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2020 Draft Talk

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20 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

Would you rather have Josh Jones and Muti, or Ruiz and Niang? It's a tough question. 

Per TDN it says he has had 2016/2018 Achilles injuries as well as a Lisfranc injury in 2019, he might be off my draft board entirely given his injury history. If he is there past the 5th I'd consider it. 

Given your scenario I'd rather have Ruiz and Niang. Ruiz could hopefully solidify LG and Niang would have a year to learn behind Reiff.

2020: Reiff-Ruiz-Bradbury-Samia-O'Neill

2021: Niang-Ruiz-Bradbury-Samia-O'Neill

I would add that if they think a LTotF is available at #22 or #25 they should pull the trigger. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, vikestyle said:

In the first, we might have to choose if we want the best guard or the fifth best tackle. Would you rather have Josh Jones and Muti, or Ruiz and Niang? It's a tough question. 

The guard class is so bad this year that I’d take the tackle, where the 5th tackle of this class is probably the 2nd or 3rd best tackle of most classes. 

There isn’t an IOL prospect in this draft that actually intrigues me as anything more than a depth player. 

Edited by SemperFeist

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29 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

The guard class is so bad this year that I’d take the tackle, where the 5th tackle of this class is probably the 2nd or 3rd best tackle of most classes. 

There isn’t an IOL prospect in this draft that actually intrigues me as anything more than a depth player. 

Agreed.  I wouldn't even consider an OG anywhere near the 1st round.  I'd maybe consider one in the 2nd, but more than likely I don't see the Vikings taking one before the 3rd or 4th and then maybe another flyer in the 7th.

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1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

The guard class is so bad this year that I’d take the tackle, where the 5th tackle of this class is probably the 2nd or 3rd best tackle of most classes. 

There isn’t an IOL prospect in this draft that actually intrigues me as anything more than a depth player. 

How do you feel about Jonah Jackson? I think if we could come away with Josh Jones in the first and Jonah Jackson in the second I would be a fan. Plus having a left side of the line with first and last names all starting with J would be a huge plus.

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What about Josh Jones at 22 and Austin Jackson at 25. They say that Austin Jackson can play OG as well as tackle. It would be interesting and probably give us a top notch line for years..

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11 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

How do you feel about Jonah Jackson? I think if we could come away with Josh Jones in the first and Jonah Jackson in the second I would be a fan. Plus having a left side of the line with first and last names all starting with J would be a huge plus.

I thinks he’s a 3rd/4th round talent in a weak class. Maybe he could develop into a starter, but I don’t exactly see him as one. Plus, I’m a little weary of OSU offensive linemen. I think they’ve got a system in place that hides a lot of warts that the NFL exposes. 

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6 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

I thinks he’s a 3rd/4th round talent in a weak class. Maybe he could develop into a starter, but I don’t exactly see him as one. Plus, I’m a little weary of OSU offensive linemen. I think they’ve got a system in place that hides a lot of warts that the NFL exposes. 

Jonah Jackson was an absolute super star on Ohio State this past season.  Is he better than his teammate Wyatt Davis?  Probably not, I would take Davis in the 1st round next year as a OG, I would not take Jonah Jackson in the 1st round this year but absolutely would in the 2nd but doubt he lasts to when the Vikings pick.  But Ohio State had an amazing OL last year, their center was great, clearly both guards were great and the tackles were solid.

 

Sure Billy Price I was not a huge fan of an Elflein was trash of course but I don't think Jackson would be like Elflein but who knows, I did not know much of him on Rutgers before the transfered.

 

John Simpson I love at OG and he has the mobility to play in a zone read system, has pulled often at Clemson.  And Biadasz if healthy is a solid player and can play OG arguably and C.  But yeah none are 1st round picks really like Myers on Ohio State could be next year at center and Creed Humphrey if he gets stronger.  Does kind of suck Alex Leatherwood and Alaric Jackson both returned to school, both can play OT and OG, and Leatherwood especially, he could be an awesome selection for the Vikings if he was available this year.  Trey Smith is another, if healthy could be a beast RT or better yet a solid guard if healthy.  

 

Ruiz is really interesting but not sure he would be that good at OG, Cushenberry I think could be better at OG than C but he also is probably gone by 2nd round and I would not take him 1st round.  Only good thing about Josh Jones is yeah at least he is worth a 1st round pick unlike arguably any interior OL.  Biadasz however I have had that high all season, but apparently his health is not great but that might be BS also.  Kid has been a top line center and is not a flash in the pan like some others kind of are.  Two to three years ago one knew who Tyler Biadasz was, don't think that can be said for Josh Jones on Houston.  

