What is your opinion on Lamar Jackson and the Ravens offense?

[N4L]

12 hours ago, Boltstrikes said:

Lamar can throw. He has a cannon and CAN hit tight windows. The physical talent is there, like a more erratic Brett Favre throwing wise. If he ever gets consistent with the throws, he’ll be dangerous. Unfortunately his legs hurt him at this stage of development, he relies on them too much and hasn’t worked hard enough towards being a consistent threat with his arm. I expect to see the Ravens offense giving him the true rookie treatment this season. He’ll be asked to hand the ball off and make one or two reads on passing plays before being asked to go to the check down. I do not expect the Ravens to bring back the fat cat offense with him. It was exposed as worthless in the post season without the basics being solid behind it. I’d expect them to keep it under raps until they establish the basic run, run,  pass fundamentals this season. 

He can, hit tight windows... sometimes. His throwing motion is just not super repeatable. Thats why he is erratic. He basically whips the ball back, then around and forward. There are times the arm looks great and there are other times he makes it harder on his receivers than it needs to be by forcing them to adjust in the air. 

I am a firm believer that accuracy and ball placement are the most important thing for an NFL QB. If you dont have good ball placement, its going to be really hard to succeed unless you can make up for it with other things. Lamar obviously can make up for it with other things he is able to do and he obviously is an elite athlete with a rare blend of length and quickness. Normally guys that long are not quick or agile.  He may be the rare exception to the rule of guys who can succeed with inferior ball placement in the NFL. 

He does have a big arm though and it seems like the ravens made a point to add a lot of speed to that offense. Having a home run threat or two on the field at all times will be important for him. He needs to make sure that he takes a lot of deep shots early and often in games. Do it from every down and distance to keep teams from crowding the box.  

Greg Roman (new OC and former 49er OC with kaepernick) is an amazing play designer and schemer of the run game. The play designs he had with the 49ers were phenomenal. So much misdirection and traps etc. I remember we ran a toss counter a few times. Alex smith would toss the ball right, the OL would downblock to the right, then our FB would take a step right, then kick out the DE on the left and the RB would cut left, directly behind the FB. Loved it. there were always new wrinkles for the first year. Then it got a little stale/predictable and we made the switch to from Alex Smith to Kaepernick. Then it was some new wrinkles and then back to being super predictable once teams figured out that Kaepernick was a one read kind of guy with a slow release.

Lamar has a slow release (faster than kaeps but still slow) and has a looooong way to go at reading defenses. I cant tell if the experienced gained was more valuable to him or if the film he put out there was more beneficial to opposing DCs who are trying to figure him out. It will really depend if he progresses at all as a passer. He really needs to make that his #1 focus this year. Kaepernick cared more about lifting weights than watching film. Seriously, the rumor was that Kaep watched zero film at home. they know how much film you watch on these team issued tablets now-a-days. If lamar wants to be a great player, then he needs to focus his offseason on reading defenses and throwing with anticipation. 

One of Greg Roman's problems was play calling. Our offense was constantly lining up for the first time with like 5s on the play clock. It was a freaking mess. So many wasted timeouts and delay of games. He also has no clue how to scheme a passing game. The passing concepts were elementary and easy to figure out. Unless you have superior players on the outside, your WRs arent going to get open. 

I cant tell if a QB who is an amazing runner but an elementary passer, is a great pairing with an OC who is amazing at scheming a run game, but horrible at scheming a passing game, is a match made in heaven or a disaster waiting to happen. Could be great, could blow up in their face. Probably a lot of both tbh.

The second year after a full offseason of film study by DCs is usually very hard for running QBs.

I think the chargers gameplan of 1 LB and 6 or 7 DBs that are all lined up close to the LOS will be used against them a lot this year. It counteracts all the speed to the outside that they have. Will be interesting to see how Ingram is used as well. 

[N4L]

4 hours ago, sp6488 said:

Agreed.  Particularly when the playoff game is being used as the primary justification.  He's the youngest QB to ever start a playoff game, yet he's somehow locked in place for the remainder of his career?  Further, he was middle-of-the pack for the 1st round QBs as it pertains to completion percentage.  It's not like he's on an island of poor passing performance.

He had a passer rating of 84.5.

For comparison:

Baker - 93.7
Darnold - 77.6
Allen - 67.9
Rosen - 66.7

Passer rating isn't a perfect statistic (nothing is), but he's become this passing pariah and it doesn't make a ton of sense.

Its just as likely that he has a 'worse' passing season next year as it is that he 'improves' as a passer. DCs will have a full year of film on him. I think you are discrediting that aspect of it. Everyone is going to do exactly what the chargers did and then some. The formula to beat him was put on film and everyone will be able to break it down in great detail. Its much much different than having one or two weeks to prepare. 

Especially considering Greg Roman has a horrible track record with regards to the passing game. 

You cant say 'youngest to ever start a playoff game' like that should excuse a bad performance. You are only as good as your last performance tbh

[buno67]

16 hours ago, Boltstrikes said:

like a more erratic Brett Favre throwing wise.

An erratic Brett Farve isn’t a good thing IMO. That is going to be a QB who is throwing sub 60% and having an INT % above 4%. Anytime Farve had a 4% INT% he threw 20+ INTs in the season. Also those seasons were some of his worse seasons stat wise 

[sp6488]

4 hours ago, buno67 said:

An erratic Brett Farve isn’t a good thing IMO. That is going to be a QB who is throwing sub 60% and having an INT % above 4%. Anytime Farve had a 4% INT% he threw 20+ INTs in the season. Also those seasons were some of his worse seasons stat wise 

FWIW Jackson was 58.4% completion last year (3 of 5 for the rookie class) and 1.8% INT. 

