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soulman

Kind Of A Damning Review Of Emanuel Hall

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14 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

We dont know that was supposed to be a straight post.  That is speculation without the play call. All I know is he set the DB up to outside making it look like a GO and then went to his inside creating seperation.    Depending on assignment it may have been a little too rounded and maybe he could have sold it a bit better with his head or arms, but he was OPEN.  He had to stay in seam more in any event because safety was coming  

QB underthrew the ball allowing DB to make a play.  His 'drifting' is adjusting to a poorly thrown ball that is behind his speed.   QB puts it out in front that is 6. QB allowed that break up.  If he's even he's leaving.  

 

If it looks like a post and quacks like a post it's a post.  It wasn't a curl, a slant, an out or a go route so.....?????  LOL  Kinda hard to see that route as anything but a poorly executed one.  JMHO

I see a ball being thrown to where he was not where he was supposed to be.  Had been where he was expected to be maybe the throw is different but you're right.  We don't know but it's my interpretation of what I saw.

Bottom line is the kid has his work cut out for him as far as being a guy whose more than a one trick pony deep threat and even then he needs to work on his drops among other things.

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You don't run every post the same way. Sometimes you run it skinny. Sometimes you come off the route. Without knowing the scheme or the playcall it's almost impossible to make that judgment. That's one of the reasons I dislike PFF - you have to infer the player's responsibility to come up with a "grade" based on film.

I know it's popular to hate on pure traits players but people have taken things in the opposite direction where they overvalue positional skills that are easy to coach. Let's see what happens when this guy works with NFL coaches. I'm not going to evaluate his route-running based on what he did in a weird college spread coached by a bunch of weirdos.

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Well this particular piece wasn't written by anyone from PFF and I find it interesting you guys can look at that clip having also been told about this kid's very limited routes and not see it for what it is.  A poorly run route that had he run it well would have prevented the DB from crossing his route to defend the pass.  I'm not a football WRs coach but I've watched a **** ton of football in my years and even I can see that.

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

I'm not going to evaluate his route-running based on what he did in a weird college spread coached by a bunch of weirdos.

LOL  YOU don't have to.  The scouts, HCs, and GMs from 32 NFL teams have already done it for you and found Hall wanting.  Wanting enough in both NFL receiving skills and attitude that no one would even spend a late 7th round pick on a kid who draftniks and gurus had rated as high as a 2nd round pick. So tell me why you guys find it so easy to deny what's been established as fact.  Every NFL team has rejected drafting him.

You're defending what can't be defended.  Why?  Because the Bears signed him?  Because you once had him on one of your mocks?  What would you be saying if instead of the Bears signing him GB, or Minny, or the Lions drafted him?  Would you still be so defensive?  Watch the clips.  His issues are out there for all to see.  If all you ever watch it highlight clips you'll never get a complete picture of any player.  It takes more than that.

So again, I'm not kicking him to the curb before he's given a chance.  All I'm doing is offering some counterpoint I read that may temper our expectations of what may or may not do now before he's gotten significant coaching by our staff.  And to claim his college coaches are just a bunch of weirdos has got to be the weakest of all defenses.  Yeah, the entire Mizzou staff knows less than you do about coaching.

It's fine to have opinions but there are times when you have to simply let facts be facts and not clutch at straws trying to explain them away.  There's more than enough of that happening in DC daily.  Hall was a UDFA for a reason, many reasons actually.  I'm not rooting against him I'm only being a realist about his chances of making the 2019 roster of a team with SB hopes and aspirations.  That's it.  Sorry if I'm not enough of a "homer" for some.

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We don't know that he wasn't drafted because of route running. There are plenty of equally raw players without his physical profile who were drafted.

It's more likely that teams passed on him because of concerns with his personality or attitude.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

You don't run every post the same way. Sometimes you run it skinny. Sometimes you come off the route. Without knowing the scheme or the playcall it's almost impossible to make that judgment. That's one of the reasons I dislike PFF - you have to infer the player's responsibility to come up with a "grade" based on film.

I know it's popular to hate on pure traits players but people have taken things in the opposite direction where they overvalue positional skills that are easy to coach. Let's see what happens when this guy works with NFL coaches. I'm not going to evaluate his route-running based on what he did in a weird college spread coached by a bunch of weirdos.

