OTA's/Minicamp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

[Forge]

16 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

I think Thomas - playing in his correct position, and a year removed from the tragedy with his sister- is really going to surprise people this year. He'll never be #3 overall good, but he can be a good player on the inside, and especially on this line.

Make or break year for him with us, I would think. Really sucks that he has to have that kind of pressure on him this year. Hopefully he rises to the challenge. He doesn't need to be fantastically awesome; I think he's just going to be a rotational player, after all, but he absolutely has to make it that I feel more comfortable having him out there than I do Sheldon Day.

[NcFinest9erFan]

 

 

[Forge]

12 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

 

 

Just throwing everyone in the secondary everywhere lol. The versatility is undoubtedly nice, but I worry about guys progressing by bouncing around. 

[49erurtaza]

 

[757-NINER]

55 minutes ago, Forge said:

Just throwing everyone in the secondary everywhere lol. The versatility is undoubtedly nice, but I worry about guys progressing by bouncing around. 

When I saw Moore in college, my first thought was he looks and plays like a CB. I wasn't too impressed with him as a safety but I remember reading somewhere when we drafted him that he preferred playing safety over CB. Saying he excelled as a FS in college is hyperbole at its finest. It can't hurt to give him some extended looks@FS in OTAs/mini-camp but they should have a firm understanding of where he fits and how he needs to progress by now. Nothing wrong with seeing which guys provide versatility because injuries are a part of the game so you never know when you my have to shift a guy somehwere he doesn't necessarily play all the time. But if this is their so-called back-up plan to Colbert, we're in a world of trouble.

Edited May 29, 2019 by 757-NINER

[y2lamanaki]

28 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

When I saw Moore in college, my first thought was he looks and plays like a CB. I wasn't too impressed with him as a safety but I remember reading somewhere when we drafted him that he preferred playing safety over CB. Saying he excelled as a FS in college is hyperbole at its finest. It can't hurt to give him some extended looks@FS in OTAs/mini-camp but they should have a firm understanding of where he fits and how he needs to progress by now. Nothing wrong with seeing which guys provide versatility because injuries are a part of the game so you never know when you my have to shift a guy somehwere he doesn't necessarily play all the time. But if this is their so-called back-up plan to Colbert, we're in a world of trouble.

Eh, I think Moore is a better FS than a CB. Would prefer he'd stay there, but I see him being the new Jimmie Ward (just hopefully without the brittle bones).

[757-NINER]

His tape in college was very 'meh' IMO. I didn't see anything that made me think he could be a safety at the next level but at this point, it can't be any worst than them trotting Reed back out there in TC, out of position once again. We shall see...

[John232]

Yeah, I disagree on Moore's tape too. I think his tape graded out to exactly where he went in the draft. At least what I watched after the fact. I think he has tackling issues that may rear its head similar to colbert. All in..no wrapping up.

 

It's also worth noting that there's a philosophical approach that John Lynch has repeated multiple times:.He wants his safeties to have experience at corner before the transition. He talks about it with his own development as a coverage player (which John was really solid at btw) but if you look at the pantheon of great safeties a good portion of them started out as corners. So I don't think it's as inherently flawed or bad as people make it out be. Moving Moore to safety might have been the plan from day 1. 

[N4L]

4 minutes ago, John232 said:

Moving Moore to safety might have been the plan from day 1. 

No, its revisionist history at best, and a flat out lie at worst. He was drafted to be a corner, but due to our complete disregard for the position, we had to move him back to FS.

[John232]

4 minutes ago, N4L said:

No, its revisionist history at best, and a flat out lie at worst. He was drafted to be a corner, but due to our complete disregard for the position, we had to move him back to FS.

No, it's revisionist to say he was drafted exclusively to play corner. They said in his post draft presser that they want to try to convert him but they know they have a good safety anyways. Pair in Lynch's comments and philosophy on developing safeties, and this move isn't all that surprising. People have been speculating about this for a while. 

