ET80 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Matt Ryan and Jameis Winston both turned the ball over A LOT and "regressed" into their careers in that regard, not to mention DeShaun Watson. Johnny Manziel. Teddy Bridgewater. Pat Mahomes. Aaron Rodgers. Matt Stafford. It actually might be easier to list guys who JUST got better in college and not dealt with a decline at some point. Vince Young fits into this spot, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 32 minutes ago, ET80 said: It actually might be easier to list guys who JUST got better in college and not dealt with a decline at some point. Vince Young fits into this spot, maybe? Vince Young Matt Leinart Carson Palmer ...hard to think of some others to be honest...maybe Kerry Collins? 1 year guys don't apply to either (Trubisky, Haskins) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Activated10 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 5 hours ago, ET80 said: Johnny Manziel. Teddy Bridgewater. Pat Mahomes. Aaron Rodgers. Matt Stafford. It actually might be easier to list guys who JUST got better in college and not dealt with a decline at some point. Vince Young fits into this spot, maybe? Sorry I should of been more clear. I meant to say GENERATIONAL QB prospects don't have rough patches. Yes all those guys had rough patches no doubt, but none of them got the hype that Lawrence has received. You mentioned Manning and I was too young to see him play in college so you may have me there if others agree but otherwise it just isn't the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Activated10 said: Sorry I should of been more clear. I meant to say GENERATIONAL QB prospects don't have rough patches. Yes all those guys had rough patches no doubt, but none of them got the hype that Lawrence has received. You mentioned Manning and I was too young to see him play in college so you may have me there if others agree but otherwise it just isn't the case. How do you define a rough patch? Are we talking 2 games or an entire season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 8 hours ago, MWil23 said: Vince Young Matt Leinart Carson Palmer ...hard to think of some others to be honest...maybe Kerry Collins? 1 year guys don't apply to either (Trubisky, Haskins) Andrew Luck, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Activated10 said: Sorry I should of been more clear. I meant to say GENERATIONAL QB prospects don't have rough patches. Yes all those guys had rough patches no doubt, but none of them got the hype that Lawrence has received. You mentioned Manning and I was too young to see him play in college so you may have me there if others agree but otherwise it just isn't the case. To be fair, there have only been three "generational" QB prospects: John Elway, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. I'm not old enough to comment on Elway, so Manning and Luck are the two worth talking about. Manning had a rough patch (3-5 games) where he threw a few INTs and generally didn't play well - he also had a rep of not playing his best in the biggest games for the Vols. Luck really didn't become Luck until middway through his RS Soph year, so he started off very slowly. Lawrence started off red hot, won a NC as a true freshman (something Luck, Manning or Elway didn't do) and is still undefeated... while in a slump. Given the tools he's got at his disposal, he's bound to get out of this spot - probably this week, who knows? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town Values Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 15 hours ago, Activated10 said: Haha keep that same energy when Fields is in NY to compete for Heisman while Lawrence is nowhere to be found loll. No one cares about the Heisman. Mahomes never sniffed it & we are witnessing him play QB at a level seen before. Fields simply hasn't been tested at the college level. He's on a stacked team beating up poor to average teams. Of course it's not his fault that his conference sucks, the same is true for Clemson. I'm willing to admit it's entirely possible OSU is a better all round team than Clemson this season - that's the flaw in preseason CFB rankings. But, Fields running up stats on scrubs isn't going to make me put him ahead of Lawrence, so far has hasn't touched what Trev accomplished last year. Simply put - Lawrence has earned his status with his performance in big games, & that's on top of his obvious physical gifts. However, if Justin balls out in the playoffs & doesn't flinch under pressure, I might reconsider my position. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 11 hours ago, HoboRocket said: Andrew Luck, maybe? Definitely could be argued, albeit after his junior season, he couldn't really help himself that much, but he didn't really improve or regress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Activated10 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Small Town Values said: No one cares about the Heisman. Mahomes never sniffed it & we are witnessing him play QB at a level seen before. Fields simply hasn't been tested at the college level. He's on a stacked team beating up poor to average teams. Of course it's not his fault that his conference sucks, the same is true for Clemson. I'm willing to admit it's entirely possible OSU is a better all round team than Clemson this season - that's the flaw in preseason CFB rankings. But, Fields running up stats on scrubs isn't going to make me put him ahead of Lawrence, so far has hasn't touched what Trev accomplished last year. Simply put - Lawrence has earned his status with his performance in big games, & that's on top of his obvious physical gifts. However, if Justin balls out in the playoffs & doesn't flinch under pressure, I might reconsider my position. Pat Mahomes was considered a project as a prospect and not even top tier QB prospect that should go top 3 automatically . 