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Jonah Jackson was an absolute super star on Ohio State this past season.  Is he better than his teammate Wyatt Davis?  Probably not, I would take Davis in the 1st round next year as a OG, I would not take Jonah Jackson in the 1st round this year but absolutely would in the 2nd but doubt he lasts to when the Vikings pick.  But Ohio State had an amazing OL last year, their center was great, clearly both guards were great and the tackles were solid.

 

Sure Billy Price I was not a huge fan of an Elflein was trash of course but I don't think Jackson would be like Elflein but who knows, I did not know much of him on Rutgers before the transfered.

 

John Simpson I love at OG and he has the mobility to play in a zone read system, has pulled often at Clemson.  And Biadasz if healthy is a solid player and can play OG arguably and C.  But yeah none are 1st round picks really like Myers on Ohio State could be next year at center and Creed Humphrey if he gets stronger.  Does kind of suck Alex Leatherwood and Alaric Jackson both returned to school, both can play OT and OG, and Leatherwood especially, he could be an awesome selection for the Vikings if he was available this year.  Trey Smith is another, if healthy could be a beast RT or better yet a solid guard if healthy.  

 

Ruiz is really interesting but not sure he would be that good at OG, Cushenberry I think could be better at OG than C but he also is probably gone by 2nd round and I would not take him 1st round.  Only good thing about Josh Jones is yeah at least he is worth a 1st round pick unlike arguably any interior OL.  Biadasz however I have had that high all season, but apparently his health is not great but that might be BS also.  Kid has been a top line center and is not a flash in the pan like some others kind of are.  Two to three years ago one knew who Tyler Biadasz was, don't think that can be said for Josh Jones on Houston.  

I don't think "knowing who someone is" is how you should value draft picks. Yes people knew about Biadasz because he was a key part of arguably the best OL in the country and they were talked about non-stop. Houston is not a talked about program like Wisconsin. You may not have known who Jones was, but he started more games at Houston than Biadasz did at Wisconsin. He's been good for a long time. If all you want is household named you'd have a team with only Ohio State and Alabama players.

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36 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

I don't think "knowing who someone is" is how you should value draft picks. Yes people knew about Biadasz because he was a key part of arguably the best OL in the country and they were talked about non-stop. Houston is not a talked about program like Wisconsin. You may not have known who Jones was, but he started more games at Houston than Biadasz did at Wisconsin. He's been good for a long time. If all you want is household named you'd have a team with only Ohio State and Alabama players.

I am saying did you personally follow Josh Jones entire career?  That is a no I assume.  Did you know who he was as a freshman in college?  That is a no I assume.  Tyler Biadasz as a RS FR in college, if you paid attention you knew exactly who he was because he was the best at his position for his class.  Josh Jones never got that kind of hype outside of this past season, where he played his best he has of his career.  I noticed him JR year just based on his physical size and length but he also got beat an odd number of times, that changed a little this past year.

Being a good football player for a long time matters compared to peaking now.  Sure that is not always true but usually players that are outstanding from their FR or RS FR year onward is a good thing.  Sure some are late bloomers but more often than not a great player is great from the get go and Biadasz was.  Now maybe he is physically destroyed, I do not think that is true but if that happens then sure he will not be the same type of player at the next level.

Same happened with Ed Oliver last year, people just got sick of him, used to him or whatever and seemed to have forgot how consistently great he was even if his last JR year in college was not as dominating, kid was a dynamic talent from his true FR season onward.  That should matter when talking about a prospect, how great they were and for how long.  

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I am saying did you personally follow Josh Jones entire career?  That is a no I assume.  Did you know who he was as a freshman in college?  That is a no I assume.  Tyler Biadasz as a RS FR in college, if you paid attention you knew exactly who he was because he was the best at his position for his class.  Josh Jones never got that kind of hype outside of this past season, where he played his best he has of his career.  I noticed him JR year just based on his physical size and length but he also got beat an odd number of times, that changed a little this past year.

Being a good football player for a long time matters compared to peaking now.  Sure that is not always true but usually players that are outstanding from their FR or RS FR year onward is a good thing.  Sure some are late bloomers but more often than not a great player is great from the get go and Biadasz was.  Now maybe he is physically destroyed, I do not think that is true but if that happens then sure he will not be the same type of player at the next level.

Same happened with Ed Oliver last year, people just got sick of him, used to him or whatever and seemed to have forgot how consistently great he was even if his last JR year in college was not as dominating, kid was a dynamic talent from his true FR season onward.  That should matter when talking about a prospect, how great they were and for how long.  

People also get better throughout their college careers and as professionals. If you want high floor, low ceiling players you can do it your way. If rather have players with upside. 

