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Karnage84

FAR TOO EARLY 2020 TEAM NEEDS

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Now that the draft is over and we have an insane amount of time to wait until real football is back, I decided to take a look ahead at 2020. All of this could easily change once the season plays out. This isn't in a particular order of need.

RT - Unless proven otherwise, Wagner is going to be lined up as a potential replacement sooner rather than later. It just depends on whether sooner is in 2019 or in 2020. If he's a post June 1 designation, he carries $2.9M in dead cap as opposed to the $5.6M prior to that. In all likelihood, the Lions will wait until after the draft before taking any action here.

DT - Whether it's Snacks' desire for an extension or A'Shawn coming to the end of his contract, the Lions are probably in need of adding another DT to the roster. PJ Johnson was added and could replace either of those guys but not both

OLB - This is most likely Kennard's last year with the Lions and he's a likely cut candidate for next year. Tavai is a guy that could fit that role at times and Bryant might get slotted here at times as well. I'd still expect to see the team add another guy into the mix as Christian Jones will be a free agent in 2020.

RB - The team just added CJ Anderson and Ty Johnson into the mix. Theo Riddick is going to be a FA this year, so if he's not cut or traded in 2019 then that will be his last year as a Lion.

WR - Arguably the Lions biggest need for the 2020 season. Outside of Golladay, there doesn't appear to be anyone on the roster who should be an impact player at receiver. We added Fulgham as a late round guy but will likely make multiple additions here in 2020 FA and draft

QB - The Lions have been searching for the heir to the throne or at worst a back up they can develop and trade for a bounty. Next year is expected to be a much stronger QB class. A guy like Jacob Eason could be available depending on whether some of the other top guys declare and/or how Josh Rosen plays this season. Tua, Hebert, Fromm and Eason are all guys that should go in the first round

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Now that the draft is over and we have an insane amount of time to wait until real football is back, I decided to take a look ahead at 2020. All of this could easily change once the season plays out. This isn't in a particular order of need.

RT - Unless proven otherwise, Wagner is going to be lined up as a potential replacement sooner rather than later. It just depends on whether sooner is in 2019 or in 2020. If he's a post June 1 designation, he carries $2.9M in dead cap as opposed to the $5.6M prior to that. In all likelihood, the Lions will wait until after the draft before taking any action here.

DT - Whether it's Snacks' desire for an extension or A'Shawn coming to the end of his contract, the Lions are probably in need of adding another DT to the roster. PJ Johnson was added and could replace either of those guys but not both

OLB - This is most likely Kennard's last year with the Lions and he's a likely cut candidate for next year. Tavai is a guy that could fit that role at times and Bryant might get slotted here at times as well. I'd still expect to see the team add another guy into the mix as Christian Jones will be a free agent in 2020.

RB - The team just added CJ Anderson and Ty Johnson into the mix. Theo Riddick is going to be a FA this year, so if he's not cut or traded in 2019 then that will be his last year as a Lion.

WR - Arguably the Lions biggest need for the 2020 season. Outside of Golladay, there doesn't appear to be anyone on the roster who should be an impact player at receiver. We added Fulgham as a late round guy but will likely make multiple additions here in 2020 FA and draft

QB - The Lions have been searching for the heir to the throne or at worst a back up they can develop and trade for a bounty. Next year is expected to be a much stronger QB class. A guy like Jacob Eason could be available depending on whether some of the other top guys declare and/or how Josh Rosen plays this season. Tua, Hebert, Fromm and Eason are all guys that should go in the first round

RT-How do you feel about Tyrell Crosby stepping into the RT position? 

DT-Do you think Bob Quinn would be willing the shell out money for a Harrison extension?

OLB-Do you see Fred Davis getting pushed outside and Tavai taking over inside? 

RB-I think Ty Johnson was a nice find and him and Kerryon will be a fun duo to watch in the next few years. Would you be okay with Zach Zenner being the third after CJ and Riddick are gone? 

