Ranking the (B)East - QB

[Kiltman]

31 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

"Wentz only played well because he had the best supporting cast in the NFL. Give Dak a great OL and weapons like that and he would perform just as well"

What?

[Matts4313]

9 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

What?

The knock on Dak is he can only play well when he has the best talent in the NFL. 

But somehow when Dak has a crap cast and Wentz has the best in the NFL - - we all just turn a blind eye.

[Kiltman]

4 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

The knock on Dak is he can only play well when he has the best talent in the NFL. 

But somehow when Dak has a crap cast and Wentz has the best in the NFL - - we all just turn a blind eye.

Wasn’t that the argument you just made a couple pages ago when you used Dak’s 10 games last year “with a legit receiver”?

[Matts4313]

57 minutes ago, Danger said:

Wentz:
GP% 78.1%
Win% 66.7%
Comp% 64.7%
Tot Y/G 281.8
TD/G 2.3
INT+FUM/G 1.3 (Note this is total Fumbles not Fumbles lost which are actual turnovers)
ANY/A 7.16

I wanted to compromise. So I removed Dak's rookie season. I also removed the games I referred to (bottom 5 OL and offensive weapons). What we are left with is the start of '17 (before Smith/Elliott) and the end of '18 (after Cooper). Here are Dak's stats for those games:

GP% 100%
Win%  75% =>12 - 4 record
Comp% 68%
Tot Y/G 269 ypg
TD/G 2.25
INT+FUM/G .81 (Note this is total Fumbles not Fumbles lost which are actual turnovers)
AY/A 8.16

 

Still pretty good, no?

Edited May 1, 2019 by Matts4313

[Danger]

Just now, Matts4313 said:

I wanted to compromise. So I removed Dak's rookie season. I also removed the games I referred to (bottom 5 OL and offensive weapons). What we are left with is the start of '17 (before Smith/Elliott) and the end of '18 (after Cooper). Here are Dak's stats for those games:

GP% 100%
Win  12 - 4 record
Comp% 68%
Tot Y/G 269 ypg
TD/G 2.25
INT+FUM/G .81 (Note this is total Fumbles not Fumbles lost which are actual turnovers)
AY/A 8.16

 

Still pretty good, no?

Mind telling me exactly which games are left?

For clarification, at this very moment in time, I have Wentz somewhere around 8-10 in the league, Dak somewhere 12-14, not saying he's a bum like a lot of other Eagles fans.

[Matts4313]

Just now, Danger said:

Mind telling me exactly which games are left?

For clarification, at this very moment in time, I have Wentz somewhere around 8-10 in the league, Dak somewhere 12-14, not saying he's a bum like a lot of other Eagles fans.

Games 1-8 of 2017 => Game 9 was the 8 Sack Falcons game with no Elliot or Smith. The start of the downfall. 

Games 9-16 of 2018  => Game 8 was the first game with Cooper. The start of the rebound.

 

I think I can speak for all Cowboys fans in saying that 16 game span from '17 Falcons to '18 Titans were objectively awful. I think its also fair to say the other 32 games Dak has been really good. Arguably better than Wentz. Arguably top 10 in the NFL. 

 

[Danger]

Just now, Matts4313 said:

I think I can speak for all Cowboys fans in saying that 16 game span from '17 Falcons to '18 Titans were objectively awful. I think its also fair to say the other 32 games Dak has been really good. Arguably better than Wentz. Arguably top 10 in the NFL. 

I can't see that personally, simply because of how hard he regressed in the interim. If he can have an entire season of performing how he did in those games you selected for this analysis, then perhaps I can put him there. 

Both of these QBs have the ability to climb the ranks.

[buddy_z34]

2 hours ago, Woz said:

This.

I wanted a "none of the above" option.

But their future looks bright. 

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, Danger said:

I can't see that personally, simply because of how hard he regressed in the interim. If he can have an entire season of performing how he did in those games you selected for this analysis, then perhaps I can put him there. 

Both of these QBs have the ability to climb the ranks.

You agree that football is a team sport? 

Do you also agree having a godawful pass blocking OL and the worst rated WR group in the NFL would make a QB regress? 

[Danger]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

You agree that football is a team sport? 

Do you also agree having a godawful pass blocking OL and the worst rated WR group in the NFL would make a QB regress? 

Yes football is a team sport, but even accounting for what was around him, he shouldn't have fallen to the degree that he did. He was worse than Blake Bortles for a long stretch of time.

[resilient part 2]

My vote will over ride everyone else. Since I have never proven to be incompetent.

Dak, because he steps up in  the 4th quarter. Somethings can't be taught.. 

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, Danger said:

Yes football is a team sport, but even accounting for what was around him, he shouldn't have fallen to the degree that he did. He was worse than Blake Bortles for a long stretch of time.

Sure. Dak himself admitted that the Falcons game gave him the yips and he had to work it out. I, personally, think he got concussed. But there are some pretty valid reasons as to why he regressed. And there is a pretty valid reason why he turned it around. 

[Danger]

Just now, Matts4313 said:

Sure. Dak himself admitted that the Falcons game gave him the yips and he had to work it out. I, personally, think he got concussed. But there are some pretty valid reasons as to why he regressed. And there is a pretty valid reason why he turned it around. 

I said it even early in this season. Biggest problem Dak had was that he was thinking about everything instead of reacting, because he had lost all confidence in himself.

It was a mental problem more than anything. The biggest questions moving forward are, what exactly is his ceiling? and Can he prevent his slumps from snowballing out of control again? because he's going to have them.

[MKnight82]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

"Wentz only played well because he had the best supporting cast in the NFL. Give Dak a great OL and weapons like that and he would perform just as well"

Hasn't Dallas spent like 17 first round picks on Oline lately?  

[Matts4313]

I think I have talked myself into a Dak vote. Here are my reasons:

Dak had a terrible 16 game stretch. Wentz has missed 8 games and has played banged up in several more. Those are both QBs biggest knocks, so lets cancel them out.

You look at the remaining games and Dak has consistently been better. Better over a 1 year, 2 year or 3 year stretch (again, removing the bad stretch). Daks remaining 32 games stack up nicely to any 32 game stretch by Wentz. 

 

I dont know. Its close. They are both in the ~8-12 range imo.