The Curious Case of OLB Bud Dupree

[3rivers]

Just now, Dcash4 said:

No. 

I don't understand the comment , and have explained this in detail a few times.  

[Dcash4]

6 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

I don't understand the comment , and have explained this in detail a few times.  

I have explained, multiple times, in detail why Justin Houston was a hope and a dream and not a realistic signing. But for the sake of fun....

He became available 3 days before Buds Dupree contract locked, he took 2 weeks to sign, would have used up most of our cap space, and signed with a team that easily outbids us due to $100m in cap space. 

Justin Houston was never, ever, a realistic option. 

You can keep hoping we would have signed Houston...but you better come up with what plan B is whenever he signs with the Colts anyway - regardless of what we do or offer.....so, what’s plan B? 

[3rivers]

43 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I have explained, multiple times, in detail why Justin Houston was a hope and a dream and not a realistic signing. But for the sake of fun....

He became available 3 days before Buds Dupree contract locked, he took 2 weeks to sign, would have used up most of our cap space, and signed with a team that easily outbids us due to $100m in cap space. 

Justin Houston was never, ever, a realistic option. 

You can keep hoping we would have signed Houston...but you better come up with what plan B is whenever he signs with the Colts anyway - regardless of what we do or offer.....so, what’s plan B? 

He signed somewhere else, no need to go on about this. It doesn't matter if the other team had $100M or $20M in cap space, the steelers could have signed him based on what he got.  Plan B would have been "here's our best deal, let us know by a certain date, if not interested, it's been nice that you considered being a part of our organization"  - or something like that .

Maybe he would have signed here  as a preferred team to play for as well, nobody knows. Maybe he wouldn't sign here at all, remember the locker room last year... so this will never be known anyways, no need to keep threads about it

I see what you are saying about the timeframe - but that's what makes UFA a race against time and it's when teams need to know  what their plan is. 

Lets not get too animated over this, it's over, and the D should be much improved.  Overpaying existing players is a weakness that colbert has, but I am sure he isn't the only GM, but the the amount recently got in the way of signing Houston.    Considering how last season went in UFA, draft and BS, this year is already looking so much better, lets be thankful for that. I mean, how many here could handle another season comparable to last year? The sky isn't falling 

[Dcash4]

I just....I have no reply. I just don’t have it in me. 

[Big Snack]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

I just....I have no reply. I just don’t have it in me. 

i was here before i finished typing a reply earlier this offseason.

[VigilantZombie]

I don't really care if we needed at tight end I don't see Zach Gentry as a guy who will ever be more than a number 3 tight end he can't block he can't receive I tried to defend him a little bit because I was trying to be optimistic but honestly I pray to God we don't need him to make the roster he probably will just because they drafted him. But he comes to the team was very little skill the only thing he really has to his Advantage he is huge size. That's like saying oh but we needed a kicker so we took one and round one it doesn't make sense to take something because you need it even if that player would probably have gone undrafted. I genuinely believe the Pittsburgh Steelers are the only team that would have drafted Zach Gentry. Now I'm not saying that those Joseph is going to be some sort of elite player but his skill set would have certainly been worth drafting. I hope then four years from now I can honestly say that I was wrong about Zach Gentry but I don't think that's ever going to be the case.

[43M]

7 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I’m not saying I have any answer either, but  you call it laughable, pathetic, and now common sense...that alludes to their being an extremely simple thing we are missing. So what is that?

Seriously? How about...

1)  Dont franchise tag a mediocre OLB when he isn't even starting quality.

2)  Dont claim we are "comfortable"  passing on an OLB because we have a completely unproven late rounder on our roster.

3)  Dont completely ignore an obvious need when we have one starting quality player and no depth at all.

If these things aren't common sense to you, I dont know what to tell you.

7 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

What does “trying” mean? Should we have paid guys who are at best just as good as Dupree? Should we have broke the bank and made cuts to compete against a team with $100M in cap space? Should we have not drafted our ILB, CB, or RB? 

I'd argue that OLB was a top 3 need the last two years.  So what does "trying" mean?  It means doing something different to try to improve a bad situation.  It means not settling for mediocrity or worse. 

Like I said...we have done this before with poor results, and you want to defend it?

In reality, part of the problem is the front office seems laughably incapable of scouting and drafting OLBs outside of Watt....been a problem for awhile now.  

 

7 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I don’t argue that we made the RIGHT choice, I argue that there is a completely reasonable reasoning for the Bud being here at the money the NFL designated the 5th year option

I dont agree he was anywhere close to the money he is earning...nothing about his stats or his play warrant it.

Your logic and apparently the FO's is...."We're probably going to struggle to find an immediate upgrade, so let's just settle on Dupree and worthless backups....again".

That's called complacency...and it doesnt work.

7 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

But we also needed a tight end, and that’s my problem with looking at this like it’s a simple solution. A 5th round pick isn’t the answer. Saying we shouldn’t have drafted a position of need, but instead should have drafted another position isn’t the answer. Had we cut Dupree and took OLB first in the first everyone would complain we didn’t fix ILB. 

