Hypothetical : Jones vs. Haskins

[Gmen]

6 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Well that’s stupid. Barkley was too good to pass up for QBs with flaws but Josh Allen wasn’t  too good to pass for a QB who has even more flaws? 

Barkley was supposed to complement Odell and vice versa. So getting rid of Odell just devalues the Barkley pick because we all know how defenses are gonna defend us 

Josh Allen wasn’t too good to pass up. He’s nowhere near the prospect Barkley was. In fact, 6 other teams did pass on him and he was the 5th defensive player drafted.

Barkley faced plenty of 8 man fronts even with OBJ. With the addition on Zeitler, and Hernandez having a year of experience, the running game will be fun to watch. Jones’ athleticism will also open up the offense. 

[Kip Smithers]

1 hour ago, Gmen said:

Josh Allen wasn’t too good to pass up. He’s nowhere near the prospect Barkley was. In fact, 6 other teams did pass on him and he was the 5th defensive player drafted.

Barkley faced plenty of 8 man fronts even with OBJ. With the addition on Zeitler, and Hernandez having a year of experience, the running game will be fun to watch. Jones’ athleticism will also open up the offense. 

And Jones wasn’t close to the prospect Allen was yet we still picked him

[BleedTheClock]

20 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Finley is way more athletic than you are giving him credit for. He runs just fine and actually pretty quick. Maybe Jones edges him, but barely. 

Arm strength. Size. Definitely athleticism. Toughness under duress. Escapability within the pocket. He's younger. 

[BayRaider]

7 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Arm strength. Size. Definitely athleticism. Toughness under duress. Escapability within the pocket. He's younger. 

Finleys arm strength is better than Jones. Jones arm is not good. Out of the Top Six QBs prospects he has the weakest arm. Finley is 6’6” and can add weight. Finley has the best pocket poise of the class so I’d say he’s more tough under duress/pressure. Younger/escapability ill give you but the escapability is close. 

[Daniel]

While I do think Jones is a significantly better prospect than Finley, I also think the line between Finley and Jones isn't as wide as the line between Jones and Haskins, much less the line between Jones and Darnold.

[Gmen]

2 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

And Jones wasn’t close to the prospect Allen was yet we still picked him

Bottom line is the Giants passed on a quarterback last year because the best running back prospect in 25 years was on the board. This year they took who they believe was the best quarterback available. I have no problem with this. Especially after seeing Darnold’s lackluster season last year, and Barkley’s tremendous season. I don’t understand how some Giants fans in particular are upset with how things played out. You’d honestly rather have Darnold and Allen than Saquon and Jones? I don’t see the appeal personally.

[PossibleCabbage]

I would take "top half of the league NFL QB" over "best RB in the last 25 years" 100 times out of 100.

[offbyone]

9 hours ago, Gmen said:

Bottom line is the Giants passed on a quarterback last year because the best running back prospect in 25 years was on the board. This year they took who they believe was the best quarterback available. I have no problem with this. Especially after seeing Darnold’s lackluster season last year, and Barkley’s tremendous season. I don’t understand how some Giants fans in particular are upset with how things played out. You’d honestly rather have Darnold and Allen than Saquon and Jones? I don’t see the appeal personally.

Barkley is a freak, but in the end he is only a running back.  He likely has a shelf life.  He got worked hard last year, and likely will this year.   I don't think Jones is the same level prospect as Allen or Darnold.  

The oddest thing about this pick is that Jones is probably the most ready to go of all of this years prospects.  Yet they still have Eli on your roster.  Seems like it would have been a better fit for a team with no qb.  Why draft a ready to go but lower ceiling QB when you have a situation where you can develop one with high potential?

I think Haskins is a long shot to be a franchise qb.  But he has all the potential and the price was a heck of a lot cheaper than Jones.

The ironic thing about all this is Jones is ready to go, but Haskins will likely start sooner.  How funny is that.

In the end it doesn't matter.  If he becomes a franchise qb, that pick was pocket change.  Haskins, same thing.

