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MrOaktown_56

Raiders Offense Thread:

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 Not defending cable here, but Russ was sacked 51 times in 2018 and that was with a greater emphasis on the run game. Not sure what the metrics say, but he was sacked more than any season in his career with his third fewest attempts. Seattle was better in run blocking though after cable left.

With that said, Cable has been historically bad at coaching pass blocking and I don’t get it. As a former linemen and current coach, pass blocking technique and protection schemes are way easier to teach and grasp than run blocking. Does he just not make it enough of a focal point? How do you not see it as your weakness and try to alter your strategy?

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8 hours ago, raidr4life said:

So Conley, Jackson, Richard, Hudson, Lee, Harris, Vanderdoes, Ellis, Joseph, Washington, Morrow, Holton all are next I guess.

Not necessarily.  In situations like this it is only the high profile players.  Carr might be the only player that is safe if they start to look like really good players and I am not sure about him.  If Carr starts to ball and does not give credit to Gruden then expect us to draft a QB next year no matter what.  Conley , Jackson, and Joseph are hot seat players and I would not be surprised if any of the 3 are gone by the end of the year.  Comparing Cook, Mack , and Cooper to any of the others is ridiculous.  It is his ego so 2nd and 3rd stringers are not a threat to him.  He probably has a soft spot for those that are willing to pledge their allegiance to him and crap on RM.  I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory but it is just how people with narcissistic disorders  act.

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4 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

Pretty sure Gruden's scheme has never been TE centered. Cook had the best season ever for a TE in a Gruden offense last season. The previous best was 39 catches for 555 yards by Rickey Dudley in 1999. In Gruden's scheme, the TEs are blockers first. Cook isn't exactly the prototypical Gruden TE, so it's not surprising they chose to pay WRs instead of a receiving TE.

So we have a player that functioned at a very high level and you decide to go in another direction because it does not fit what you wanted to do.  So the only thing that worked is scrapped?  Why not have Cook as another weapon.  Cook looked like he was improving with Carr and we could have probably signed him for less then the Saints since FA typically give a discount when you make them a priority before FA starts.  We could have had Brown, Williams, Cook, and Jacobs as pass catchers and then add Ateman in the redzone and we have a pretty good set of recievers.  Now we have to hope Waller or Moreau can produce.  I hope I am wrong about a lot of this stuff but I just see some poor judgments being made because I believe Gruden wants his guys.  This is a better squad with Cook on it.  The only reason why I get rid of Cook is if I think, similar to taking the favorite blanket from a 3 year old, he is holding Carr back and stopping him from growing.  If Carr can grow and the benefit is greater than keeping Cook around then good move but I do not buy for a second that Gruden believes Waller is going to come out and have more than 900 yards and 6 TDs.

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18 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

We never made an offer to him.  Nothing anyone has come up with is close to a reason except it is RM's guy.  Just admit it.  I was excited when I heard Gruden was coming back until he started making decisions and I remembered all of his faults from when he was here the first time.

Why don't you just admit you're grasping at straws to look right on a forum even though you have no idea why.

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4 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

Why don't you just admit you're grasping at straws to look right on a forum even though you have no idea why.

Not grasping at straws.  I am having a discussion about my difference in opinion on personnel moves made by Jon Gruden.  I can generally let stuff go but I see Gruden as a narcissist and think his ego will get in the way of this team reaching its potential.  I do not know to which point you are saying I do not know why.  If it is the Cook situation that I do not know why then that could be said for every decision made by our team since none of us are in the room when decisions are made and therefore we could not discuss anything on this site besides results of decisions being good or bad. That would make this board pretty dull.  If you are referring to Gruden's narcissistic behavior then good luck proving me wrong there.  If you mean I do not know why I am arguing on a message board with nothing to gain then I have some psychological issues of my own and its is best to just ignore me.

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I think we need 2 Raiders discussion boards.  Those that are going to buy into everything the team does like a player who is getting paid should do and one for those that can see when the team is making good or bad decisions and would like to discuss them.  

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1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

So we have a player that functioned at a very high level and you decide to go in another direction because it does not fit what you wanted to do. 

Yes. Cook isn't good enough to alter the plan on offense. No TE on the current roster will come close to his 2018 production because that's not what the offense is about, it's about the WRs and RBs in the passing game. There's no reason to pay Cook when his role in this specific scheme isn't supposed to be big. He's probably worth his contract to the Saints but not to the Raiders.

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2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Not necessarily.  In situations like this it is only the high profile players.  Carr might be the only player that is safe if they start to look like really good players and I am not sure about him.  If Carr starts to ball and does not give credit to Gruden then expect us to draft a QB next year no matter what.  Conley , Jackson, and Joseph are hot seat players and I would not be surprised if any of the 3 are gone by the end of the year.  Comparing Cook, Mack , and Cooper to any of the others is ridiculous.  It is his ego so 2nd and 3rd stringers are not a threat to him.  He probably has a soft spot for those that are willing to pledge their allegiance to him and crap on RM.  I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory but it is just how people with narcissistic disorders  act.

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20 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

We never made an offer to him.  Nothing anyone has come up with is close to a reason except it is RM's guy.  Just admit it.  I was excited when I heard Gruden was coming back until he started making decisions and I remembered all of his faults from when he was here the first time.

