OTA's/Minicamp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 minutes ago, N4L said:

Maybe ill be able to see it better once he has pads on, but Pettis doesn't look much bigger than he did last year, which is what we have been hearing for the last few weeks. 

I don't think anyone ever said he looks much bigger. Believe he said he gained like nine pounds in the offseason. 

[757-NINER]

Yea I really don't think he needed to bulk up. I'd be afriad of him losing some of his fluidity. I really thought he just needed to get his base stronger and get stronger in general, to better combat press coverage from more physical CBs.

[757-NINER]

On 7/18/2019 at 3:14 PM, J-ALL-DAY said:

We're getting that Chicago level of love that they got last offseason. 

But this team has more question marks. 

Meh, I would say health is our biggest question mark. Bears had more unprovens....QB, HC, defense, offense. Most around the league know what Kyle & Jimmy G are capable of. Couldnt say the same for Nagy & Trubs. If we can stay healthy, I think that most in the league know that this is a playoff team. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

Meh, I would say health is our biggest question mark. Bears had more unprovens....QB, HC, defense, offense. Most around the league know what Kyle & Jimmy G are capable of. Couldnt say the same for Nagy & Trubs. If we can stay healthy, I think that most in the league know that this is a playoff team. 

Bears had an elite front 7, very good OL, solid weapons and very good secondary heading into the season. 

We definitely have more question marks. Our interior OL is suspect, secondary has question marks and our LB is far from a given. 

So no, I don't agree with Chicago having more question marks….Now, this is coming from someone who was on the Chicago train earlier than most. 

Our offense certainly has more potential but Jimmy G has to stay healthy. Still, I'm thinking 10 or so wins for us next season. 

[N4L]

6 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

Yea I really don't think he needed to bulk up. I'd be afriad of him losing some of his fluidity. I really thought he just needed to get his base stronger and get stronger in general, to better combat press coverage from more physical CBs.

He needs to fill out his frame if he ever wants to be a durable player. Right now he is too small to sustain the long NFL season and a deep playoff push. One of the main knocks on him in the draft was that people thought he was too thin. That is concerning when you couple it with the fact he was banged up basically for the entire season last year. 

We are talking 22 weeks of football if you make it to February. Right now his body isnt built for that. He needs to fill out his frame, but do it in the right way, obviously. Otherwise he wont ever play a full 16. 9 pounds is nothing to sneeze at, I just cant really see the difference in that video. 

I LOVE the route running and I really liked the strong hands he flashed at times. I like his length and his feel for space, he definitely knows how to get open. Some extra weight would help him run block on the outside too, which is very important in the outside zone scheme. 

 

I really like how our weapons all can do everything but simultaneously all have their own skill set and things they bring to the table. 

 

... if only we had added a goddamn FS this offseason. I wonder if we put in a supplemental draft bid in for that FS the cardinals snagged for a 5th. Correct me if I am wrong but the comp draft is a closed bid auction where the tiebreaker is this past draft's order. that means if we put in a 5th and the cardinals put in a 5th then they get the player. This is the only bad part of beating the seahawks late in the year I can think of, but we probably didnt put in a bid lol 

[y2lamanaki]

7 hours ago, N4L said:

He needs to fill out his frame if he ever wants to be a durable player. Right now he is too small to sustain the long NFL season and a deep playoff push. One of the main knocks on him in the draft was that people thought he was too thin. That is concerning when you couple it with the fact he was banged up basically for the entire season last year. 

We are talking 22 weeks of football if you make it to February. Right now his body isnt built for that. He needs to fill out his frame, but do it in the right way, obviously. Otherwise he wont ever play a full 16. 9 pounds is nothing to sneeze at, I just cant really see the difference in that video. 

I LOVE the route running and I really liked the strong hands he flashed at times. I like his length and his feel for space, he definitely knows how to get open. Some extra weight would help him run block on the outside too, which is very important in the outside zone scheme. 

 

I really like how our weapons all can do everything but simultaneously all have their own skill set and things they bring to the table. 

