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The Official Trevor Lawrence 2021 Draft Prospect Thread

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14 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

I like him a lot but hope he's not another Christian Hackenburg.

There is no way Lawrence becomes like Hackenburg.  He already has far superior pocket fundamentals, footwork and overall awareness.  He has a stronger arm as well and can launch from a variety of different positions even when his feet are not completely set unlike Hackenburg.  He is far more athletic as well and arguably stronger.  Lawrence is listed anywhere from 205-215 in weight, I would guess he is closer to the 215 size, sure he is skinny and thin but I would say he is pretty strong for a thinner QB.  Athletically he is good enough.

 

The kid is elite and arguably the best FR QB ever in college football, he will have all the pressure in the world on him now though as a SOPH and then a JR.  Will be interesting how he handles it all.  Does help he is playing with arguably a top 5-10 pick at WR in Ross in 2021 and Higgins will be a 1st rounder this year, and Etienne is a 1st rounder at RB as well, but the defense should be a llittle weaker on the DL than they were last season so will see how they do overall as a team.  

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15 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

I like him a lot but hope he's not another Christian Hackenburg.

Christian Hackenberg was a product of Bill O'Brien and had a crappy work ethic and mental attitude.

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56 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

There is no way Lawrence becomes like Hackenburg.  He already has far superior pocket fundamentals, footwork and overall awareness.  He has a stronger arm as well and can launch from a variety of different positions even when his feet are not completely set unlike Hackenburg.  He is far more athletic as well and arguably stronger.  Lawrence is listed anywhere from 205-215 in weight, I would guess he is closer to the 215 size, sure he is skinny and thin but I would say he is pretty strong for a thinner QB.  Athletically he is good enough.

 

The kid is elite and arguably the best FR QB ever in college football, he will have all the pressure in the world on him now though as a SOPH and then a JR.  Will be interesting how he handles it all.  Does help he is playing with arguably a top 5-10 pick at WR in Ross in 2021 and Higgins will be a 1st rounder this year, and Etienne is a 1st rounder at RB as well, but the defense should be a llittle weaker on the DL than they were last season so will see how they do overall as a team.  

Hack had arm strength, that wasn't the issue. His issue was making reads and even moreso accuracy. 

There was ONE area where Hack did really excel. He was a 2-minute drill savant....

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8 minutes ago, Danger said:

Hack had arm strength, that wasn't the issue. His issue was making reads and even moreso accuracy. 

There was ONE area where Hack did really excel. He was a 2-minute drill savant....

Yeah he had arm strength but Lawrence has a better arm all around and arguably stronger.  To me if one needs a perfect pocket and zero pressure to throw the ball well, that is not having a great arm.  A great throwing arm is being able to make plays down field when things are not ideal.  Thus Hackenberg and his terrible accuracy that got worse and worse the more pressured he was.  His footwork was awful and could not improvise or throw well on the move either.  He had some decent receivers to throw to that helped him look good also with Allen Robinson for a year then Chris Godwin, DaeSean Hamilton, Jesse James, Geno Lewis, Kyle Carter and Mike Gesicki

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22 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Chris Godwin, DaeSean Hamilton, Jesse James, Geno Lewis, Kyle Carter and Mike Gesicki

Please tell me you had to look up who Hack was throwing to. Yeah Allen Robinson was an easy one, but the fact that you named Geno Lewis and Kyle Carter... if you actually remembered both of them off hand then you're crazy lol.

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1 hour ago, Danger said:

Please tell me you had to look up who Hack was throwing to. Yeah Allen Robinson was an easy one, but the fact that you named Geno Lewis and Kyle Carter... if you actually remembered both of them off hand then you're crazy lol.

I mean, Ozzy knows basically everything about draft prospects. Even when I disagree about the subjective parts, he has an astounding level of knowledge.

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2 hours ago, Danger said:

Please tell me you had to look up who Hack was throwing to. Yeah Allen Robinson was an easy one, but the fact that you named Geno Lewis and Kyle Carter... if you actually remembered both of them off hand then you're crazy lol.