[757-NINER]

40 minutes ago, John232 said:

No, it's revisionist to say he was drafted exclusively to play corner. They said in his post draft presser that they want to try to convert him but they know they have a good safety anyways. Pair in Lynch's comments and philosophy on developing safeties, and this move isn't all that surprising. People have been speculating about this for a while. 

Who? Where? Not calling you out, but I haven't heard one word about moving Moore back to safety since he's been a Niner. 

This move just seems very much reactive. Ward goes down, move Moore to FS, sign another CB to take Moore's spot on the CB depth chart. If this was the plan, Moore should have been@FS from the beginning of the off-season. Another CB should have been targeted either in free agency or the draft. We wouldn't have waited to sign a fringe roster player who was on the brink of being out of football, days after Ward was lost for the entire offseason and probably the start of TC. Aside from him being listed as a 'DB' on the roster, I can't see how this move for Moore was forshadowed. If Ward isn't hurt, he's still@CB taking every possible rep there he can....I firmly believe this.

[oldman9er]

2 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

Eh, I think Moore is a better FS than a CB. Would prefer he'd stay there, but I see him being the new Jimmie Ward (just hopefully without the brittle bones).

Yes yes, it is what I wanted, and hope it sticks. A nice, healthy stick.  

[John232]

1 hour ago, 757-NINER said:

Who? Where? Not calling you out, but I haven't heard one word about moving Moore back to safety since he's been a Niner. 

This move just seems very much reactive. Ward goes down, move Moore to FS, sign another CB to take Moore's spot on the CB depth chart. If this was the plan, Moore should have been@FS from the beginning of the off-season. Another CB should have been targeted either in free agency or the draft. We wouldn't have waited to sign a fringe roster player who was on the brink of being out of football, days after Ward was lost for the entire offseason and probably the start of TC. Aside from him being listed as a 'DB' on the roster, I can't see how this move for Moore was forshadowed. If Ward isn't hurt, he's still@CB taking every possible rep there he can....I firmly believe this.

Sorry, i should have been more clear, I remember multiple people on HERE (we're incredibly credible) speculating that Moore was going to be moved back. 

It's also only your opinion that he should have stayed at one spot. Philosophically speaking, cross training players has been done very a very, very long time and having someone go from Corner to safety is probably one of the safer transitions you can makes..especially when said player already played safety (and played it well enough in college) not to mention similar responsibilities (albeit more space and no boundary for a single high..but it's not like we're moving a hard press-man only corner). 

 

And it was foreshadowed literally when they were asked about Lynch and Shanny post draft. The same time they revealed him moving to corner, they mentioned that they already liked him a lot as a safety but wanted to see him at corner. And given they did the same exact thing with DJ Reed, they have no qualms about moving secondary players back in forth if they like their versatile skill-set. (interesting caveat to Moore moving to FS is they seem to have settled on Reed sticking at corner? which is nice). I personally, don't care for moving players around a ton, but moving players around who already have experience and if their is scheme consistency (which we have) then it's even less of a problem. I also think we have a lot of depth in the same range at corner so I don't really care about adding Dontae Johnson, I think it doesn't impact our depth chart in the grand scheme. Williams, Reed, Verrett, Sherman, Akhello, Moore and Ward can play corner (and Ward can spot there) add in the PFF man crush in Tim Harris, having Harris or Johnson round out the bottom slot is fine. 

Also , your belief really doesn't mater because we have no way of knowing this. Reed was a third safety last year, has he filled in OTA's? (serious question, posting from phone). If Reed stuck at corner, then It would say quite literally the opposite because Reed actually played safety last year. 

 

I just get tired of the alarmist BS that happens with a pretty generic move that constantly happens with this fan base.  I don't really like John Lynch, but fans go out of their way to be snarky and **** on every move before the results yield anything. Instead of people enjoying that a player did well, they fixate more on how it was idiotic it wasn't done in the first place. Whose to say that IF Moore turns out to be the answer, that him playing corner for a year didn't contribute positively? This is a good report. But people immediately use it to **** on this team. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by John232

[NcFinest9erFan]

 

[757-NINER]

59 minutes ago, John232 said:

Sorry, i should have been more clear, I remember multiple people on HERE (we're incredibly credible) speculating that Moore was going to be moved back. 

