Should Haskins sit his Rookie Year?

[Woz]

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

 Louis Riddick is thinking just like me. 

One other thing: I don't know if you noticed the little pop up that appeared at 1:52 in the video you linked that said "Since 2008, 23 of 32 first-round QBs started at least 10 games their rookie season" (something I addressed earlier in that thread). The nine that didn't:

QBs who the football watching universe has had time to fully render judgment on:

• Josh Freeman - 8 games
• Tim Tebow - 2 games
• Jake Locker - entire rookie season
• Christian Ponder - 9 games
• Johnny Manziel - 2 games

So, sitting didn't help any of those guys. In fact, only Josh Freeman ever started at QB after his rookie contract expired, and that was only due to wandering the league as the itinerant veteran QB as a backup/spot starter. The others either bombed out (Tebow (done as QB after 2 years, out of the league in 3), Manziel (gone after 2)), retired (Locker), or tried the "McCown" but no team ever trusted him to give him the ball (Ponder).

However, there's younger guys that didn't play much their rookie season. What about them?

• Jared Goff - 6 games
• Patrick Mahomes - 1 game
• Deshaun Watson - 6 games
• Lamar Jackson - 7 games

I have already addressed Mahomes (due to Smith), but Jackson also was in the same situation (behind a long established veteran at the end of his tenure). Like Smith, Flacco was traded after the season when the rookie (Jackson) finally got the starting gig.

Watson didn't start game 1, but was playing by the second half of that game because the nominal starter (Tom Savage) was so horrifically bad (and everyone could see it even before he was given the nod for Week 1). He only didn't play a full slate due to an injury that ended his rookie season.

 

Which brings us to Jared Goff. Goff was hamstrung in rookie season by arguably the worst head coach of the 21st century (so far): Jeff Fisher. I maintain the only reason he had a job for so long is because Stan Kroenke realized the value in having a horrible head coach killing the fanbase's interest in the team so he could move it back to Los Angeles. The man could not coach an offense to save his life. It was amazing (but perhaps not surprising) that a year after he was fired the Rams became an offensive juggernaut with effectively the pieces Fisher had.

Interesting side note: Goff didn't start until week 10 because Fisher went with the veteran QB named ... Case Keenum.

[Skins212689]

2 hours ago, Woz said:

One other thing: I don't know if you noticed the little pop up that appeared at 1:52 in the video you linked that said "Since 2008, 23 of 32 first-round QBs started at least 10 games their rookie season" (something I addressed earlier in that thread). The nine that didn't:

QBs who the football watching universe has had time to fully render judgment on:

• Josh Freeman - 8 games
• Tim Tebow - 2 games
• Jake Locker - entire rookie season
• Christian Ponder - 9 games
• Johnny Manziel - 2 games

So, sitting didn't help any of those guys. In fact, only Josh Freeman ever started at QB after his rookie contract expired, and that was only due to wandering the league as the itinerant veteran QB as a backup/spot starter. The others either bombed out (Tebow (done as QB after 2 years, out of the league in 3), Manziel (gone after 2)), retired (Locker), or tried the "McCown" but no team ever trusted him to give him the ball (Ponder).

However, there's younger guys that didn't play much their rookie season. What about them?

• Jared Goff - 6 games
• Patrick Mahomes - 1 game
• Deshaun Watson - 6 games
• Lamar Jackson - 7 games

I have already addressed Mahomes (due to Smith), but Jackson also was in the same situation (behind a long established veteran at the end of his tenure). Like Smith, Flacco was traded after the season when the rookie (Jackson) finally got the starting gig.

Watson didn't start game 1, but was playing by the second half of that game because the nominal starter (Tom Savage) was so horrifically bad (and everyone could see it even before he was given the nod for Week 1). He only didn't play a full slate due to an injury that ended his rookie season.