This.  Well first paragraph anyway.  It's often built in adjustment to safety to make it skinny instead of keep running straight into a safety. 

  Either way he went outside on purpose to make it look like a Go.   It was a good move.

 

Edited by dll2000

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23 hours ago, dll2000 said:

This review is crap.  I just watched him. This dude is constantly open.  Constantly. He would have had incredible stats if his QB wasn’t  constantly missing him or under throwing him.

He fell because apparently he is an a hole and his coaches hated him and told that to every NFL scout. 

I heard that he wouldn't really play unless he was 100 percent. Not sure I'll say he's soft but he might not know the distinction between hurt and injured. 

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2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

We don't know that he wasn't drafted because of route running. There are plenty of equally raw players without his physical profile who were drafted.

It's more likely that teams passed on him because of concerns with his personality or attitude.

He also had an injury.

My guess is it was 3 things that made him go undrafted.

1) Attitude or Behavior - this was all over the place before the draft.  It was common knowledge.  Guessing a lot of teams took him off their boards.  

2) Injury

3) Drops

Pure talent I stand by my assessment that this guy is a late 2nd to 3rd round pick all day and he could be a number 2 WR in this league in time given opportunity and if he doesn't screw it up.

Being an UDFA on a loaded team he may never get opportunity.  

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On 5/2/2019 at 11:37 AM, dll2000 said:

This guy is a top talent.  He is going to make things real interesting.  

He’s going to be everything desean Jackson ever wished he was 

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It’s a good thing his last name is Hall cause that’s exactly where he’s heading 

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4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

This.  Well first paragraph anyway.  It's often built in adjustment to safety to make it skinny instead of keep running straight into a safety. 

  Either way he went outside on purpose to make it look like a Go.   It was a good move.

 

Sorry bro, I know you've coached and all that but no matter how you slice it the route was run poorly.

Even on a skinny post your break from the stem would be sharper and quicker not lazily rounded off as that one was and your path would not regress back toward the sidelines.  If he ran it correctly the ball should have been delivered up field and to right of where it was.  Was it a bad throw our did his route force Lock to adapt his throw to where Hall actually was not where he should have been?  The kid simply lacks precision and to play in this offense I believe he's gonna need more of it.  JMHO

We should compare Ridley running that same route to Hall.  If vids of that were overlapped everyone would see the difference.

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4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

He also had an injury.

My guess is it was 3 things that made him go undrafted.

1) Attitude or Behavior - this was all over the place before the draft.  It was common knowledge.  Guessing a lot of teams took him off their boards.  

2) Injury

3) Drops

Pure talent I stand by my assessment that this guy is a late 2nd to 3rd round pick all day and he could be a number 2 WR in this league in time given opportunity and if he doesn't screw it up.

Being an UDFA on a loaded team he may never get opportunity.  

That part I don't dispute.  The kid is an F16 on after burner.  He can fly.

I also don't dispute what prevented him from being drafted at all.  He's needs coaching but will he accept it?

Unlike college in the NFL a team can't chew up cap and roster space on "experiments".  There's a huge difference between a kid with coachable upside and one who believes he's an ace day one and who likes doing things his way.

There's a name for that type.....unemployed.

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2 hours ago, soulman said:

That part I don't dispute.  The kid is an F16 on after burner.  He can fly.

I also don't dispute what prevented him from being drafted at all.  He's needs coaching but will he accept it?

Unlike college in the NFL a team can't chew up cap and roster space on "experiments".  There's a huge difference between a kid with coachable upside and one who believes he's an ace day one and who likes doing things his way.

There's a name for that type.....unemployed.

I’ve said all along he’s a long shot.  I’m just impressed with his talent. 

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15 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I’ve said all along he’s a long shot.  I’m just impressed with his talent. 

FWIW I think we're all impressed by his measurable and possibilities but at least in my case less with his NFL level skills running proper routes and with his hands and his ability to track and adjust to deeps balls.  Guys like him can be real "heartbreakers" who can get open deep but fail to make the catch.