2017 QB draft class was considered weak. So if you don't care about the Heisman then are you willing to admit Lawrence isn't generational talent and just a regular top tier QB prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Activated10 said: Pat Mahomes was considered a project as a prospect and not even top tier QB prospect that should go top 3 automatically . 2017 QB draft class was considered weak. So if you don't care about the Heisman then are you willing to admit Lawrence isn't generational talent and just a regular top tier QB prospect. The Heisman has nothing to do with who the better pro prospect is. Translatable skills are a lot more important than college accolades. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Activated10 said: Pat Mahomes was considered a project as a prospect and not even top tier QB prospect that should go top 3 automatically . 2017 QB draft class was considered weak. So if you don't care about the Heisman then are you willing to admit Lawrence isn't generational talent and just a regular top tier QB prospect. I think part of that was also the school he went to and system they ran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Activated10 said: Pat Mahomes was considered a project as a prospect and not even top tier QB prospect that should go top 3 automatically . 2017 QB draft class was considered weak. So if you don't care about the Heisman then are you willing to admit Lawrence isn't generational talent and just a regular top tier QB prospect. Winning the Heisman has absolutely zero correlation with NFL success, so I'm not even sure why it's being brought up. We've seen how many QBs win the Heisman and go on to be mediocre NFL QBs? How many QBs haven't won the Heisman and turned out to be studs in the NFL? There's zero correlation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town Values Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 On 02/10/2019 at 11:53 PM, Activated10 said: Pat Mahomes was considered a project as a prospect and not even top tier QB prospect that should go top 3 automatically . 2017 QB draft class was considered weak. So if you don't care about the Heisman then are you willing to admit Lawrence isn't generational talent and just a regular top tier QB prospect. The most outstanding player in college football =/= the best player at their position. Kyler Murray may have been college football's most outstanding player. But, simply put - nobody played QB in college at a higher level than Trevor Lawrence last year. If he was eligible for the draft he would've went first overall. He was an elite HS player (5 Star Recruit) & last year he proved to be an elite college player as a true freshman. A down year statistically when it's obvious the Clemson offense isn't clicking in all facets of play - isn't going to change what he's accomplished at such a young age. His body of work combined with his physical talent is what gives him the once in a generation status. - Generational QB Prospects: J. Elway (HOF), P. Manning (HOF), A. Luck (HOF Talent) ~ (Heisman ~ 0%) Last Heisman winning Pro Football Hall of Fame QB - Roger Staubach (1963) In the context of best college player - The Heisman has value In the context of evaluating potential elite NFL talent - The Heisman is practically worthless 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 On 10/3/2019 at 12:25 PM, Small Town Values said: Kyler Murray may have been college football's most outstanding player. But, simply put - nobody played QB in college at a higher level than Trevor Lawrence last year. If he was eligible for the draft he would've went first overall. Not even close. Kyler Murray was exponentially better than Lawrence, and that's not a knock on Lawrence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Not even close. Kyler Murray was exponentially better than Lawrence, and that's not a knock on Lawrence. Against an common opponent, Alabama, Lawrence outplayed Murray and it was not even close. Mind you Lawrence was a true freshman and Murray was a RS JR. Murray had a tough game against Bama and came back late after taking some huge hits but his completion percentage was much worse and his effectiveness game long was worse in a loss. Now if Lawrence gets worse the more he plays sure but one would assume he will get better than when he played as a true freshman in college. And yeah Lawrence would have easily been picked over Kyler was last season if he could have been put in the draft. If Kliffy boy was not the coach of Arizona Kyler could have feel quite a bit possibly, still 1st round but not 1st overall no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.