The thing you seem to be missing is....this is the second year they ignored it.  They passed on OLB last year,  supposedly, because they liked Keion Adams.  This year, they completely ignore it again.  

And I never said they should've forced a high pick on one or spent huge money on a FA, but they should've tried something other than....umm....nothing.

I'm more comfortable about finding a decent number 2 TE after preseason cuts than finding a replacement for Dupree, or even capable depth at OLB.

[VigilantZombie]

Let me also say this. Budget Dupree is one of these guys that I'm simply never going to be on board with it doesn't really matter what happens unless he becomes the next JJ Watt overnight I'm never going to be pleased with where we took him and how his career has been developing now obviously the JJ Watt comment is an exaggeration but I think you all are smart enough to get my point. We can agree to disagree and I'm fine with that and how it was handled we can it also disagree on and I'm fine with that but this is just a guy I will never be on board with I will never be on board with the fact that we brought him back maybe it was the right decision for whatever reason but I will never agree with that that is just my mentality on this particular player moving forward

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

In reality, part of the problem is the front office seems laughably incapable of scouting and drafting OLBs outside of Watt....been a problem for awhile now.  

 

If Watt had a different last name I doubt they would have drafted him, JJ's reputation and being TJ's brother had a LOT to do with them picking TJ in RD1 and not missing. As of now, I will say that colbert isn't good at drafting OLB early, another reason I would prefer UFA for OLB. Draft what you are good at, then try UFA what you can't draft, sounds fair to me anyways

 

2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

I don't really care if we needed at tight end I don't see Zach Gentry as a guy who will ever be more than a number 3 tight end

I wasn't too concerned about TE. While it's important and such a mismatch when a great TE is on the team,  V-Mac should be good as long as he can stay healthy. Grimble will be the back up or #2 TE. I don't see the #2 or #3 getting much. It was too bad James left because he was good  but can you blame him?

 

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

Let me also say this. Budget Dupree is one of these guys that I'm simply never going to be on board with it doesn't really matter what happens unless he becomes the next JJ Watt overnight I'm never going to be pleased with where we took him and how his career has been developing now obviously the JJ Watt comment is an exaggeration but I think you all are smart enough to get my point.

I never understood why they drafted him , once again UFA or other draft prospects I would have preferred.  I saw a player slow off the snap that was raw, and that could take years to sort out if it ever does. No way you beat an NFL OT when you are slow off the snap unless he slips on the surface or smoother fluke - never will win or get pressure with consistency. As for the bold, I sometimes wonder about a few fans here not meeting up to your standard . Really , considering the importance of OLB, for some reason there are a few here that want to accept what the FO has done in recent years and of course as a result how lousy the D has been.  OLB has been a MAJOR reason for that.  Int he pats game, they went to a 4 man front a few times and Watt was key as well as Heyward, but dupree didn't make much noise. The rotation was in effect , that said something, but they settles on the 5th year option anyways

 

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

but I will never agree with that that is just my mentality on this particular player moving forward

If dupree breaks out, eat some crow all is good. I don't expect that though. If coaching was to blame (and it could very well have been) then I could see bud improving. If another offseason with chuck and our new coach works, then the improved play will result. Part of the problem of overpaying bud was that it takes away from signing others and his play was still unknown - but nowhere near the price they are paying him. To me, this looks more like colbert vision as hopeful breakout for dupree yet if dupree was on the market I doubt he would get more than $3M on a prove it deal (from overly optimistic team) , maybe only $2. 

I have been as much of a critic of his as anyone, but am still blaming the coaching for some of this. It's not how I was hoping that colbert would handle this but it's what I expected - complacent and trying to prove his RD1 pick was right at the expense of the team.  Thats what bothers me the most , especially since a dominant player was available in UFA for a bit more and that player (Houston) could be a mentor and teach Watt and thats invaluable but colbert doesn't put value on that. The D needs more leaders IMO (I think Baron could help), last year they were sitting around like at a campfire in the Ravens game when they were getting trashed. Right there that said it all.   Burns, dupree and others don't have leadership traits, and the combine doesn't offer a grade for that. 2 Bad RD1 signature colbert picks when his approach was to fix the D with his RD1 picks -> FAIL.  Liked the idea of moving up in the draft for a legit starter for Bush. Maybe they should do this for a few more years to make sure they get legit starters.  Being older, I can't stand watching this team when the D is not at least top10 legit. When they can't get off the field or get pressure or TO's, it's a slow death and I can't tolerate it. 

[MOSteelers56]

They didn't franchise tag Dupree. They just gave him his 5th year option. 

[MOSteelers56]

10 hours ago, 3rivers said:

He signed somewhere else, no need to go on about this. It doesn't matter if the other team had $100M or $20M in cap space, the steelers could have signed him based on what he got.  Plan B would have been "here's our best deal, let us know by a certain date, if not interested, it's been nice that you considered being a part of our organization"  - or something like that .