 

And yes I know there are guys like Oliver that still have a ton of upside, but being good as a freshman doesn't automatically make a better pro.

Edited by vikestyle

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23 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

People also get better throughout their college careers and as professionals. If you want high floor, low ceiling players you can do it your way. If rather have players with upside. 

 

And yes I know there are guys like Oliver that still have a ton of upside, but being good as a freshman doesn't automatically make a better pro.

These guys were awesome from freshman year and beyond as far as I can remember from the 2019 Pro bowl roster.

Luke Kuechly, Jamal Adams, Julio Jones, Maurkice Pouncey, Saquon Barkley, Myles Garrett, Todd Gurley, DeAndre Hopkins, Stephon Gilmore, Patrick Peterson, CJ Mosely, Jadeveon Clowney, Derwin James, Mike Evans, Amari Cooper, Trent Williams, Max Unger, Alex Mack, Malcolm Jenkins, Andrus Peat, Cameron Heyward, James Conner, Russell Wilson

 

These guys were awesome their sophomore or RS Freshman year going forward from that same Pro bowl roster.

Drew Brees, Aaron Donald, Landon Collins, Zek Elliott, Mike Pouncey, David DeCastro, Andrew Luck, Deshaun Watson, Jared Cook, Taylor Lewan, Austin Hooper, Tyron Smith, Zach Martin, Kyle Fuller,  Cameron Jordan, 

 

 

That does not even include them all either because I am sure I missed some.  Not even mentioning players that were before these guys.

 

Just because a player is less know does not instantly mean they have greater upside.  Upside is not all of a sudden playing well, upside can be see FR year or SR year, does not really matter I guess. But honestly I would rather see it early which shows potentially a more elite level talent as seen above.  You do not think that, great don't think it, and disregard years before the actual draft as if those years of development and production do not matter.  Maybe Josh Jones is better than Biadasz in the pros, that is not really the point, point is ones entire career should be taken into account not just what you have done most recently.  Consistency matters, yes not all players develop at the same rate, but great players are usually great players from the get go.  

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11 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

These guys were awesome from freshman year and beyond as far as I can remember from the 2019 Pro bowl roster.

Luke Kuechly, Jamal Adams, Julio Jones, Maurkice Pouncey, Saquon Barkley, Myles Garrett, Todd Gurley, DeAndre Hopkins, Stephon Gilmore, Patrick Peterson, CJ Mosely, Jadeveon Clowney, Derwin James, Mike Evans, Amari Cooper, Trent Williams, Max Unger, Alex Mack, Malcolm Jenkins, Andrus Peat, Cameron Heyward, James Conner, Russell Wilson

 

These guys were awesome their sophomore or RS Freshman year going forward from that same Pro bowl roster.

Drew Brees, Aaron Donald, Landon Collins, Zek Elliott, Mike Pouncey, David DeCastro, Andrew Luck, Deshaun Watson, Jared Cook, Taylor Lewan, Austin Hooper, Tyron Smith, Zach Martin, Kyle Fuller,  Cameron Jordan, 

 

 

That does not even include them all either because I am sure I missed some.  Not even mentioning players that were before these guys.

 

Just because a player is less know does not instantly mean they have greater upside.  Upside is not all of a sudden playing well, upside can be see FR year or SR year, does not really matter I guess. But honestly I would rather see it early which shows potentially a more elite level talent as seen above.  You do not think that, great don't think it, and disregard years before the actual draft as if those years of development and production do not matter.  Maybe Josh Jones is better than Biadasz in the pros, that is not really the point, point is ones entire career should be taken into account not just what you have done most recently.  Consistency matters, yes not all players develop at the same rate, but great players are usually great players from the get go.  

Sounds good man. I think (hope) you knew I wasn't saying early success is a bad thing. Recent success, however, is good. Progression is good. You could easily argue Biadasz regressed in college. That's not a good sign. You listed 15,000 random prospects. Most of them first round guys. Of course you want a guy who was a stud as a freshman and continued to get better throughout college. I'm not stupid. We were talking about Biadasz not the entire last 6 years worth of first round picks you listed. When it comes to Biadasz, he is not a high ceiling guy, and I don't know that his floor is that high either.

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5 hours ago, byuvike88 said:

Where do you all go to watch film on the prospects? 

You can just type their name into a search engine, or youtube, and have your pick of highlight videos.

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I believe in this draft, the Vikings should double dip at receiver.

Which combination would you prefer?

Justin Jefferson and someone like Antonio Gandy Golden, Bryan Edwards or Michael PIttman?

Or

Denzel Mims and someone like Van Jefferson, Devin Dunvernay or Tyler Johnson?

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