 

Which brings us to Jared Goff. Goff was hamstrung in rookie season by arguably the worst head coach of the 21st century (so far): Jeff Fisher. I maintain the only reason he had a job for so long is because Stan Kroenke realized the value in having a horrible head coach killing the fanbase's interest in the team so he could move it back to Los Angeles. The man could not coach an offense to save his life. It was amazing (but perhaps not surprising) that a year after he was fired the Rams became an offensive juggernaut with effectively the pieces Fisher had.

Interesting side note: Goff didn't start until week 10 because Fisher went with the veteran QB named ... Case Keenum.

I dont care about the little pop up. Did you listen to what Riddick said? Sounds pretty close if not the exact approach I would be handling Haskins. Also you keep naming names, Name one Rookie QB who took thier team to the Super Bowl during their Rookie year! I want a Super Bowl not a playoff berth or anything else, just a Super Bowl! Haskins isn't the missing piece to accomplish that THIS season! 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Skins212689

[aceinthehouse]

37 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

I dont care about the little pop up. Did you listen to what Riddick said? Sounds pretty close if not the exact approach I would be handling Haskins. Also you keep naming names, Name one Rookie QB who took thier team to the Super Bowl during their Rookie year! I want a Super Bowl not a playoff berth or anything else, just a Super Bowl! Haskins isn't the missing piece to accomplish that THIS season! 

We were the first team, to have a black QB win the SB.

I want to be the first team, to have a rookie QB win the SB.

Defense wins championships & this defense is good enough on paper to accomplish that, imo.

Providing we stay healthy enough.

Haskins doesn't have to be great his rookie season, for us to make the playoff.

He just has to play well at the right moments & in the right games for us to have a chance.

Which is exactly what I critized Cousins for, in years he was here.

Will Haskins have some tough times & growing pains along the way? Absolutely. All rookies do.

Will Haskins have to make adjustments to his game & have trust in his teammates to help him succeed? Definitely. All rookies do.

But experience isn't gonna come from holding a clipboard for 16 weeks & it certainly is going to slow the game down for him running pre season snaps & traning camp drills.

You never know what you have, till their thrown in the fire.

Our concern is to protect him at all costs & that certainly isn't going to come by throwing him in their in week 12, when half our team is banged up and he's learning from scratch.

Get him in the game early with a healthy team & O-line & let him take his lumps early. Let him have time to adjust to the speed of the NFL so he mentally & physically can adjust to it.

And you do that in week 1, when everybody, including veterans are preparing themselves for a long season & having to make their own adjustments to the game.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

I dont care about the little pop up. Did you listen to what Riddick said?

Given that I literally quoted his arguments verbatim from the thread and then gave counter arguments to each point he made, yeah, I listened to it.

C'mon now.

59 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Name one Rookie QB who took thier team to the Super Bowl during their Rookie year! I want a Super Bowl not a playoff berth or anything else, just a Super Bowl! Haskins isn't the missing piece to accomplish that THIS season! 

And while I have said such player doesn't exist, I also asked why is it so important that Haskins do it this season? Isn't the playing experience (the single thing that everyone says Haskins lacks and is most concerned about!) that is gained in his rookie season useful for years two and beyond? I'm looking for this team to be competitive for the Super Bowl over an entire decade or more, not just a single season.

Again, I'm not saying that Haskins should start week 1. I'm not even saying he should start the first month.

However the original question asked here is "Should Haskins sit his rookie season?" I don't think that makes much sense and, without an established veteran presence leading the team to early success, it doesn't realistically happen in the NFL regardless of the rookie. Pointing to Mahomes and saying "well, he sat and look at him now!" is looking at the decision in a vacuum. The situation that Kansas City found themselves in 2017 is likely not the one Washington will find themselves in 2019. Context matters.

 

Couple other things:

1. As Riddick said, they don't have the wide receiving corps right now to make a Super Bowl run regardless of who they trot out. We could have Peyton Manning in his prime and they'd still probably come up short because of the poor receiving corps. Yes, they'd do better and likely would make the playoffs in this hypothetical, but they'd still likely come up short. Making the decision solely about whether Washington makes the Super Bowl or not with a rookie QB is myopic.
    