WR-What FA are you eyeing next year at this position? Also, do you think Brandon Powell would be able to take over the slot when Danny leaves? 

QB-If there is another sub .500 season do you think it’s time to pull the plug on Stafford? What if we are picking in the top 20 and one of those QB’s fall to us do we still pull the trigger? 

Edited by Lionized

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2 hours ago, Lionized said:

RT-How do you feel about Tyrell Crosby stepping into the RT position? 

DT-Do you think Bob Quinn would be willing the shell out money for a Harrison extension?

OLB-Do you see Fred Davis getting pushed outside and Tavai taking over inside? 

RB-I think Ty Johnson was a nice find and him and Kerryon will be a fun duo to watch in the next few years. Would you be okay with Zach Zenner being the third after CJ and Riddick are gone? 

WR-What FA are you eyeing next year at this position? Also, do you think Brandon Powell would be able to take over the slot when Danny leaves? 

QB-If there is another sub .500 season do you think it’s time to pull the plug on Stafford? What if we are picking in the top 20 and one of those QB’s fall to us do we still pull the trigger? 

RT/Crosby: Very good question. Hard to say. I think he played LT at Oregon. He should be given a chance to fill that spot. At worse, we need quality depth and a swing tackle.

DT/Harrison: It really depends on what he wants. It could be a short extension, maybe 2 years. He's 30 years old. If they can fill his role with a similar type of player at a significantly reduced cost, they'll definitely do it. I think they're going to wait on doing that deal until they've evaluated PJ and see if there isn't a huge drop off.

OLB: I think they're going to try and put both guys all over the place. Davis has improved in coverage but that isn't one of his strengths in general. Tavai was dropped in coverage quite often in the little bit of tape that I saw (vs San Jose State and small highlight video).

RB: Johnson could be a nice steal.. at least some decent depth. I'm still not sold on Kerryon's health and expect that he's a RB1 in a RBBC where he's spelled often enough. He's not going to be a bellcow but will be productive. I really like the player but his health is always going to be a question mark. It doesn't really matter because this is what the team wants to do philosophically anyway.

WR: I took a peek but haven't really looked at the FA class. There will always be guys that are in there unexpectedly and there are guys who are on the lists that will never see the open market. A guy like Powell could make his impact on the roster and wind up filling the TJ Jones spot (if not better). If we have a WR group of five - six guys, we need to add at least 3 guys. I don't think Marvin is here past next season and Amendola is only on a 1 year deal.

QB: If we're sitting there below .500, then we're probably going to be in the top 10 again. So any of the top guys should be in the mix for us. I'd say that it should be in play if we're picking anywhere between 1 and 16 and one of those guys is available, assuming bad QB play has been a factor in that.

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5 hours ago, Lionized said:

WR-Also, do you think Brandon Powell would be able to take over the slot when Danny leaves? 

I have a feeling we're going to get at least a glance of if that will work or not this season when Amendola gets hurt.

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Great topic!  I tried starting a thread similar, but pre-draft there was just too much content.   

Here is my take on the current presumed depth chart, and how it might look beyond 2019...

I will break reply into offense and defense so it’s a bit easier to process.  Need scale- 0 is lowest priority, and 10 is high priority

QB:  Stafford- I’m not sure where the disconnect on his cap figure is.  I read and listened (sports talk radio) to dozens of scenarios regarding moving on from Stafford.   His dead cap is 55M this year.   Next year it’s costs 31m to keep him, or 26m to cut him.   The 5m we’d save wouldn’t pay a decent backup- to be a backup!    When you consider he’s already down to #7 in average salary, I’d guess he’ll be #14 by 2020.   I like that Cook has an arm.  I’m not sure I like Savage.   I wish we’d gave drafted a QB in 6-7 but whatever.   I think we are above average and set at QB for the next 4 years, possibly we’ll above.   We have him til age 34, meaning he will be younger when his contract is done, than A Rodgers is today!

-summary: we have 4 years with Stafford unless the wheels come off.  If that happens it’s a full tear down with a new system.   This assumes progress of Matty and Bob, and their “system” staying in place    Is like to see a better backup situation, maybe a 3rd rounder next year.