 

... if only we had added a goddamn FS this offseason. I wonder if we put in a supplemental draft bid in for that FS the cardinals snagged for a 5th. Correct me if I am wrong but the comp draft is a closed bid auction where the tiebreaker is this past draft's order. that means if we put in a 5th and the cardinals put in a 5th then they get the player. This is the only bad part of beating the seahawks late in the year I can think of, but we probably didnt put in a bid lol 

Mostly right. There are basically three tiers based on previous year's results - those under six wins (I think it's six), any other non-playoff team, and playoff teams, and within those tiers, the order is randomly generated. There's a chance we could have been before the Cardinals in the order. But based on everything we know from this offseason, I would guess it unlikely we attempted to pick up an available safety. 

[757-NINER]

11 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Bears had an elite front 7, very good OL, solid weapons and very good secondary heading into the season. 

We definitely have more question marks. Our interior OL is suspect, secondary has question marks and our LB is far from a given. 

So no, I don't agree with Chicago having more question marks….Now, this is coming from someone who was on the Chicago train earlier than most. 

Our offense certainly has more potential but Jimmy G has to stay healthy. Still, I'm thinking 10 or so wins for us next season. 

The bolded sounds much more plausible to me. I saw no one was calling the Bears front seven elite before last season. Im good friends with a slew of Bear fans. One in particular is a very good friend, who we watch games together nearly every Sunday and breakdown coaches film during the season. So I watch pretty much all of their games. None of them shared your same optimism. Nor did see any of the pundits singing their praises though, I could be wrong in that regard.

Accquiring Mack absolutely help solidify their front but nothing was elite about them other than Hicks before he came along. Ther were starting a rookie Mike and a guy beside him who has never stayed healthy his entire career in Trevathan. And on the edge they had Floyd who had moments but wasn't consistent. There was potential on paper to be pretty good....much like us this year. Swap out Hicks for DeFo. Ford is no Mack but he's a legitimate edge presence. Bosa is a better prospect and more highly regarded than Smith as a rookie. Alexander I'd give a slight edge to over Trevathan. Warner seems destined for a solid second year...seems to be on a similar trajectory to me.

Their O-Line was just as unproven as ours if we're being honest. And their WRs were a big question mark heading into the season, with Robinson coming off a ACL and basically acquiring most of their peices like Burton & Gabriel that off-season. There was optimism they would be better. Their secondary in particular showed alot of promise and ball-hawking ability. But they were not some hot pick as a potential playoff team.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/0ap3000000949705/Expert-record-predictions-for-the-Bears-in-2018

[J-ALL-DAY]

44 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

The bolded sounds much more plausible to me. I saw no one was calling the Bears front seven elite before last season. Im good friends with a slew of Bear fans. One in particular is a very good friend, who we watch games together nearly every Sunday and breakdown coaches film during the season. So I watch pretty much all of their games. None of them shared your same optimism. Nor did see any of the pundits singing their praises though, I could be wrong in that regard.

Accquiring Mack absolutely help solidify their front but nothing was elite about them other than Hicks before he came along. Ther were starting a rookie Mike and a guy beside him who has never stayed healthy his entire career in Trevathan. And on the edge they had Floyd who had moments but wasn't consistent. There was potential on paper to be pretty good....much like us this year. Swap out Hicks for DeFo. Ford is no Mack but he's a legitimate edge presence. Bosa is a better prospect and more highly regarded than Smith as a rookie. Alexander I'd give a slight edge to over Trevathan. Warner seems destined for a solid second year...seems to be on a similar trajectory to me.

Their O-Line was just as unproven as ours if we're being honest. And their WRs were a big question mark heading into the season, with Robinson coming off a ACL and basically acquiring most of their peices like Burton & Gabriel that off-season. There was optimism they would be better. Their secondary in particular showed alot of promise and ball-hawking ability. But they were not some hot pick as a potential playoff team.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/0ap3000000949705/Expert-record-predictions-for-the-Bears-in-2018

I think @Forge can attest to how high I was on the Bears…. Even before the addition of Mack. 

Our DL is going to be very good, that goes without saying. However, no way would I take Alexander over Trevathon. Alexander is far too inconsistent and flawed to be ahead of Trevathon. And I was super high on Smith like most and you have to give him the edge over Warner. But their secondary had already flashed the season prior and took it to another level last season. Our secondary is the complete opposite. 

