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Hypothetical : Jones vs. Haskins

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6 minutes ago, Counselor said:

It was funny that Gmen in the Giants forum tried to tell me that it sounds like Denver settled on Lock. The other interesting argument, is the whole if Lock was your guy you should have taken him at 10 so because Elway traded down and waited to trade up to 42 to take him he couldn’t have been their top QB. It’s a cute attempt to justify the decision to reach for Jones as “he was our guy so you always take your guy you don’t mess around and risk losing him, so because of that Lock couldn’t have been Elways top QB”. Elway followed his board and got his top QB at 42. It was masterful. It is well known the infatuation Elway has with Lock. Every expert was mocking him to us for months. Elway went to watch him play live. 

To be fair, I'm convincing myself of the "get your guy" theory with Tytus Howard - it's a need, and the guy you wanted to get was sniped one pick ahead of you, so go with your grade and your gut. For better or worse, it happened.

Doesn't mean I'm going to "stan" the pick or the FO. It was another case of sleeping at the wheel for the Texans FO.

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4 minutes ago, Counselor said:

It was funny that Gmen in the Giants forum tried to tell me that it sounds like Denver settled on Lock. The other interesting argument, is the whole if Lock was your guy you should have taken him at 10 so because Elway traded down and waited to trade up to 42 to take him he couldn’t have been their top QB. It’s a cute attempt to justify the decision to reach for Jones as “he was our guy so you always take your guy you don’t mess around and risk losing him, so because of that Lock couldn’t have been Elways top QB”. Elway followed his board and got his top QB at 42. It was masterful. It is well known the infatuation Elway has with Lock. Almost every analyst that knew anything was mocking him to us for months. Elway went to watch him play live. 

Mel Kiper had a good take on Jones going at 6 :

“There’s only one person that matters. Dave Gettleman matters, because he’s making the pick,” Kiper said. “My opinion is that you cannot, there’s no way if you feel Jones is a top, elite quarterback that you can wait until 17 to take him.”

Letting every team have a shot at your franchise quarterback, like the Broncos did, is the exact opposite of what Kiper is talking about. It’s like telling a girl she’s the love of your life, and then letting 32 guys have a chance of stealing her away from you. 

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8 minutes ago, Gmen said:

Mel Kiper had a good take on Jones going at 6 :

“There’s only one person that matters. Dave Gettleman matters, because he’s making the pick,” Kiper said. “My opinion is that you cannot, there’s no way if you feel Jones is a top, elite quarterback that you can wait until 17 to take him.”

Letting every team have a shot at your franchise quarterback, like the Broncos did, is the exact opposite of what Kiper is talking about. It’s like telling a girl she’s the love of your life, and then letting 32 guys have a chance of stealing her away from you. 

That’s fine and I agree you should get your guy. But using that argument like I’ve seen that Elway couldn’t have had Lock as his top QB or that he settled is asinine. Elway went off his whole board. He felt comfortable enough with Flacco for now to let value fall to him and he did that and not reach based on need. He has learned from the Paxton Lynch decision and so forth. 

Side note: If a guy can steal the love of your life away then you weren’t the love of hers. 

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6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

To be fair, I'm convincing myself of the "get your guy" theory with Tytus Howard - it's a need, and the guy you wanted to get was sniped one pick ahead of you, so go with your grade and your gut. For better or worse, it happened.

Doesn't mean I'm going to "stan" the pick or the FO. It was another case of sleeping at the wheel for the Texans FO.

Different situation for NYG at 6

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Gmen said:

Mel Kiper had a good take on Jones going at 6 :

“There’s only one person that matters. Dave Gettleman matters, because he’s making the pick,” Kiper said. “My opinion is that you cannot, there’s no way if you feel Jones is a top, elite quarterback that you can wait until 17 to take him.”

Letting every team have a shot at your franchise quarterback, like the Broncos did, is the exact opposite of what Kiper is talking about. It’s like telling a girl she’s the love of your life, and then letting 32 guys have a chance of stealing her away from you. 

In Elway's case, though, the love of his life has a caveat - when he uses that line 4x in 5 years, it's not quite as believable.  It's the same reaction when a 3-time divorced 40 year old says he's met the love of his life.  You wish him well, but hope he didn't get that permanent tattoo with her name.     In Elway's case, he's really saying "I like you, but I'm not offering you the ring yet" - which is a fair premise IMO.  But also not one you spend a 1st round pick on (that's the ring).   This is more like "let's move in together, there might be something here".   

Lock's not that "love of my life, no one else" type talent.    So it's fine to let him fall.  That was my entire mantra the entire offseason with DEN, so it's not like I"m changing my tune.  If another team had taken him, so be it.   Lock's not that must-have talent.    The debate is really whether Jones is, too.   

If Jones is a can't miss guy, you don't let him fall.  Same with Lock.  The argument most are making is that both are them aren't can't miss, must-have guys or even "he might be a keeper at QB" type evaluation.  That's the entire premise of the 2019 draft, TBH.  I personally only think Haskins is that kind of talent out of the QB's left for NYG/DEN/WAS, FWIW.  We'll see.   

 

Edited by Broncofan

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1 minute ago, Counselor said:

Side note: If a guy can steal the love of your life away then you weren’t the love of hers. 