I did have to look back at the old Penn State rosters to familiarize myself again with who was in that group.  Off the top of my head yeah it would have been Allen Robinson and Hamilton, had to recall the rest looking it up.  

Allen Robinson was a fine jump ball playmaker, could go up and come down with just about anything at the college level.  Not super fast but made a crap ton of contested catches.  Hamilton was a big time recruit, smooth route runner and just all around solid consistent football player who got better and better in college.  Godwin had big time speed and was key to that program turning the offense around, was a great 1st, 2nd or 3rd WR, put him in the slot or out wide and he could burn guys deep and did it often, got better and better over time as well.  Geno Lewis was nothing special but in college could get things done and had decent speed as a 3rd option. Jeese James was never a huge fan of his in college but kid is physically put together and has the size and as a 1st or 2nd TE is very solid especially in the college game in multiple TE sets.  Kyle Carter was an underachiever in college for the most part, should have been better than he was but is decent at getting down field and teams had to pay attention to him and he was a weapon for sure.  Gesicki did not do much early in his career obviously but was a threat when he was out there just physically.  That was off the top of my head.

 

I can recall some position cores off the top of my head but clearly cannot get them all, and Penn State was not all that memorable in terms of WR depth but had more talent there than most teams just not historic talent there.  Florida State for example had Peter Warrick, Laveranues Coles, Ron Dugans and Marvin Minnus all on the same roster I believe, now that is talent and depth for a WR core, that was off the top of my head.  

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On 6/24/2019 at 5:08 PM, Danger said:

Please tell me you had to look up who Hack was throwing to. Yeah Allen Robinson was an easy one, but the fact that you named Geno Lewis and Kyle Carter... if you actually remembered both of them off hand then you're crazy lol.

Kyle Carter made it to the NFL though

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3 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

Kyle Carter made it to the NFL though

He was basically a nobody at Penn State. Never caught a pass in the NFL to my knowledge.

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On 6/24/2019 at 12:11 AM, SteelKing728 said:

I like him a lot but hope he's not another Christian Hackenburg.

Save for some sort of catastrophic brain injury that leaves Lawrence in a catatonic state, I highly doubt that he'll Hackenberg himself over the next two years. Hackenberg had some great physical tools, but had the football brain of a six year old (probably why he and Bill O'Brien get along so well... but I digress).

Lawrence's football IQ (at the collegiate level) reminds me a lot of Sam Bradford, TBH - for all of the bagging we do on Bradford as a pro, people forget he was a football savant as a freshman and sophomore at Oklahoma, running a pure no huddle spread as a 18/19 year old true Fr/Soph.

The mental acumen to do that as efficiently as Bradford did is evidence that he saw the game (in real time, at field level, with a defense going full speed at him) at a microscopic level - even the smallest nuance from a defensive front gave him reams of information to exploit. Mentally, he was incredibly gifted; His body failed him, which you can't really anticipate (and holds no bearing to his football IQ).

I'm confident - if not completely assured - Lawrence can demonstrate the same, if in some other method. 

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7 hours ago, ET80 said:

Save for some sort of catastrophic brain injury that leaves Lawrence in a catatonic state, I highly doubt that he'll Hackenberg himself over the next two years. Hackenberg had some great physical tools, but had the football brain of a six year old (probably why he and Bill O'Brien get along so well... but I digress).

Lawrence's football IQ (at the collegiate level) reminds me a lot of Sam Bradford, TBH - for all of the bagging we do on Bradford as a pro, people forget he was a football savant as a freshman and sophomore at Oklahoma, running a pure no huddle spread as a 18/19 year old true Fr/Soph.

The mental acumen to do that as efficiently as Bradford did is evidence that he saw the game (in real time, at field level, with a defense going full speed at him) at a microscopic level - even the smallest nuance from a defensive front gave him reams of information to exploit. Mentally, he was incredibly gifted; His body failed him, which you can't really anticipate (and holds no bearing to his football IQ).

I'm confident - if not completely assured - Lawrence can demonstrate the same, if in some other method. 

His body and sleeves failed him.