Offensively the question marks for us have to do with Jimmy G being unproven and simply unable to stay healthy. If he is healthy and the real deal, then we will be very good on that side of the ball. But again, that is still a huge question mark. 

Going in to last year, I was VERY confident the Bears defense was going to be elite after the addition of Mack, but I can't say the same for our offense or defense. The potential is there but some things have to check out for that to happen. Hence, my statement of the Bears having less question marks going into the season than us. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I think @Forge can attest to how high I was on the Bears…. Even before the addition of Mack. 

 

Can confirm. Do remember this. 

[burlow]

It would have been easy of us to be high on the Bears defense lead by non other than our favorite coach (who is not on our roster) in Big Vic Slamdefensedownyathroatango.

[Forge]

2017-18	CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	TD	INT	RATE	Y/ATT	ANY/A
Jimmy Garoppolo	173	267	64.8%	2278	12	8	94.1	8.5	7.0
Nick Mullens	176	274	64.2%	2277	13	10	90.8	8.3	6.7

 

Careers with the 49ers.

How about CJ? 

225 / 393 (57.3%), 2682 yards, 12:13 TD:INT, 74.6 rating, 6.8 y/a, 4.74 ANY/A. 

Are we really expected to believe that it's an open competition between Mullens and CJ for that backup spot? Really? 

[J-ALL-DAY]

59 minutes ago, Forge said:

2017-18	CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	TD	INT	RATE	Y/ATT	ANY/A
Jimmy Garoppolo	173	267	64.8%	2278	12	8	94.1	8.5	7.0
Nick Mullens	176	274	64.2%	2277	13	10	90.8	8.3	6.7

 

Careers with the 49ers.

How about CJ? 

225 / 393 (57.3%), 2682 yards, 12:13 TD:INT, 74.6 rating, 6.8 y/a, 4.74 ANY/A. 

Are we really expected to believe that it's an open competition between Mullens and CJ for that backup spot? Really? 

Shanahan drafted Beathard and obviously wants him to do good...So yes, there will be one. But not sure how there is any way Beathard could legitimately beat him out for the back up spot.

Saying that, Mullens numbers look better than his actual play. Put up quite a bit of garbage time stats against both the Seahawks/Rams and had an insane amount of YAC in his starts. Now, Shanahan's system results in a lot of YAC with the way he is able to scheme guys open, but think there was a stat out that Mullens took that to even another level during his starts. 

[Forge]

9 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Shanahan drafted Beathard and obviously wants him to do good...So yes, there will be one. But not sure how there is any way Beathard could legitimately beat him out for the back up spot.

Saying that, Mullens numbers look better than his actual play. Put up quite a bit of garbage time stats against both the Seahawks/Rams and had an insane amount of YAC in his starts. Now, Shanahan's system results in a lot of YAC with the way he is able to scheme guys open, but think there was a stat out that Mullens took that to even another level during his starts. 

Oh for sure, though beathard's play look's exactly like you'd think it would base on the numbers LOL. 

And yes, Mullens threw to more wide open receivers (more than a yard of separation) than anyone else in football outside of Osweiler. That being said, the person who threw to wide open receivers the third most was Patrick Mahomes, so I'm not really sure what to do with that statistic for the most part. 

FWIW, his garbage time stats aren't as bad as you would think. But given the quality of team, eh.  

Split	Value	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	1D	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	1D
Quarter	1st Qtr	38	61	23	62.30	417	1	22	3	67.5	3		6.8	4.95	1	0	.0	0	0
	2nd Qtr	50	77	27	64.94	691	6	33	1	114.2	5		9.0	9.95	2	-2	-1.0	0	0
	3rd Qtr	37	54	17	68.52	489	3	23	0	115.4	4		9.1	10.17	4	-2	-0.5	0	1
	4th Qtr	51	82	31	62.20	680	3	29	6	70.2	5		8.3	5.73	12	-12	-1.0	0	0
	1st Half	88	138	50	63.77	1108	7	55	4	93.5	8		8.0	7.74	3	-2	-0.7	0	0
	2nd Half	88	136	48	64.71	1169	6	52	6	88.1	9		8.6	7.49	16	-14	-0.9	0	1