2. Keenum is signed only for this season. Let's say that he does well and they win a playoff game, heck make the Conference Championship but come up short because they don't have a fully capable roster for 2019. What then? Do they let him walk? Do they franchise him in an attempt to keep things stable and make another run (and waste another year of Haskins' contract as well as ruin the relationships with the coaching staff (another thing that Riddick said))? Okay, maybe that's far-fetched; this is a guy who on his fifth team in eight years. But even so, how does it help the franchise in the long run to go with Keenum now?

[ovfd55]

I'll start off by saying again I'd love if he could sit first 5 games and avoid Khalil Mack killing Moses and Bellicheck Defense,but don't think its the end of the world if he doesn't.

Reason why is hearing multiple people pre draft the Biggest of them being Louis Riddick say Haskins learned and got better in every game he played this year at Ohio State.

 

Part of this might be I kinda want to see him with healthy team not thrown in late in the season with guys off the street on the field,Don't see any spot where he doesn't see the field this year at all besides Keenum getting us to playoffs which I don't think is likley.

[Woz]

17 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

We were the first team, to have a black QB win the SB.

I want to be the first team, to have a rookie QB win the SB.

That would be nice, but honestly that's not likely nor should it be the driving force one way or the other.

18 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Defense wins championships & this defense is good enough on paper to accomplish that, imo.

Not sure I agree on this point.

18 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Providing we stay healthy enough.

That hasn't been the case for Washington in quite some time. Yes, hiring the consultants could help, but anything they recommend will take time to ripple through the franchise's processes, so I wouldn't count on it helping in 2019.

19 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Haskins doesn't have to be great his rookie season, for us to make the playoff.

He just has to play well at the right moments & in the right games for us to have a chance.

Again, this focus on what he does in his rookie season is not healthy. He's going to be a rookie. He's going to make mistakes. Making the playoffs, while nice, isn't the benchmark of his long term success.

21 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Our concern is to protect him at all costs & that certainly isn't going to come by throwing him in their in week 12, when half our team is banged up and he's learning from scratch.

Also, that would be in the teeth of the NFC East run they'll have to end the season.

21 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

And you do that in week 1, when everybody, including veterans are preparing themselves for a long season & having to make their own adjustments to the game.

And I don't agree with this either unless he just straight up beats Keenum out for the job in training camp.

My take is that Keenum has the inside track (due solely to his experience in the NFL). If it's close, go with Keenum but be prepared to give him the hook. If it's not close in either direction, you have your answer to this question.

[HTTRDynasty]

@Woz You have very sound arguments for why you don't want Haskins sitting all year.  My only counter is due to my concern with his footwork, mechanics and accuracy when under pressure and/or when throwing the deep ball.  I personally think he needs time to clean that up without worrying about 300 pound freaks trying to put him in the hospital every week.  That's something Mahomes was able to get (I know it's not the same situation), and it paid off handsomely for the Chiefs.  

“You see Tom Brady, you see Alex, you see all those guys in the pocket how quick they are with their footwork and how they get the ball out fast,” Mahomes told reporters after practice on Wednesday. “I have to get like that.”

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/5/31/15718874/compare-alex-smith-and-tyler-brays-dropback-with-patrick-mahomes

 

I care about the Redskins long-term success.  I want to be a perennial SB contender over the next decade plus.  I'm not going to be impatient and let one year (2019) ruin my chance at that.

 

EDIT:  Also, there are a ton of stud WRs in next year's draft.  We don't necessarily have to get one in FA.  Would love to pair him with one of the Alabama guys.

Edited May 9, 2019 by HTTRG3Dynasty

[Jeezy Fanatic]

What if we sit him through his full rookie contract and that way we can sign him to a long term extension at a discount?

[lavar703]

8 minutes ago, Jeezy Fanatic said:

What if we sit him through his full rookie contract and that way we can sign him to a long term extension at a discount?

That might mess up his chances for Paisano’s endorsements...