 

RB:  I love Kerryon.  CJ was my ideal backup.  Not the threat to battle to start (ego) of Hyde or Ingram, but more than sufficient to play the lead role 2-3 games and adequately handle 5/6 carries a game.   I love that he humbled himself and promised to be in better shape too.   The rookie TJ has speed we haven’t seen since J Best.   Zenner is solid on ST, and in my opinion Riddick expendable, but provides value if we keep him.

-Summary: we have a dynamic albeit fragile young RB.   He’s got 3 years left.  The depth behind him is either short term (1 yr deals) or unproven.  I like the group a lot though.   

 

WR:  We all like Golladay, what’s not to like.   It would be nice if Quinn started extending some key players, and he’s one of them. Give him 4 years and 44m extension?   That would equate to about 6 years and 46m when added to his current.   That’s less per year overall than Humphrey’s got, and the extension alone is a notch above Tate.   The price for a 900 yard and 6-7 TD will be 12m per year plus by 2020.   He could be well beyond that.   That brings me to Marvin Jones...  why does everyone want to move on?  He’s got 2 years left at 9m per.  We save like 3m by cutting him this year, and 6.5m by cutting him next year.   What 29 year old WRs that average 950 yards and 6-8 tds a year are being signed for 5-6m per year????   If he catches 65 balls for 900 yards and 6 tds, he’s well outplaying what a UFA would cost.   Our depth is awful.   We need a solid free agent at WR next year.   Our depth is blah and short term  

 

TE:  we are beyond set.   James was a top 7-8 TE under 26.   Hock should be a potential Pro Bowler.  Our presumed #5 TE had 3 touchdowns last year.   What a difference a year makes.  We are set for 4 plus years!

 

OL:  Decker is now set for 2 years, and Ragnow for 4 more.   I really think we need to ink Glasgow now!  4 years and 40m extension.  Decker and Rags are cheap enough.   Wagners isn’t cheap, but it’s not catastrophic.   He grades out above average, and Hock next to him will help.   He’s here for 3 more if we want him.   We only save 5.5m next year by cutting him, and again- NO CHANCE WE FIND A BETTER TACKLE FOR 5.5M PER YEAR!   Unless we waste a first round pick at RT, and ignore drafting an impact player.   I’d ride him out as long as he’s above average for the next 2, cut him after 2020.   THAT LEAVES RG- between Crosby, Dahl, Wiggins, Oday A, and I like the Beau Benschwazel pick-up as an udfa.  I’d love to find out Crosby is our future RG, and extend Glasgow  

 

Summary- backup QB, WR2/3, RG, and backup RB is all we need on offense,   That’s even going into 2020-  I assume we sign a WR, sign a RB2, draft a RG and a backup QB next year!   Overall I’m only worried about QB this year   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Defense-

Safety- Diggs 3 more years at 6m per, and we have T Walker for 3 years and rookie W Harris for 4 years.   Plus one year of Tavon for extra depth.   We have 9m total per year over 4 safeties.   Could be a nice group.   Many of us didn’t know much, or say much about Harris.  However if we’d have drafted Adderley, Rapp, Chauncey-Gardner, or somebody we talked more about, there would be more buzz.  Between Harris and Walker we should have one really good starter next to Diggs. 

 

Corner- Slay is top shelf, and deserves a 3 year and 45m extension now. We have 2 more years regardless.   We have Coleman at age 25 for 4 years.  We have Melvin for a veteran presence.  I wanted Amani in rd 2 after a trade down.   He was a top 5 CB on my board.  I loved the pick.  I love that Slay is his role model.  Add in scrappy Ford and Agnew- see ya Teez. Again a ton of depth and long term contracts here.   Love it!

