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lark25

Biggest head scratching picks

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5 hours ago, 3rivers said:

I'm not naming specifics, but when a team really reaches in RD1, it could be costly if the player doesn't excel.  Add to this how teams will trade down and get more picks etc, it's what makes RD1 worth watching.  Byron Murphy falling  was something I didn't see happening but I'm no Kiper  eithero.O

 

I think this CB class had alot of guys in that late 1st-mid 2nd range where there wasn’t a huge difference so teams figured they could get a good one in round 2-3

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43 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I think this CB class had alot of guys in that late 1st-mid 2nd range where there wasn’t a huge difference so teams figured they could get a good one in round 2-3

it's a good year to have CB for a need then. It's good to get bargains  in areas of need especially if UFA never helped and or if other areas are in need of much more help.  

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4 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I think this CB class had alot of guys in that late 1st-mid 2nd range where there wasn’t a huge difference so teams figured they could get a good one in round 2-3

The NFL network guys had said that there were no #1 CBs in the draft and a bunch of #2 CBs.  I would agree.  Baker was the only one that was close to a #1 CB and the rest have some flaws.

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6 hours ago, Counselor said:

Man you will find any possible way to make the Jones pick look better than it is. When will it stop?

It is much better than it looks. So as long as people continue with this 3rd round to 5th round prospect nonsense, I’ll defend the pick. Until I get bored. 

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8 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

i like austen lane cuz hes a bad *** and was and still might be an MMA fighter right now but theres no way he was even the best LB/S available. 

I was JK, I'm just happy a kid from my school got drafted....

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Here is my philosophy about the draft and draft value.  All of the amateur draft-niks make all of these predictions and  write-ups which become the perceived value of the player.  When the NFL draft happens you get the actual value of the player.  Or at least the value that they will be judged on for the rest of their careers.  No one will remember that Joejaun Williams was rated as a 4th round pick.  He will always be judged as a 2nd round pick.  The expectations for his performance is as a 2nd round pick.  He can out perform the pick or perform below the pick/expectations.  But no one knows that until some time passes.

 

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8 hours ago, Gmen said:

Size, athleticism, toughness, intelligence, character, mechanics.

I'll give you size and he's got decent wheels.

Toughness and character are so tongue in cheek.

"Intelligence"? He makes bad decisions and is really bad at going through progressions so I don't really think that applies. Wow, he scored 37 on the Wonderlic, am I supposed to be impressed? Is that supposed to mean anything?

His mechanics are good until the moment you get an ounce of pressure on him. You seem to be ignoring all of his weaknesses which are far more numerous and impactful than the things you listed above besides maybe size and athleticism which can't be taught.

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1 hour ago, Danger said:

I'll give you size and he's got decent wheels.

How generous of you

 

1 hour ago, Danger said:

Toughness and character are so tongue in cheek

No, when you take a beating like he did behind a terrible offensive line, you earn the title of being tough. And when you have a spotless reputation, you earn the title of high character. There is nothing tongue in cheek about it. He’s an Eli clone in those regards.

 

1 hour ago, Danger said:

"Intelligence"? He makes bad decisions and is really bad at going through progressions so I don't really think that applies. Wow, he scored 37 on the Wonderlic, am I supposed to be impressed? Is that supposed to mean anything?

The two places where I generally get my scouting reports, NFL.com and Walterfootball, both have ‘working through progressions’ as pros. Who should I believe? 

Intelligence does apply. He was recruited by Harvard, Yale and Princeton. He has the ability to win the chess match at the line of scrimmage.

 

1 hour ago, Danger said:

is mechanics are good until the moment you get an ounce of pressure on him. You seem to be ignoring all of his weaknesses which are far more numerous and impactful than the things you listed above besides maybe size and athleticism which can't be taught.

Can you actually name some legitimate weaknesses? The only weakness that really sticks is that he doesn’t have elite arm talent. He makes up for that with all of his other traits. 

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7 minutes ago, Gmen said:

The two places where I generally get my scouting reports, NFL.com and Walterfootball, both have ‘working through progressions’ as pros. Who should I believe? 

 

7 minutes ago, Gmen said:

Can you actually name some legitimate weaknesses? 

Why would anyone bother saying what they view as weaknesses if you’re just going to can them because WalterFootball says so?

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36 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

 

Why would anyone bother saying what they view as weaknesses if you’re just going to can them because WalterFootball says so?

