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Raiders trade Kicker Eddy Piniero to Bears

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I don't know of any history of teams trading kickers, so I won't touch on what it'd cost the Bears to trade for Gould.  The point I was trying to get at is what differentiates Piniero from the dozen of other FA kickers?  At the end of the day, it's a conditional pick but if he's active for 5 games they're handing over a pick for a guy they could have similarly gotten in FA.

A pick in 2021 that's likely to be very late 7th round pick?  It's almost free and this way we get a cheap salary and control through 2021.

If this kid can kick anywhere near as well as he did in college (88.4% on 43 kicks) then he's as big a bargain as Mack was.  He'll win games with his leg.

Edited by soulman

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20 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Every win you guys get affects the 1st round draft choice we receive next year. I'd rather have a slightly higher 1st rounder if Pineiro even has a chance of deciding a game, vs the 2021 7th if he makes the team.

That's a weird stance to take. 

You also should be happy Gruden and Pace have become trade buddies. Could be VERY helpful to your team in the future. 

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21 hours ago, CWood21 said:

That's an incredibly impulsive move to make. 

How so?

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7 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

That's a weird stance to take. 

You also should be happy Gruden and Pace have become trade buddies. Could be VERY helpful to your team in the future. 

How is it weird? If Chicago wins an extra game because of pineiro, that could decide up to 6 draft positions higher/lower, which is a large value in terms of draft capital. Now if you want to make the argument that they would be the only team to sign him if he were released, that would be very fair, but THIS YEAR, I don't see how it would be advantageous for the Raiders to help the Bears. That 2021 7th is essentially meaningless. 

I don't disagree that having connections in the NFL is a bad thing. But in this case, Oakland's front office should be hoping (not expecting) that Chicago is a bottom 5 team next time this year and not doing anything to help them.

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13 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

That's a weird stance to take. 

You also should be happy Gruden and Pace have become trade buddies. Could be VERY helpful to your team in the future. 

Not so weird.  He wants Bears to have a bad record so Raiders have a high pick. 

Conversely worse Raiders do higher that second round pick for Bears is going to be.

Not going to stop either team from dealing with each other.  They weren't going to keep the kicker, if they can get something for him great.  

 

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Hmmmm....Perhaps Gould will now give up on trying to go back to Chicago and just sign the tender. $5 million for 1 year and he wants out?! I don't get it.

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The Bears are doing what you have to do when you are not willing to spend big money on a kicker, cycle through a ton of guys and keep your options were open.

I think Pinero will be the leader in the clubhouse, but maybe they keep Elliott Fry on the PR so they have constant competition and another option they can go to if Pinero struggles.

 

What killed the Bears last season was not that Parkey sucked, they made the playoffs with him sucking the entire season, what killed them is that he had so much money guaranteed that they could not replace him after Detroit or SF when it was obviously a mess.

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5 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Not so weird.  He wants Bears to have a bad record so Raiders have a high pick. 

Conversely worse Raiders do higher that second round pick for Bears is going to be.

Not going to stop either team from dealing with each other.  They weren't going to keep the kicker, if they can get something for him great.  

 

Exactly. It's nothing personal. I want the best outcome for my team as Chi does for theirs.

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9 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Not so weird.  He wants Bears to have a bad record so Raiders have a high pick. 

I would think that by now he'd be accepting of the notion the next first round pick the Raiders get will be even lower than the last. Maybe he's trying to talk himself into thinking it'll be another top five pick...

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5 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I would think that by now he'd be accepting of the notion the next first round pick the Raiders get will be even lower than the last. Maybe he's trying to talk himself into thinking it'll be another top five pick...

He is not saying that at all. He is just saying that the more games the bears win, the worse off the Raiders are. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?? Even one more loss can mean a significant change in draft position. 

ALSO, in my opinion, the Bears are one of the teams most likely to regress next year. For one thing, they simply will not be able to force as many takeaways as they did last year. Its simply not sustainable year over year. Losing Fangio is a big loss as well, although Pagano is a good coach. 

I love Nagy as a play designer and play caller. MT has his issues though. He really is a one read and run kind of guy right now. He isn't seeing the whole field. Even on plays where he moves his head side to side, its pretty evident to me that he is just trying to look off defenders and has basically predetermined where he is going to go with the ball. Nagy has done an excellent job getting that first read open, and MT has done a good job of operating within the offense, but unless he makes some significant strides in that department, NFL defenses will make it very hard on the bears to win games. Its Kaepernick-esque tbh 

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19 minutes ago, N4L said:

He is not saying that at all. He is just saying that the more games the bears win, the worse off the Raiders are. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?? Even one more loss can mean a significant change in draft position. 

It's not a difficult concept to understand. And...your opinion aside, it's not at all difficult to forecast that what I said will end up being true, and the pick will be lower. 

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5 minutes ago, N4L said:

ALSO, in my opinion, the Bears are one of the teams most likely to regress next year. For one thing, they simply will not be able to force as many takeaways as they did last year. Its simply not sustainable year over year. Losing Fangio is a big loss as well, although Pagano is a good coach. 

