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AKRNA

Mini-Camp Notes

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13 hours ago, BroncoSojia said:

I try not to get attached to any UDFA until they prove something in the preseason and regular season. The odds are that most of them won’t even be in football after preseason is over.

Well, that is the case of probably 50% of every NFL team's current roster. But, UDFA's make up a lot more of NFL rosters than you would think and as key contributors too.

https://www.catscratchreader.com/2018/5/22/17378036/nfl-undrafted-free-agents-play-more-often-than-you-probably-think

That article shows that in 2017, of players that played 40% of a team's Offensive and Defensive snaps, there were more UDFAs than any other individual round besides the 1st round.

2018_05.21_UDFA_Chart.jpg

I actually prefer the buzz of a UDFA than any other rookie on the team. If you look back over the last 15 years, no other team in the NFL rivals us when it comes to UDFA key contributors and I think that is something to be really proud of.

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On 5/31/2019 at 1:41 AM, lomaxgrUK said:

Well, that is the case of probably 50% of every NFL team's current roster. But, UDFA's make up a lot more of NFL rosters than you would think and as key contributors too.

https://www.catscratchreader.com/2018/5/22/17378036/nfl-undrafted-free-agents-play-more-often-than-you-probably-think

That article shows that in 2017, of players that played 40% of a team's Offensive and Defensive snaps, there were more UDFAs than any other individual round besides the 1st round.

2018_05.21_UDFA_Chart.jpg

I actually prefer the buzz of a UDFA than any other rookie on the team. If you look back over the last 15 years, no other team in the NFL rivals us when it comes to UDFA key contributors and I think that is something to be really proud of.

Wow, after round 4 is terrible vs UDFA (>5+6+7). If only we hit better in most of the recent drafts we might be over .500. Ugh.

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Ron Leary reportedly with no restrictions in practice.  He may not be the same and could be a camp causality, but if he’s healthy and near his previous form that is HUGE for this OL.  On paper probably the best OL Elway has put together.

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Leary also said the plan is for him to move back to RG.  So the starting OL as of now would be LT Bolles, LG Risner, OC McGovern, RG Leary, RT James.  As of now unless a player emerges or Denver goes and gets someone the depth is Sam Jones (whose worked at OC/OG) and Elijah Wilkinson (who started at OG at times last year and supposedly can play RT). 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, germ-x said:

Ron Leary reportedly with no restrictions in practice.  He may not be the same and could be a camp causality, but if he’s healthy and near his previous form that is HUGE for this OL.  On paper probably the best OL Elway has put together.

Because of his injury guarantee for 5.35M, a cut now only saves 2.8M instead of the original 8.35M savings had he not been unable to pass a physical.   He'd pretty much have to be not able to be a top 7-8 OL to warrant a cut.    As much as I don't think we can count on him and need another G to be ready to step in, at 2.8M it's a pretty iffy cut if he's got anything left.  Lasting 12+ games let alone the season might be a stretch, but for that $ it's not really worth the savings, unless he's really got nothing left.   Guess we'll find out in TC.

Edited by Broncofan

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2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Because of his injury guarantee for 5.35M, a cut now only saves 2.8M instead of the original 8.35M savings had he not been unable to pass a physical.   He'd pretty much have to be not able to be a top 7-8 OL to warrant a cut.    As much as I don't think we can count on him and need another G to be ready to step in, at 2.8M it's a pretty iffy cut if he's got anything left.  Lasting 12+ games let alone the season might be a stretch, but for that $ it's not really worth the savings, unless he's really got nothing left.   Guess we'll find out in TC.

He's got a tough go in front of him. I don't see him as anywhere near a lock. His spot got alot weaker when they stuck Risner next to Bolles.

He's not a natural at RG and pretty limited in a ZBS. I'd be real curious to see where Schlottman and Jones are lining up and with which unit. Curious about the 3 vets also, Barclay, Brendel and to a point Green. I'm really kind of excited about our OL this year.

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I bet they've been trying to trade Ron but haven't found takers. 

Leary may not seem like a natural scheme fit but most of the stuff they ran in Dallas was zone-based. He also seems to prefer RG and played well for us in that spot. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, AKRNA said:

He's got a tough go in front of him. I don't see him as anywhere near a lock. His spot got alot weaker when they stuck Risner next to Bolles.

He's not a natural at RG and pretty limited in a ZBS. I'd be real curious to see where Schlottman and Jones are lining up and with which unit. Curious about the 3 vets also, Barclay, Brendel and to a point Green. I'm really kind of excited about our OL this year.