[Jeezy Fanatic]

5 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

That might mess up his chances for Paisano’s endorsements...

Jason Campbell got an endorsement, and we'd have been better off if he sat his whole career.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Jeezy Fanatic

[MikeT14]

34 minutes ago, Jeezy Fanatic said:

Jason Campbell got an endorsement, and we'd have been better off if he sat his whole career.

Worst part is that he’s, what, a Top 10 QB since 91 for us? Maybe better?

[THESKINSFAN21]

4 hours ago, ovfd55 said:

I'll start off by saying again I'd love if he could sit first 5 games and avoid Khalil Mack killing Moses and Bellicheck Defense,but don't think its the end of the world if he doesn't.

Reason why is hearing multiple people pre draft the Biggest of them being Louis Riddick say Haskins learned and got better in every game he played this year at Ohio State.

 

Part of this might be I kinda want to see him with healthy team not thrown in late in the season with guys off the street on the field,Don't see any spot where he doesn't see the field this year at all besides Keenum getting us to playoffs which I don't think is likley.

While the 2017 Raiders certainly aren't the Bears,Mack didn't do squat when we played against him last time on MNF😎

[HTTRDynasty]

4 hours ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

@Woz You have very sound arguments for why you don't want Haskins sitting all year.  My only counter is due to my concern with his footwork, mechanics and accuracy when under pressure and/or when throwing the deep ball.  I personally think he needs time to clean that up without worrying about 300 pound freaks trying to put him in the hospital every week.  That's something Mahomes was able to get (I know it's not the same situation), and it paid off handsomely for the Chiefs.  

“You see Tom Brady, you see Alex, you see all those guys in the pocket how quick they are with their footwork and how they get the ball out fast,” Mahomes told reporters after practice on Wednesday. “I have to get like that.”

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/5/31/15718874/compare-alex-smith-and-tyler-brays-dropback-with-patrick-mahomes

 

I care about the Redskins long-term success.  I want to be a perennial SB contender over the next decade plus.  I'm not going to be impatient and let one year (2019) ruin my chance at that.

 

EDIT:  Also, there are a ton of stud WRs in next year's draft.  We don't necessarily have to get one in FA.  Would love to pair him with one of the Alabama guys.

Just saw a tweet that echoes my thoughts above.

 

[Doc Draper]

4 hours ago, Jeezy Fanatic said:

What if we sit him through his full rookie contract and that way we can sign him to a long term extension at a discount?

 

[Skins212689]

8 hours ago, aceinthehouse said:

We were the first team, to have a black QB win the SB.

I want to be the first team, to have a rookie QB win the SB.

Defense wins championships & this defense is good enough on paper to accomplish that, imo.

Providing we stay healthy enough.

Haskins doesn't have to be great his rookie season, for us to make the playoff.

He just has to play well at the right moments & in the right games for us to have a chance.

Which is exactly what I critized Cousins for, in years he was here.

Will Haskins have some tough times & growing pains along the way? Absolutely. All rookies do.

Will Haskins have to make adjustments to his game & have trust in his teammates to help him succeed? Definitely. All rookies do.

But experience isn't gonna come from holding a clipboard for 16 weeks & it certainly is going to slow the game down for him running pre season snaps & traning camp drills.

You never know what you have, till their thrown in the fire.

Our concern is to protect him at all costs & that certainly isn't going to come by throwing him in their in week 12, when half our team is banged up and he's learning from scratch.

Get him in the game early with a healthy team & O-line & let him take his lumps early. Let him have time to adjust to the speed of the NFL so he mentally & physically can adjust to it.

And you do that in week 1, when everybody, including veterans are preparing themselves for a long season & having to make their own adjustments to the game.

I stop reading aftet the first two sentences. How long ago did Williams get them to the Super Bowl? About 15-20 years right? They don't even have the same owner or type of coach as they did then! Wanting to be the 1st team to win a Super Bowl with a Rookie QB is onething, while it actually happening is something totally different. This team wasn't a QB away from the Super Bowl point blank and simple.