Edited May 3, 2019 by offbyone

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Kip Smithers]

9 hours ago, Gmen said:

Bottom line is the Giants passed on a quarterback last year because the best running back prospect in 25 years was on the board. This year they took who they believe was the best quarterback available. I have no problem with this. Especially after seeing Darnold’s lackluster season last year, and Barkley’s tremendous season. I don’t understand how some Giants fans in particular are upset with how things played out. You’d honestly rather have Darnold and Allen than Saquon and Jones? I don’t see the appeal personally.

I agreed with the Saquon pick because we had Odell and I thought that we’d likely be in a position the following year to take a QB worthy of a high pick. But what follows is that we get rid of a game breaking talent, get rid of our best defensive players and then we draft a QB in which nearly everyone knew wasn’t worth a first round pick let alone the 6th pick. 

Youre encouraged given how Darnold struggled last year? If anything you should be concerned because if Jones somehow sees the field early expect the same if not worse. Would I rather have an all time great RB prospect and a 2nd-3rd QB prospect or 2 top 10 prospects. I’ll go the latter. 

[Gmen]

8 hours ago, offbyone said:

Barkley is a freak, but in the end he is only a running back.  He likely has a shelf life.  He got worked hard last year, and likely will this year. 

We’re getting a bit off topic discussing Barkley, but he’s more than just a running back. He’s a play maker. Whereas a running back like Gurley scores most of his Touchdowns from within 10 yards, Barkley scores touchdowns from anywhere and everywhere on the field due to his freakish athleticism. Play makers like this are extremely valuable regardless of position. He’s a threat to score on every play. 

The shelf life argument is so silly to me. If we get 8 great years from Barkley, he’ll be well worth the pick. I’ll take 8 great years from a running back over 14 average years from a quarterback. Nothing in the NFL is a given and teams change quickly, so you can’t look ahead an entire decade when making a pick. 

[ET80]

On 5/2/2019 at 4:15 PM, PossibleCabbage said:

I would take "top half of the league NFL QB" over "best RB in the last 25 years" 100 times out of 100.

So you'd take Dak Prescott over Zeke Elliott? I mean, that's what you're proposing if you get specific.

[PossibleCabbage]

14 minutes ago, ET80 said:

So you'd take Dak Prescott over Zeke Elliott? I mean, that's what you're proposing if you get specific.

Knowing what they would become I would, yes.  A team without a top half of the league QB has no chance of a championship, barring a historic defense.  Like the three most important components of a championship organization (in descending order of importance):

1. Quarterback
2. Coaching
3. Defense

I wouldn't have taken Zeke over Jalen Ramsey that year, let alone a quarterback I thought could play (assuming I didn't already have one in house.)  I mean, 9 times out of ten it's the OL that makes the RB anyway.  I personally hated the Saquon pick more than the Jones pick and 100% believe the Giants are a better team with Darnold and Allen (or whatever good defensive player or OL they liked) than with Barkley and Jones.

Edited May 3, 2019 by PossibleCabbage

[ET80]

14 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

Knowing what they would become I would, yes.  A team without a top half of the league QB has no chance of a championship, barring a historic defense.  Like the three most important components of a championship organization (in descending order of importance):

1. Quarterback
2. Coaching
3. Defense

I wouldn't have taken Zeke over Jalen Ramsey that year, let alone a quarterback I thought could play (assuming I didn't already have one in house.)  I mean, 9 times out of ten it's the OL that makes the RB anyway.  I personally hated the Saquon pick more than the Jones pick and 100% believe the Giants are a better team with Darnold and Allen (or whatever good defensive player or OL they liked) than with Barkley and Jones.

Fair take - I'm thinking your number is too low (I'd say top 10 vs top 15) but a good assessment overall. 

[PossibleCabbage]

I mean, the whole reason the NFL is better at "selling hope" than other sports leagues is that pretty much every team is "hitting on a QB" away from relevancy.