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8 minutes ago, Danger said:

His body and sleeves failed him.

Oh goodness, yes - something out of 1986 with those sleeves, yipes.

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8 hours ago, ET80 said:

Save for some sort of catastrophic brain injury that leaves Lawrence in a catatonic state, I highly doubt that he'll Hackenberg himself over the next two years. Hackenberg had some great physical tools, but had the football brain of a six year old (probably why he and Bill O'Brien get along so well... but I digress).

Lawrence's football IQ (at the collegiate level) reminds me a lot of Sam Bradford, TBH - for all of the bagging we do on Bradford as a pro, people forget he was a football savant as a freshman and sophomore at Oklahoma, running a pure no huddle spread as a 18/19 year old true Fr/Soph.

The mental acumen to do that as efficiently as Bradford did is evidence that he saw the game (in real time, at field level, with a defense going full speed at him) at a microscopic level - even the smallest nuance from a defensive front gave him reams of information to exploit. Mentally, he was incredibly gifted; His body failed him, which you can't really anticipate (and holds no bearing to his football IQ).

I'm confident - if not completely assured - Lawrence can demonstrate the same, if in some other method. 

Now a days I do not feel a freshman coming in running a no huddle spread up tempo offense is anything special.  They basically run it at many major programs in high school so there is not a great change there for many.  Heck with all the Passing camps kids go to and pre college work they do and coming to school early enough for Spring ball before the start of their true freshman season, it is getting easier and easier for freshman QBs to succeed than it was 20 years ago.  

Not sure running an offense you ran in high school, or running and offense that now basically everyone runs to some degree is amazing football IQ.  Specifically in that OU offense, Josh Heupel was successful and he was an awful QB, Jason White was garbage and won the Heisman.  Even Paul Thompson had a level of success as a starter, then Bradford comes along and after him Landry Jones was very successful as well.  So there is something to do with system that has been carried over by a few coaching changes, outside of the TDs that one year for Bradford the stats between him and Jones are pretty similar.  

I always thought Bradford was overrated in college and was not as amazing as people thought he was.  His football character in terms of being a leader and being vocal is flat out awful, and not so sure I feel he has a great football IQ either.  If being quiet and not talking to your teammates much is great football IQ then yeah maybe he has it.  

 

In terms Lawrence, the kid is tall, strong and has a cannon arm.  Helps being in one of the best offenses in the country but not sure how much of his success had to do with his football IQ.  He made plays because he could throw it to the best freshman WR in the nation in Ross, not to mention Higgins who will be a 1st rounder, Renfrow who will be a pro for awhile and Rodgers should get drafted also.  Not to mention a 1600 rusher in Etienne, along with three other guys who had 400 yards or more rushing each.  Kind of can keep teams off balance, but granted Lawrence had probably the best freshman year of any true freshman QB ever.  Helps they won the National title and destroyed Alabama, things could have been different if they did not beat Syracuse at home with Bryce as the starter after Lawrence got hurt...

 

 

 

 

 

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Hackenberg also was protected by an OL his freshman year that featured 3 guys that would make NFL starts.

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Gad, I thought there would be more talk about Lawrence's new style and how many hits he took on Saturday. That was ridiculous. I'll roll right. Take a whack at me. I'll roll left. Take another crack at me. What could possibly go wrong?

It seems like Lawrence learned exactly the wrong lesson from 2018. Instead of honoring that big hit he took at Syracuse last season and making sure he would lessen those risks, Lawrence brainstormed to gain 10+ pounds and to use his legs more. Well, that's wonderful for a guy who thinks he is invincible. But as we've already discussed in this thread, his frame allows such a massive target area to begin with.

As I watched the NFL season openers today it was impossible not to project Trevor Lawrence into those conditions, with one edge threat after another to all that exposure. 

BTW, Tua continues to hold steady at 3 yards higher per attempt than Lawrence, dating to the beginning of 2018. It's basically one guy at 11 YPA, the other guy at 8 YPA, yet somehow conventional wisdom prefers the 8 YPA guy as vastly superior, based on one game.

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