I love Nagy as a play designer and play caller. MT has his issues though. He really is a one read and run kind of guy right now. He isn't seeing the whole field. Even on plays where he moves his head side to side, its pretty evident to me that he is just trying to look off defenders and has basically predetermined where he is going to go with the ball. Nagy has done an excellent job getting that first read open, and MT has done a good job of operating within the offense, but unless he makes some significant strides in that department, NFL defenses will make it very hard on the bears to win games. Its Kaepernick-esque tbh 

This is kind of in vogue opinion amongst a lot of people.  They point to turnovers, weak schedule and MT not being very good.  

I don't agree.  The Bears were an extremely young team last year.  

MT was essentially a rookie QB playing in a new system with a new coach.  Not sure why everyone wants to say he has plateaued or hit his ceiling as a QB.   He also started slow, I believe, because first thing he learned in new offense was a lot of double TE looks and quick RPOs to the TEs.  When Shaheen went down right before season started they played almost all 3 WR which they had not practiced nearly as much.

Roquan Smith, an exceptional talent, held out training camp and didn't play fast until later in year.  He should be awesome this year from day 1.

Their top FA, Allen Robinson, was coming off an ACL injury and couldn't practice really until training camp.  It was also a new system for him (as it was for every one on team save Burton).  Robinson closed year flashing as a very good player and his last game was like 142 yards and a touchdown.

Going back to last point.  Everyone on offense should be better in 2nd year in system.  

Mack did not practice with team until just before season (not that it mattered for him), but dude we got Mack!

Nichols, a very young DL, gained a starting role in mid season and looked good.  He should be better being a year older and stronger and gaining technique.  

Floyd was hurt for most of year and looked much better at end of year when he didn't have a broken hand.

They have 2 safeties that can cover and create turnovers now instead of one.  If pass rush is there and it should be, this team will still generate turnovers and big plays.  I can't think of an NFL team with a better overall defense in 2019 regardless of who coaches them.  

Daniels didn't start at guard until later in season and played pretty great most of time.  He was 20 when season started.  He should be much better this year if only because he is a year older.

Long had a healthy off season for first time in like 5 years.  That for him will make a large difference as he can actually work out and be in shape.  

They could not run the ball last year.  This year they should be able to adequately and pass game should be better.

They have decent depth at every position save QB and TE.  

On paper they are a much better team than last year.  All this is barring major injuries of course, but that is true of everyone.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

It's not a difficult concept to understand. And...your opinion aside, it's not at all difficult to forecast that what I said will end up being true, and the pick will be lower. 

It clearly is, because you cant seem to grasp it. 

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

This is kind of in vogue opinion amongst a lot of people.  They point to turnovers, weak schedule and MT not being very good.  

I don't agree.  The Bears were an extremely young team last year.  

Of course you don't, you are a bears fan lol :P

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

MT was essentially a rookie QB playing in a new system with a new coach.  Not sure why everyone wants to say he has plateaued or hit his ceiling as a QB.   He also started slow, I believe, because first thing he learned in new offense was a lot of double TE looks and quick RPOs to the TEs.  When Shaheen went down right before season started they played almost all 3 WR which they had not practiced nearly as much.

I am not saying he cant improve, just that its not as simple as 'oh its year two therefore he will be better'. There is nothing we have seen from MT at the pro level to think he can suddenly go through progressions like ALL above average-elite QBs do. Reading defenses is something you can learn, so I do expect some improvement year over year, but enough to make him more than just a product of the system in year 2? unlikely. 

You say 'first year in a new system' but disregard how QB friendly that system is. As stated, nagy is a great play designer and play caller. He got guys open. MT hit some open guys, I wont fault him too much for that, but he isn't a guy I expect to make off script plays with his arm. I will say he is a dangerous runner, which is why I likened him to Kaepernick. Both guys struggle(d) going through reads and relied on their legs a lot. 

He may become an elite QB, but he has some ways to go before he is considered 'average' IMO. He is a lot farther away than a lot of Bears fans would like to believe, and this is coming from someone who actually liked MT coming out.

 

Not going to dispute your other points. Its possible young players improve over what they did last year. Its also very possible that they overperformed last year and are due for a regression to the mean. Despite consistent pressure, I think it is more than likely that the bears have less takeaways next year. Its just not sustainable.

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These Bear fans acting like progression is “automatic” with time forward. You don’t just keep going up up up automatically, doesn’t work like that. Every team improves every year, very rare a team regresses (Dolphins). Bears improved minimally compared to other teams. Mitch is the 24-25th best starting QB in the league. They lost their DC Fangio, one of the best in the league, which is a huge deal. Coordinators are super superrrr important. Raiders went from 12-4 to 6-10 without their OC. Falcons went from Super Bowl to 8-8 without their OC. Broncos went from SB Champs to missing the playoffs without their DC. Just a minor few examples.. 

Would I be surprised if the Bears won it all? Not really. But I also wouldn’t be shocked if they finished in the 6-9 win range which these Bear fans are acting like is 99% impossible. 

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On 5/6/2019 at 4:58 PM, TheKillerNacho said:

Still rooting for Blewitt due to his name

Misses game-winning kick...

Image result for you blew it gif

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