That’s deep. And very true

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Just now, Counselor said:

Different situation for NYG at 6

Oh, I totally agree. The Giants had close to the pick of the litter, and went Jones. It's not like the Cardinals traded up for Murray or someone leapfrogged the Giants for Haskins - that was their board, and they're going to live and die on that hill.

Interesting - Daniel Jones will be the 2nd Duke QB to start for the Giants; Dave Brown started for them in the 90s right after the Phil Simms era. The Giants burned a 1st round pick to get Brown in the Supplemental draft - after football, he went on to become SVP of Private Equity for Lehman Brothers investment group. 

That's quite the resume.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Gmen said:

That’s deep. And very true

No it's not. If a guy "loves someone and let's her go" when she is the love of his life, he's acting weak by not showing her he has the balls to declare his place beside his woman (that he is certain), instead choosing to hope that if he does nothing the woman will still choose him. If a woman pursues a guy who doesn't pursue her, she has some self-esteem issues--not love of life stuff there.

tl;dr go get the love of your life

1. Jones might be garbage but this says they believe in him.

2. If Lock ends up being good, risking him falling to the mid-second after choosing the second best tight end in the later first round is just What getting lucky. Tons of teams could have jumped him.

Edited by NudeTayne

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6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Oh, I totally agree. The Giants had close to the pick of the litter, and went Jones. It's not like the Cardinals traded up for Murray or someone leapfrogged the Giants for Haskins - that was their board, and they're going to live and die on that hill.

Interesting - Daniel Jones will be the 2nd Duke QB to start for the Giants; Dave Brown started for them in the 90s right after the Phil Simms era. The Giants burned a 1st round pick to get Brown in the Supplemental draft - after football, he went on to become SVP of Private Equity for Lehman Brothers investment group. 

That's quite the resume.

He should stick with introducing himself  as former quarterback dave brown, he of the 26-34 career record and 44:58 td:int ratio as that is still far more important then telling anyone you worked for Lehman. 

Bad quarterback > helping to oversee the collapse of a 150 years old financial services business. 

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1 minute ago, NudeTayne said:

No it's not. If a guy "loves someone and let's her go" when she is the love of his life, he's acting weak by not showing her he has the balls to declare his place beside his woman (that he is certain), instead choosing to hope that if he does nothing the woman will still choose him.

tl;dr go get the love of your life

There is something to said for this too. Women, like quarterbacks, want to feel appreciated. They want you to show you’re willing to fight for them. A few months after I started dating my current girlfriend, she asked me if she can have lunch with her ex. She said he’d be in town and they were friends long before dating, etc, blah blah. I didn’t feel like I was in a position to say no that early in the relationship, but I made it clear that I wouldn’t be happy about it and that I’m possessive. She didn’t end up going. 6 months later, I asked her about that episode, and she said she just wanted to see how I’d react. 

Are we off topic? I feel like we’re off topic. 

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7 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

No it's not. If a guy "loves someone and let's her go" when she is the love of his life, he's acting weak by not showing her he has the balls to declare his place beside his woman (that he is certain), instead choosing to hope that if he does nothing the woman will still choose him. If a woman pursues a guy who doesn't pursue her, she has some self-esteem issues--not love of life stuff there.

tl;dr go get the love of your life

No one said not to go get her or to not treat her like a queen. The point is if she leaves you then you weren’t the love of her life. 

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1 minute ago, Gmen said:

There is something to said for this too. Women, like quarterbacks, want to feel appreciated. They want you to show you’re willing to fight for them. A few months after I started dating my current girlfriend, she asked me if she can have lunch with her ex. She said he’d be in town and they were friends long before dating, etc, blah blah. I didn’t feel like I was in a position to say no that early in the relationship, but I made it clear that I wouldn’t be happy about it and that I’m possessive. She didn’t end up going. 6 months later, I asked her about that episode, and she said she just wanted to see how I’d react. 

Are we off topic? I feel like we’re off topic. 

Lol you quoted before the edit above. You get it. Not sure if Jones is the guy, but Elway was an idiot if he really loved Lock (which he didn't).

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Counselor said:

No one said not to go get her or to not treat her like a queen. The point is if she leaves you then you weren’t the love of her life. 

But this anecdote isn't about her leaving the guy. It's about him making no real effort to show that she is that important to him.

Only Jones got treated like a queen, not Lock. Lock got treated like just a "shrug...what the hell...*finishes drink and goes up to middling girl at the bar.*"

Edited by NudeTayne

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5 minutes ago, Gmen said:

There is something to said for this too. Women, like quarterbacks, want to feel appreciated. They want you to show you’re willing to fight for them. A few months after I started dating my current girlfriend, she asked me if she can have lunch with her ex. She said he’d be in town and they were friends long before dating, etc, blah blah. I didn’t feel like I was in a position to say no that early in the relationship, but I made it clear that I wouldn’t be happy about it and that I’m possessive. She didn’t end up going. 6 months later, I asked her about that episode, and she said she just wanted to see how I’d react. 

Are we off topic? I feel like we’re off topic. 

Naw she told you that she just wanted to see how you’d react because of how you would have reacted. And you’ve probably shown her some of that possessive side of you in the last sixth months that she just doesn’t want to even elicit with a wrong answer. She really wanted to have lunch with him but chose to respect you to your knowledge. Who knows if she still went another time.

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Just now, NudeTayne said:

But this anecdote isn't about her leaving the guy. It's about him making no real effort to show that she is that important to him.

I made it a side note for a reason. 

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