Seemingly we have four guy competing for two of six roster spots; Wims, Ridley, M Hall, and E Hall.  As it stands today I gotta give the advantage to Wims and Ridley (who also played ST at UGA) over the "we aren't brothers" Halls.  Of course that could change I just thought I'd add some balance to our expectations of a guy who seems to good to be true coming in as an UDFA.  There were reasons for that and I was just highlighting them is all.

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19 hours ago, soulman said:

Sorry bro, I know you've coached and all that but no matter how you slice it the route was run poorly.

Even on a skinny post your break from the stem would be sharper and quicker not lazily rounded off as that one was and your path would not regress back toward the sidelines.  If he ran it correctly the ball should have been delivered up field and to right of where it was.  Was it a bad throw our did his route force Lock to adapt his throw to where Hall actually was not where he should have been?  The kid simply lacks precision and to play in this offense I believe he's gonna need more of it.  JMHO

We should compare Ridley running that same route to Hall.  If vids of that were overlapped everyone would see the difference.

I refrained from commenting because I dont want to overly argue a largely irrelevant point. I need to see it from a wider view and see other routes in combo to have a better guess and what he was supposed to do.  You could be right, but it doesnt look like it from that GIF.  The drift you keep bringing up, again, looked from that shot to be an adjustment to a thrown football.  Not something he did before the throw. 

He was selling a go and went back inside and upfield.  Normally, yes, you want sharp cuts out of breaks, but a safety was coming hard opposite. If he cut to post he have put him in play.  He chose, correctly IMO, to use his speed to split them and continue upfield.  He was open.  It should have been 6.  The QB under threw him. 

Every player from 6th round on is a long shot on every team. I am not trying to over hype guys.  Just talking about their talents and weaknesses.  

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I refrained from commenting because I dont want to overly argue a largely irrelevant point. I need to see it from a wider view and see other routes in combo to have a better guess and what he was supposed to do.  You could be right, but it doesnt look like it from that GIF.  The drift you keep bringing up, again, looked from that shot to be an adjustment to a thrown football.  Not something he did before the throw. 

He was selling a go and went back inside and upfield.  Normally, yes, you want sharp cuts out of breaks, but a safety was coming hard opposite. If he cut to post he have put him in play.  He chose, correctly IMO, to use his speed to split them and continue upfield.  He was open.  It should have been 6.  The QB under threw him. 

Every player from 6th round on is a long shot on every team. I am not trying to over hype guys.  Just talking about their talents and weaknesses.  

I believe the throw went to where he was not to where should have been which may have been why it was cozied in and under thrown.  If he takes his route up field to the post he opens more ground on the CB and even the FS would be in trail based on where he finally appears.  We'd need an "All 22" shot to be more certain of the big picture but even if he planned a double move he really didn't execute it well.

I dunno.  Maybe he's combining routes so it's post and go but from my perspective he runs "lazy" routes.  If I posted some of the GIFs of Ridley that have been put up we could all see the difference.  Ridley can often get more separation with far less speed simply because his initial moves are so precise and deceptive the CB can't predict his actual route.

On one he gets his cover completely turned around with a double move that breaks on a pure 45 for the post and he's wide open for 6.  If Hall can learn how to that with his speed he could be scary good but right now he doesn't have it in his tool box.  Nagy is all about precision and they practice throwing to where the receiver should break open because at times the ball is coming out before the route is clear.  If Mitch has to keep adjusting to where the receiver is as opposed to where he should be all kinds of bad things can happen.

I guess it's just how I analyze stuff like this based on personal  experience. 

When I played baseball and fastpitch I was primarily a catcher.  Early on I always told both the SS and 2nd base that when I made my throws to 2nd on a steal attempt I threw for a 2' box right above the right half of the bag and that's where they needed to be or the throw would end up in CF.  I didn't have a gun for an arm but I had a very quick release and as long as I stayed focused on my target I was 90% plus accurate.  But if I had to adapt to hitting them on the run because they got lazy and were late in covering the bag my release and accuracy would suffer.  All it took was a couple of throws skipping into CF for them to get my point and correct the problem at their end and for far fewer runners to even try to steal on me.

So maybe that's why I'm kind of anal about precision on pass routes to improve QB accuracy.  The more thinking he has to do or constantly adjust to a poorly timed or executed route the more his accuracy will suffer and he'll get blamed for that far more often than a receiver will.

Edited by soulman

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