Ruggs, Justin Jefferson, Laviska Shenault, Brandon Aiyuk, and maybe Michael Pittman Jr.

Justin Jefferson was the #1 wide receiver at LSU in 2018 and had double the yards, receptions, and touchdowns of anyone else on the team, so saying he has never been the #1 receiver isn't accurate.

The reports on Higgins' 40 time are all over the place. Some reports said 4.43, and some said 4.63. He doesn't look like a 4.4 guy on the field. Maybe it's just my PTSD from Josh Doctson, but that's what I'm nervous he will turn into.

As for your tier two, I think Ruggs is going to be the first receiver drafted. I'm not saying that's right, but I have a feeling that's going to happen. I think Justin Jefferson is the most ready to be a contributing NFL wide receiver after anyone in your first tier. I have him and Mims very close.