Well that’s the thing, I don’t really care about Danger’s opinion. He’s not a scout and as far as I know he has no experience in this area. But if he could provide a source to back up his claims, I’d take them more seriously. Notice I’m not refuting his statements with my own opinions, I provided sources. 

Bottom line - Danger is an Eagles fan trying to wish his perception of Jones into reality.  The year I see Eagles fans on this forum not criticize a Giants draft pick, will be my first. 

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19 hours ago, BoltsFan937 said:

Rooting for this kid, the beating he’s taken in the media is ridiculous.  I attribute most of this to all the mock drafts and “experts” picks in the four long months leading up to the draft.  Just like with Ferrill at 4, people get so used to seeing the same names mocked to their team, that when it doesn’t go that way, they get skewered for “reaching”.   If we didn’t have all this media attention on the draft for months, would we really be killing this kid right now? He’s a quality QB prospect, with years of production and starts to back it up.  If the argument is for Haskins, go look up how many one year starters at QB succeed in the NFL. Haskins has his warts too, his name just got more hype through the process.  

Here’s a prime example: I think every mock draft I’ve seen over the past few months had Jacksonville taking Jawaan Taylor at 7, and if not, Taylor was the first tackle off the board and at worst a top 15 pick.  Not only was he not the first tackle off the board, he ended up in the 2nd round and taken behind guys like Tytus Howard and Kaleb McGary who were widely viewed as day two picks. And guess what, Houston is getting killed and Jacksonville got a steal in the 2nd round 🙄

He has become a big time media underdog, which is something Giants fans have always rallied behind to support. The amount of hate he has received before he has done anything has me lending more credence to the emphasis Gettleman put on mental fortitude in his QB. Apparently that was a big point of emphasis and a big part of why Jones was the pick- they think he can handle it.

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26 minutes ago, Gmen said:

Well that’s the thing, I don’t really care about Danger’s opinion.

Then this forum is rather pointless if we’re all just going to parrot other people's opinions, isn't it? You’ve in the past accused fans of getting into the hive mindset created by “Kiper and McShay”, but you’re going exactly that (what makes it especially ironic is that you quoted Kiper as having a “good take” on Jones).

Plenty of people on this forum watch tape and some bring a lot of substance to the table. I’d take a handful of people on this forum over a handful of NFL GMs, without a doubt.

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But if he could provide a source to back up his claims, I’d take them more seriously. Notice I’m not refuting his statements with my own opinions, I provided sources. 

People did present you with more “expert” opinions in your other thread. You still don’t take the negatives seriously. Your response was to bring up more pundits that liked Jones. It seems you only listen to the ones you want to.

Once upon a time Vernon Gholston and Jemarcus Russell had positive scouting profiles too - being a professional doesn’t make you right. 

BTW, your “sources” also had Jones pinned as the 4th QB available, a late first-to-second round pick, and compared him to Ryan Tannehill. 

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Bottom line - Danger is an Eagles fan trying to wish his perception of Jones into reality.  The year I see Eagles fans on this forum not criticize a Giants draft pick, will be my first. 

Okay, do you happen to believe that you and other Giants fans ought to be omitted from Daniel Jones opinions, since you’re all biased homers (not calling all Giants fans homers, btw)?

If Eagles fans should immediately get dismissed due to their bias, then so should you and the Giants fans for yours - that’s fair, right?

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@Yin-Yang you’re right. What is the point of any of this? We’re all biased in our own way, and arguing about things that are basically a coin flip. Even the experts are wrong half the time. If we actually looked at our own track records, we’d realize how clueless we are, and wouldn’t take ourselves so seriously 

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6 hours ago, minutemancl said:

He has become a big time media underdog, which is something Giants fans have always rallied behind to support. The amount of hate he has received before he has done anything has me lending more credence to the emphasis Gettleman put on mental fortitude in his QB. Apparently that was a big point of emphasis and a big part of why Jones was the pick- they think he can handle it.

I'm a big believer in that position is primarily played between the ears.  Sure it helps if you have a cannon for an arm and some wheels, but I'll take the smart QB anyday.  As a side note, I love the argument that he falls apart under pressure lol, because you know, every QB just absolutely thrives when there's four Dlineman in his face.  As a Chargers fan, it must just be pure irony that Rivers best years have coincided with competent Oline play, and his worst years have come when the Oline was trash, go figure.  Now, put that Duke line up against some of those ACC Dlines and tell me how many QBS would have thrived there?

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Sigh, two sources are NFL.com and Walterfootball? Facepalm....

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