Yeah if age/injuries have robbed him of the ability to be a top 7-8 guy, then saving 2.8M still matters.   It's just that at 2.8M, that's literally backup-level money, unless you don't dress.  Re: other guys, I do think the keys are Jones & Wilkinson, simply because they're young guys who Munchak could really coach up.  Munchak's not at Scarnecchia-level impact, but he's literally a top 3 OL coach all-time.    Even Chaz Green has some base to work off, although most remember that 6-sack game to Adrian Clayborn, IIRC he gave up 4-5 of them (the Clayborn family got an extra 3-4M that year in bonuses and likely 2-3M the next year in FA because of that, they must have a pic of him on their mantelpiece lol).   

Munchak coming to DEN is probably the biggest long-term addition, because as much as you love the trenches (and I agree you have to be good there to be a perennial contender), teams' can't have 5 high-paid guys / 1st-2nd round picks spent for the entire starting OL, they have to find some value guys, otherwise team balance is almost impossible with that type of allocation.    DAL did OK with that model, but at the expense of a meh D, it's such a fine needle to thread.  If you can coach up Day 3 guys / value finds to even start at 1-2 spots, suddenly team construction is so much easier.  Of course, the other path is the rookie-contract QB who's good (top-12-15 play at minimum), but that's another entire discussion lol.

 
 
 
11 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

I bet they've been trying to trade Ron but haven't found takers. 

Leary may not seem like a natural scheme fit but most of the stuff they ran in Dallas was zone-based. He also seems to prefer RG and played well for us in that spot. 

Yeah, there's almost no doubt about that - and the hard part, is that while 5.35M is guaranteed for Leary, a team trading for Leary would be paying for the 5.35M AND the 2.8M we could save.    Coming off his back and knee troubles, there's no way a team would pay Leary 8M in the open market, so it's a pipe dream to try and trade him.   Elway would likely have to eat 4-5M of the salary in converting it to a bonus - in which case, then we're back to the same Q - do you part ways with Leary at a 3M savings?  The only diff would be getting an extra pick, but at his age, I don't see him fetching more than a 5th-6th round pick...if that.  

Leary's experience with a ZBS will help him, though.  It's just that at his age / injury risk, it's very iffy to count on him holding up, and being as effective as 2018-earlier levels.  It really sucks that there was an injury guarantee, it was a no-brainer to part ways after the season otherwise.    His career path really highlights the dangers of the 2nd contract at top market prices for meat grinder positions.  A 2nd contract is concerning given how much top market prices command, but even moreso for those grinder positions / injury-risk player profiles.   Obviously you have to retain some guys / sign 2nd contract FA's, but at times it's such a crapshoot - Leary was looked as the 2nd best G available in 2018's offseason, but there were flags about his injury history. While it's totally hindsight, it shows why top-level money is so iffy to commit to, and we saw that play out with Veldheer last year (and Watson the year before) so hopefully Munchak's ability to develop cheap talent helps Elway avoid having to go into the FA market at top market $'s, or even mid-level for high-injury risk guys. 

Edited by Broncofan

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I get there are obvious concerns with Leary.  I also don’t doubt for a second Denver tried to trade him with his contract.  I am going to go optimistic here, though.  He won’t be what he was year 1 in Denver (where he had a PFF grade in the top 8 OGs), but I think he returns to good enough form (maybe still not worth the money) that helps Denver have the best OL they’ve fielded under Elway.

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3 hours ago, OrangeNBlue86 said:

Yay! Now I feel just like last year when Case was gonna lead us to the super bowl! Even our backups backups are practicing well and would be starting on other teams. 

Thats the beauty of this time of year! Undefeated, SB bound with a roster of future all-pros. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Plenty of time for reality come September. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 8:12 PM, BroncoBruin said:

I bet they've been trying to trade Ron but haven't found takers. 

Leary may not seem like a natural scheme fit but most of the stuff they ran in Dallas was zone-based. He also seems to prefer RG and played well for us in that spot. 

No doubt they've tried to trade him but that'd be pretty tough. 

Yeah, he can still play. No argument. I just don't see how he fits into the plan. 

This season has shades of '95 all over it. Shanny added the final pieces to the OL, hired Alex Gibbs to coach 'em and by 96 they were the best OL in the NFL. I think we're taking the same approach this year. Brought in a good RT for 4 years, drafted Risner, another 4 years. Bolles has three seasons left as does McGovern. Jones and Schlottman have had a year in a weight room under NFL coaching and should be ready. It doesn't help our OL next year to play Leary this year. 

I really wish we knew who was lining up where and with which unit. All the news out of OTA's and I can't find mention of that anywhere.

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Any news on when Jake Butt might be back? I thought he was playing really well before he went down last year. I think a TE group of him, Fant & Heuerman would be a really solid group (albeit with health concerns).

Troy Fumagalli will have a real job on his hands to make this team. If he does, you'd have to imagine it is because of ability on Special Teams.

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