Maybe he would have signed here  as a preferred team to play for as well, nobody knows. Maybe he wouldn't sign here at all, remember the locker room last year... so this will never be known anyways, no need to keep threads about it

I see what you are saying about the timeframe - but that's what makes UFA a race against time and it's when teams need to know  what their plan is. 

Lets not get too animated over this, it's over, and the D should be much improved.  Overpaying existing players is a weakness that colbert has, but I am sure he isn't the only GM, but the the amount recently got in the way of signing Houston.    Considering how last season went in UFA, draft and BS, this year is already looking so much better, lets be thankful for that. I mean, how many here could handle another season comparable to last year? The sky isn't falling 

[Dcash4]

4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Seriously? How about...

1)  Dont franchise tag a mediocre OLB when he isn't even starting quality.

2)  Dont claim we are "comfortable"  passing on an OLB because we have a completely unproven late rounder on our roster.

3)  Dont completely ignore an obvious need when we have one starting quality player and no depth at all.

If these things aren't common sense to you, I dont know what to tell you.

1) Im going to make your morning! We did not Franchise Bud Dupree! The move we did in fact do makes far more sense than franchise tagging him. 

2) Who says they are passing because they are comfortable instead of passing on because they dont see anyone worth a damn? This has been my question to everyone with no answer... whats the right answer? Because I am not drafting for competition for the hell of it, i'm drafting because i think someone will be better in the role I am drafting in. So last year that list is? The FA list this year would be? Who should we have drafted instead this year?

3) So we should completely ignore ILB, RB, and TE in order to draft OLB? Because, they also fit that criteria. 

These things are common sense. But the league isnt that black and white and the reality of the NFL is that its made up almost entirely of players at or below Duprees level. So, me personally, I think its common sense to make sure you are fitting the criteria to UPGRADE the position, not just do things for the hell of it especially when we have other needs too. That, to me, is common sense. 

4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

I dont agree he was anywhere close to the money he is earning...nothing about his stats or his play warrant it.

He isn't. It's also not the reason they are paying him THAT money, something no one seems to understand or get past. 

4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Your logic and apparently the FO's is...."We're probably going to struggle to find an immediate upgrade, so let's just settle on Dupree and worthless backups....again".

Well, this isn't my logic, but thanks for playing. My logic is not to do something just for the sake of doing it. My logic isn't to throw draft picks at OLB prospects you don't like for the sake of doing it. My logic is not to throw stupid FA money at guys who don't deserve it. My logic is do not cut a known player for an all around worse player and then justify it by saying "at least Im doing something". 

Im not into change for the sake of "doing something". I want you to make the change thats right. To me, I haven't seen anything that alludes to their being a bright shiny door to improvement that we chose not to go through and no one has offered any sort of realistic value of players or draft picks to prove others wise -- and I am open to seeing it. Just show me the way instead of hiding behind "do anything" or "Justin Houston".

4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

The thing you seem to be missing is....this is the second year they ignored it.  They passed on OLB last year,  supposedly, because they liked Keion Adams.  This year, they completely ignore it again.  

And I never said they should've forced a high pick on one or spent huge money on a FA, but they should've tried something other than....umm....nothing.

Well, you say the bold....but it really doesn't seem like you mean it. Did you know they have drafted 4 OLBs since drafting Dupree? I mean, we did actually draft an OLB this year. We do have Ola who did look pretty good last year, but obviously (like all rookies) needs growth. 

This is where I get confused on what you actually want. So, they LIKED Adams. Rightly or wrongly....they liked him after year 1. We are mad at the RESULT, but then backtrack and blame the planning? Blaming them for doing nothing after the fact isn't quite fair. If we want to blame coaching or scouting -- or whatever you want to do, go right ahead you can check my past and see that I am in agreement. But thats a different conversation, thats not this conversation of planning and team building decisions. 

So its not that we have done "nothing" based on your statements, but you consider it "nothing" because it's not how you would handle it and you judge the planning by the end result. So, tell me, how would you have handled it? Because I honestly don't know how I would have handled it. I didn't see anyone in last years draft or this years draft that made me stand up and say "thats the guy!" to challenge and overtake OLB. Are you just more comfortable with the "meh, he's an OLB" pick? I see no FA this year that makes either financial or team building sense. The choices were over pay for the Smith brothers, break the bank for Flowers, try (but lose) on Houston or Barr, or take the scrap heap of the guys who wont make a difference -- but hey, they will be different! 

Im not happy with the Dupree situation, but I am also not mad at it. I live in the grey in all these situations because thats the reality of the NFL. The draft is difficult. Player evaluation is difficult. The players that hit FA are highly overpaid because they are the ones available on the market and are never worth their value to a new team/situation. So no, I do not accept that the answer is as simple as "do something" and thats why I defend this....not because I am defending Dupree...but because I understand the NFL player pool and understand that change for the sake of change is rarely the answer. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Dcash4

[3rivers]

why did they remove the emoticon that was like this

 

[MOSteelers56]

Irony

[Big Snack]

5 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Irony

My thoughts exactly lol