[Thomas5737]

28 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

FWIW Jackson was 58.4% completion last year (3 of 5 for the rookie class) and 1.8% INT. 

It's the high percentage of passes that just looked terrible that are the biggest concern. Yeah, his completion percentage wasn't terrible for a vertical passing offense but that isn't what they were running. Throw in a a larger emphasis of the defense stacking for the run and it makes 58% even less impressive.

Jackson needs to fumble less, he got lucky they recovered 75% of them last year. Still can't fumble 20 times per season in the NFL. He can hit a wide open big play at times and run all day long. He is an exciting QB to have more than a great QB to have. He has too keep those legs heathy though I don't think he keeps his position long if he were to lose his threat to run.

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

It's the high percentage of passes that just looked terrible that are the biggest concern.

This. He threw some of the most hilariously bad passes I've ever seen a QB make last season. From clean pockets with open WR's.

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Jackson needs to fumble less

Another gigantic issue for him. This I do believe he will clean up, but did the dude never catch a snap before last season? He looked inept and overwhelmed as a passer.

 

I just hate the argument that, "He's going to improve." I don't think people are realizing how much he would have to improve to be an effective passer. Plus that run game can't afford to take any dips in production or else he's absolute toast, along with the rest of that team. I cannot wait to have my opinion validated during the season.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

I don’t like any QB who depends on their legs as much as Jackson does.  It’s nothing to do with him specifically, or the team.

I think it’s possible they have some short term success, but if history is any indicator, it’s gonna be a matter of when, not if, he gets hurt.  If he tries to run in 300 times this season I don’t see him holding up for all 16 imo, defenders are too big and too fast.

As far Jackson specifically, I don’t love his accuracy.  He can make accurate throws at times, but he’s not threading the needle consistently.  

I wouldn’t want my team to go all in on that style of offense, but I think they’ve done a decent job of actually going all in with guys like RGIII and McSorely. This is going to be their system,good or bad, which I think you’d need to be willing to do to have any chance of this working.

At the end of the day the NFL will figure out how to keep him in the pocket and make him read defenses and make difficult throws from the pocket consistently. I’m not sure he’s gonna be able to do that.

[NFL_Announcer]

lmao the Ravens... actually might've been able to win the playoff game if they didn't stick with Jackson who got all his stats in garbage time. 

The guy weighs 200 lbs, is 6'1" and was on pace to run the ball nearly 300 times last year. Vick in a full season was 123 times. And then your backup is RG Knee? Going with Lamar Jackson might be the stupidest decision by a FO since drafting Russell.

[wackywabbit]

12 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I cannot wait to have my opinion validated during the season.

So, what exactly would have to happen on the field in 2019 for you to not consider your opinion validated? I get the sense that if the Ravens season ends with anything other than a SB victory where Lamar has a great statistical outing, you will be auto-validating all over yourself at that moment.Try to actually make a statement, instead of a vaguery that you can "validate" even if Lamar leads the Ravens to another division title.

Seriously, what exactly is the lowest bar that you feel very confident Lamar won't reach? Will he not end the season as the starter? Fail to win 6 games? Lead a bottom 5 offense? I feel like those milestones match up with the sentiment you seem to have. But you seem scared to put out a tangible statement.

[HTTRDynasty]

Good video breaking down last year’s offense, published right before they played the Chargers in the regular season. 

 

[Thomas5737]

17 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

So, what exactly would have to happen on the field in 2019 for you to not consider your opinion validated? I get the sense that if the Ravens season ends with anything other than a SB victory where Lamar has a great statistical outing, you will be auto-validating all over yourself at that moment.Try to actually make a statement, instead of a vaguery that you can "validate" even if Lamar leads the Ravens to another division title.

Seriously, what exactly is the lowest bar that you feel very confident Lamar won't reach? Will he not end the season as the starter? Fail to win 6 games? Lead a bottom 5 offense? I feel like those milestones match up with the sentiment you seem to have. But you seem scared to put out a tangible statement.

I'd say a bottom 5 passing attack and less than 9 team wins probably means Jackson didn't do his part. He isn't in a situation where his team won 1 game the previous 2 seasons combined or anything like that.

[BleedTheClock]

12 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

So, what exactly would have to happen on the field in 2019 for you to not consider your opinion validated? I get the sense that if the Ravens season ends with anything other than a SB victory where Lamar has a great statistical outing, you will be auto-validating all over yourself at that moment.Try to actually make a statement, instead of a vaguery that you can "validate" even if Lamar leads the Ravens to another division title.

Seriously, what exactly is the lowest bar that you feel very confident Lamar won't reach? Will he not end the season as the starter? Fail to win 6 games? Lead a bottom 5 offense? I feel like those milestones match up with the sentiment you seem to have. But you seem scared to put out a tangible statement.

The Lamar Jackson experiment will be over at this point next year. That’s my expectation. We’ll see. 

[wackywabbit]

3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

The Lamar Jackson experiment will be over at this point next year. That’s my expectation. We’ll see. 

That's a respectable and pretty bold prediction to say the Ravens will move on from Jackson as the starter during or after the 2019 season. Let's see if it happens.

[Trentwannabe]

If they didn't have Greg Roman I would be really worried for them but his ability to draw up and create a variety of run plays should give Lamar more "open" throws of of PA and rollouts. 

[bomont]

This is another team that's hard to tell. They could be great due to Jackson maturing and an improved O, I really like Brown in the draft, or falter due to those new additions not working out and the D faltering (though I doubt it). I really liked the Ferguson pick in the draft too. I expect playoff contenders but it is no lock.