It's also only your opinion that he should have stayed at one spot. Philosophically speaking, cross training players has been done very a very, very long time and having someone go from Corner to safety is probably one of the safer transitions you can makes..especially when said player already played safety (and played it well enough in college) not to mention similar responsibilities (albeit more space and no boundary for a single high..but it's not like we're moving a hard press-man only corner). 

 

And it was foreshadowed literally when they were asked about Lynch and Shanny post draft. The same time they revealed him moving to corner, they mentioned that they already liked him a lot as a safety but wanted to see him at corner. And given they did the same exact thing with DJ Reed, they have no qualms about moving secondary players back in forth if they like their versatile skill-set. (interesting caveat to Moore moving to FS is they seem to have settled on Reed sticking at corner? which is nice). I personally, don't care for moving players around a ton, but moving players around who already have experience and if their is scheme consistency (which we have) then it's even less of a problem. I also think we have a lot of depth in the same range at corner so I don't really care about adding Dontae Johnson, I think it doesn't impact our depth chart in the grand scheme. Williams, Reed, Verrett, Sherman, Akhello, Moore and Ward can play corner (and Ward can spot there) add in the PFF man crush in Tim Harris, having Harris or Johnson round out the bottom slot is fine. 

Also , your belief really doesn't mater because we have no way of knowing this. Reed was a third safety last year, has he filled in OTA's? (serious question, posting from phone). If Reed stuck at corner, then It would say quite literally the opposite because Reed actually played safety last year. 

 

I just get tired of the alarmist BS that happens with a pretty generic move that constantly happens with this fan base.  I don't really like John Lynch, but fans go out of their way to be snarky and **** on every move before the results yield anything. Instead of people enjoying that a player did well, they fixate more on how it was idiotic it wasn't done in the first place. Whose to say that IF Moore turns out to be the answer, that him playing corner for a year didn't contribute positively? This is a good report. But people immediately use it to **** on this team. 

I have no issues cross-training players. Like I said, its a given in certain respects. But I feel young players who are already raw and/or are still learning and developing, need to stick to one position, hone their skills, and then can start to be moved around for scheme versatility. Flipping-flopping young players can stunt development, more times than not. What worked for Lynch as a player nearly 2 decades ago should not be the litmus test for all DBs he acquires but I digress...

When Moore was drafted, Lynch made a off-hand comment about knowing Moore could play safety but it was our DB coach at the time who liked Moore as a CB(and so did I frankly) and convinced them to draft him as a CB. Now if Woods prefers moving Moore back to FS because he thinks it benefits Moore as a player and the scheme, Im all for it. But again, if this was the plan, why not hit the ground running from jump?

Reed is on the shelf until TC. You were already down one 'cross-trained' DB. So why wasn't Moore playing safety last week if this was the plan? It wasn't until Ward went down that the sudden urge to have Moore move to FS emerges. There's nothing alarmist about questioning the roster management of this regime, as they have dropped the ball repeatedly since taking over. I have a problem with them not being prepared for something most of this fanbase saw coming. I have probably defended Lynch more than most fans but I'm also critical when I believe he warrants it. And from the outside, looking in, it appears as if they really didn't have a plan for Ward's injury. And that should give us all a reason to be alarmist, since Ward and his abilities@FS were the reasons we were given as to why this front office failed to address a position most of us saw as a glaring need. Now the potential and abilities of Moore@FS? Didn't hear that mention not once when Lynch was defending his stance to not draft a safety, post-draft. Just him reiterating how much they really liked Ward and Colbert and how confident they were in their abilities, going forward. It just looks, once again, like we're being reactive instead of proactive...that irks me more than anything. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by 757-NINER