All his faults from the first time? He built us a Superbowl team and I'm pretty sure everyone was pissed when Al traded him away, he then kicked our *** in the Superbowl

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30 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

All his faults from the first time? He built us a Superbowl team and I'm pretty sure everyone was pissed when Al traded him away, he then kicked our *** in the Superbowl

His inability to structure a team built to sustain success + Davis incompetence set us back for a decade.  I will not put it all on Gruden because he was fighting with one hand tied behind his back but he won with us by sacrificing the future and then won with an established team in Tampa and sacrificed their future also.  I am sure he has received crap for not winning with a team he built so he is hypersensitive to players not brought in because of his decisions.  He needed the attention to begin with but adding in the need to prove himself could easily create a toxic environment and cloud his judgement.  From what I have seen so far it already has lead to some decisions that where not optimal.

55 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Yes. Cook isn't good enough to alter the plan on offense. No TE on the current roster will come close to his 2018 production because that's not what the offense is about, it's about the WRs and RBs in the passing game. There's no reason to pay Cook when his role in this specific scheme isn't supposed to be big. He's probably worth his contract to the Saints but not to the Raiders.

So your saying Cook would not free up the other receivers and run game.  It is about reaching the tipping point and Cook gets us a lot closer to that.  We have the money and no one to spend it on.  Nobody we have will duplicate the production or attention.  If you have the chance to sign a player that makes everyone better by making their job easier the you spend the extra $5 million and sign them.  I am not a fan of AB but his value is increased with Cook clearing up the middle of the field.  I am not even a big Cook fan but I believe what he does plays right into what we brought Williams and AB in for.  Like I said early just make the easy decision and sign the man who will stop teams from loading the box and clear out your intermediate routes.  I definitely do not want to hear any one give the excuse that Carr needs another year because he did not have a TE (Not saying it will be you).

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Gruden did not set us back a decade. Al Davis with his terrible drafting and over priced contracts to average players like Javon Walker set us back a decade. 

Al Davis hadn’t had a good draft since the 80’s. Gruden bringing in his vets and innovative scheme at the time is what changed the organization for that short period. 

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1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

His inability to structure a team built to sustain success + Davis incompetence set us back for a decade.  I will not put it all on Gruden because he was fighting with one hand tied behind his back but he won with us by sacrificing the future and then won with an established team in Tampa and sacrificed their future also.  I am sure he has received crap for not winning with a team he built so he is hypersensitive to players not brought in because of his decisions.  He needed the attention to begin with but adding in the need to prove himself could easily create a toxic environment and cloud his judgement.  From what I have seen so far it already has lead to some decisions that where not optimal.

So your saying Cook would not free up the other receivers and run game.  It is about reaching the tipping point and Cook gets us a lot closer to that.  We have the money and no one to spend it on.  Nobody we have will duplicate the production or attention.  If you have the chance to sign a player that makes everyone better by making their job easier the you spend the extra $5 million and sign them.  I am not a fan of AB but his value is increased with Cook clearing up the middle of the field.  I am not even a big Cook fan but I believe what he does plays right into what we brought Williams and AB in for.  Like I said early just make the easy decision and sign the man who will stop teams from loading the box and clear out your intermediate routes.  I definitely do not want to hear any one give the excuse that Carr needs another year because he did not have a TE (Not saying it will be you).

They think highly of Waller i don't understand why you don't get that, what's to say he can't be effective in Gruden's offense, Cook was an underacheiver until Gruden he think Waller has the same tools and is younger and faster.

Edited by raidr4life

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35 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Gruden did not set us back a decade. Al Davis with his terrible drafting and over priced contracts to average players like Javon Walker set us back a decade. 

Al Davis hadn’t had a good draft since the 80’s. Gruden bringing in his vets and innovative scheme at the time is what changed the organization for that short period. 

I said Gruden and Davis.  Davis needing control caused a ton of problems but Gruden was not able to develop players and we drafted horrible the entire time he was here with the exception of the easiest choice we have had in decades.  Same thing in Tampa.  Gruden would be the greatest OC of all time, a good coach, but bad when having personnel control.  He will bring in a lot of vets to build a good team but the house of cards will eventually fall because he is not capable of restocking and developing talent.  He is to dependent on FA.  Another reason why I like Mayock and he can hopefully balance out Gruden but Gruden also needs to get rid of coaches like Cable.  He needs to hire guys that can develop young players so he does not have to deal with it.  I get that his system is to complicated for young players but it does not mean you can ignore them all together.

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14 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

They think highly of Waller i don't understand why you don't get that, what's to say he can't be effective in Gruden's offense, Cook was an underacheiver until Gruden he think Waller has the same tools and is younger and faster.

How would you feel if we did not draft Jacobs or resign Martin because the team felt good about Warren?  I am angry because they could have signed a TE that might have been our best player on offense last year that was close to a pro bowl level for belief in a guy with 18 total receptions in 3 years.  I do not like the move because there is added risk when there did not need to be.  Lee Smith has same amount of yards and more receptions, and TDs over the last 3 years than Waller.  Does that help with perspective.  Waller could be great but he has shown nothing outside of practice and the combine in 3 years that says we could ignore Cook.  Cook almost outplayed Waller, Wilson , and Lee combine over the last 3 years just in 2018.

Edited by drfrey13

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