 

Score Differential	Leading	55	84	29	65.48	792	6	35	2	109.8	3		9.4	9.79	11	-12	-1.1	0	1
	Tied	34	54	20	62.96	308	0	17	1	70.6	5		5.7	4.87	2	-2	-1.0	0	0
	Trailing	87	136	49	63.97	1177	7	55	7	87.2	9		8.7	7.37	6	-2	-0.3	0	0

I mean, that's not really awful if you think about it. Sure, he picked up most of his stats when trailing, but it's roughly equal to what he did when the team was ahead / tied. Given how bad the team was last year, I won't hold that against him too much. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

21 minutes ago, Forge said:

Oh for sure, though beathard's play look's exactly like you'd think it would base on the numbers LOL. 

And yes, Mullens threw to more wide open receivers (more than a yard of separation) than anyone else in football outside of Osweiler. That being said, the person who threw to wide open receivers the third most was Patrick Mahomes, so I'm not really sure what to do with that statistic for the most part. 

FWIW, his garbage time stats aren't as bad as you would think. But given the quality of team, eh.  

Split	Value	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	1D	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	1D
Quarter	1st Qtr	38	61	23	62.30	417	1	22	3	67.5	3		6.8	4.95	1	0	.0	0	0
	2nd Qtr	50	77	27	64.94	691	6	33	1	114.2	5		9.0	9.95	2	-2	-1.0	0	0
	3rd Qtr	37	54	17	68.52	489	3	23	0	115.4	4		9.1	10.17	4	-2	-0.5	0	1
	4th Qtr	51	82	31	62.20	680	3	29	6	70.2	5		8.3	5.73	12	-12	-1.0	0	0
	1st Half	88	138	50	63.77	1108	7	55	4	93.5	8		8.0	7.74	3	-2	-0.7	0	0
	2nd Half	88	136	48	64.71	1169	6	52	6	88.1	9		8.6	7.49	16	-14	-0.9	0	1

 

Score Differential	Leading	55	84	29	65.48	792	6	35	2	109.8	3		9.4	9.79	11	-12	-1.1	0	1
	Tied	34	54	20	62.96	308	0	17	1	70.6	5		5.7	4.87	2	-2	-1.0	0	0
	Trailing	87	136	49	63.97	1177	7	55	7	87.2	9		8.7	7.37	6	-2	-0.3	0	0

I mean, that's not really awful if you think about it. Sure, he picked up most of his stats when trailing, but it's roughly equal to what he did when the team was ahead / tied. Given how bad the team was last year, I won't hold that against him too much. 

Sure, but against the Seahawks check out how many yards he picked up AFTER being down 27-3 and he threw both TDs to Pettis after that big deficit. 

Against the Rams? All three TDs thrown after being down 28-3. Before that? I believe he threw three INTs. 

So to recap, his stats in both games at one point or another were 0 TDs 5 INTs with the combined score being 55-6. After that? 5 TDs and 0 INTs. Now, some of those TDs could have been in the 2nd or 3rd quarter, but I pretty much consider those garbage time stats.

Granted, to be fair, that is what Jimmy G did vs KC as well. So that isn't to say Mullens is the only QB that picks up garbage time starts, because for the most part all of them do. That's fine, but for Mullens' limited sample size, that really skewed his stats. 

Saying that, he is pretty much all you can ask for as an backup QB. If Jimmy G was to miss four games, you would trust him to play decent enough to keep the team afloat during that stretch. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by J-ALL-DAY

[J-ALL-DAY]

So reading Barrows player by player breakdown, he says this about Buckner:

Quote

DeForest Buckner: Can Buckner improve upon last year’s 12-sack season? Here’s why he should: With Ford and Justin Houston demanding attention at the edges last year, Chiefs interior rusher Chris Jones had 15.5 sacks. The 49ers’ edges should be at least as good this season as Kansas City’s were last year, with Ford and Nick Bosa, and Buckner is a better player than Jones.

Is he though? Like I love Buckner, but I don't think it is that cut and dry to say he is better than Jones. Buckner definitely wasn't better last season. Both are on similar level talent wise I would say.