 

Linebacker- ugh.   Van Noy was a fit for the prior Regime.  Quinn admitted he likes, and feels more comfortable scouting and drafting to this defensive scheme.   Tavai is a similar body type and athleticism.  He’s a tic stronger, a tenth slower in the forty, an inch better vertical, an inch less broad.   Similar competition- Tavai has way more tackles, and Van Noy more sacks   However, the 125 tackle with 19 TFL and 6 sacks and 1 int was pretty amazing.   Could be something here.  The down side is that likely means Davis is old regime, and maybe doesn’t fit.  I hope he becomes a blitz wlb as he has 2 more cheap years.   Kennard also has 2 more years at decent pay if he can duplicate his production from last year at 6/7 sacks a year from SLB- we have no depth here.  Jones for one year is it!   NEED A COVERAGE LB BAD!   Sign Zach Brown!!!!!

 

DL:  Please extend Snacks.   He’s the leader and workhorse   Give him 2 more years and 18m on top of the two he has   Make it really a big 1 year extension.  Keep the glue.  It looks like we drafted mini snacks with similar college path.   Out of nowhere!   Maybe extend Ashawn?  Keep Hand rushing from DT, and kick out to DE on run downs.   Contract lengths are scary here  

DE- I love Flowers, Okwara, and Bryant for 2 plus years each!   If Hand plays more at DE, we are set here, and have need at DT.  If Hand is more DT, then we need another Edge

 

Summary- extend Slay, Snacks and Ashawn!   At least the first 2....   sign 2- Zach Brown, Corey Luiget, and Ziggy Ansah - sign 2

Flowers/Okwara

Hand/Ashawn

Snacks/ PJ Johnson

Ziggy/ A Bryant

 

J Davis/Maybin

Z Brown/Tavai

Kennard/C Jones

 

Slay/Amani

Diggs/ W Harris

T Walker/W Harris

Coleman/Melvin

 

 

 

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On 4/29/2019 at 6:28 PM, ThaFranchize said:

Summary- extend Slay, Snacks and Ashawn!   At least the first 2....   sign 2- Zach Brown, Corey Luiget, and Ziggy Ansah - sign 2

Flowers/Okwara

Hand/Ashawn

Snacks/ PJ Johnson

Ziggy/ A Bryant

 

J Davis/Maybin

Z Brown/Tavai

Kennard/C Jones

 

Slay/Amani

Diggs/ W Harris

T Walker/W Harris

Coleman/Melvin

Can I get on this Train? all around like this!

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An inferior player to Wagner got 16 mli per year this offseason. Don't be so quick to think he can be easily replaced or upgraded. 

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2 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

An inferior player to Wagner got 16 mli per year this offseason. Don't be so quick to think he can be easily replaced or upgraded. 

Fair enough! You could be right. Maybe they'd look to the draft instead.

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Jack Conklin is a guy that’ll be available next year that could be a cheap option. Take a flyer on him. 

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Unrelated, when the window is minimized on this thread,  I have the task bar vertically along the side and the small internet icon shows "FAR T.."

Made me chuckle

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I don't know who could possibly think we're set at pass rush with guys like Hand, Okwara and Kennard as our premium pass rushers. Even Flowers is low on actual sack production. They really needed to get more talent at pass rush in the draft. Unless Bryant is on the level of Hand as far as unexpected value, they're going to need more next year 

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19 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

I don't know who could possibly think we're set at pass rush with guys like Hand, Okwara and Kennard as our premium pass rushers. Even Flowers is low on actual sack production. They really needed to get more talent at pass rush in the draft. Unless Bryant is on the level of Hand as far as unexpected value, they're going to need more next year 

I could be wrong but isn't it part of the Patriots philosophy that they're more focused on pressures and having a few guys that get sacks as opposed to having a double digit sack guy. They wouldn't turn down the production if its there but systematically it's not what they're looking to generate.

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3 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I could be wrong but isn't it part of the Patriots philosophy that they're more focused on pressures and having a few guys that get sacks as opposed to having a double digit sack guy. They wouldn't turn down the production if its there but systematically it's not what they're looking to generate.

Kinda a 50/50 philosophy don't you think?

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