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Was Tony Dungy an elite head coach

Tony Dungy an elite HC  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. Was Tony Dungy an elite HC

    • Yes, there's a reason he made it to HOF as HC
    • Only on the Bucs, average on the Colts
    • No, he was always overrated

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  • Poll closes on 09/18/2019 at 09:14 PM

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Posted (edited)

It really depends what your definition of elite is.

He was a very good HC no doubt. Do I think he belongs in the HOF? Eh. 

To be fair the only head coach of the last 15-20 years that I think of as elite is Belichick.

You can make cases for guys like Reid, Coughlin and maybe even Jim Harbaugh but I can point out obvious holes/flaws in all them.

Reid's teams always come up short in the playoffs. Coughlin won championships but he had his fair share of very middling to medicore teams as well, Harbuagh didn't coach in the league that long.

Edited by Bolts223

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Posted (edited)

Negatives

  • Dungy was 2-4 in the playoffs with the Bucs.
    • Gruden finished the job
  • Dungy was 7-6 in the playoffs with a fantastic roster in Indy
    • Caldwell took the team back to a Super Bowl when Dungy left
  • His career as a head coach only lasted 13 years

 

Positives

  • He had 6 picks as a member of the 1978 SB winning Steelers
  • He was Vikings D-Coordinator for 4 years and they were very good for 3 of those 4 years.
  • He won 10+ games in 10 of 13 years.
    • He won 12+ games in 6 seasons
  • He only had 1 losing season in those 13 years
  • His regular season winning percentage is .668 (13th all-time)
  • He is a very good broadcaster
  • He developed lots of good coaches
  • He mentored a large number of minority coaches at a time when this was not common
    • Tomlin and Lovie Smith both got their own teams to the Super Bowl
  • He did not invent his defense (the 70s Steelers used it) but he did perfect it into the 90s and 2000's
  • Indy, Chicago, and Tampa went to 4 Super Bowls with his defensive scheme (winning 2 (one match was head to head))
  • He is a man who has left his mark on the NFL in many ways

 

He is a Hall of Famer, but I think an argument over when he got in and who he got in before could have merit. 

  • He's not a mediocre Namath who had a big mouth and then Snell and his D backed it up.
  • He's not a joke selection like Tracy McGrady.
    • Vinny Testaverde and Kerry Collins were  comparable football players to McGrady as a basketball player

 

Fair Comparison

Including Dungy in the Hall does mean George Seifert should be in as well.

  • He has 4 rings
    • 2 as D-Coordinator
    • 2 as Head Coach
  • He has a .644 winning percentage in the regular season(17th best) and .667 (10-5) in the playoffs.
  • He won 12+ games 5 times (Walsh did it 3 times)
  • His 10-5 playoff record is almost identical to Walsh's 10-4
    • Those 10 playoff wins tie them for 13th most (11th most at his retirement)
  • His defense was elite in 11 of 13 seasons in SF
  • While the '81 49ers D was great before he got there in '83, it was terrible in '80 and '82
  • Seifert might be the most underrated coach in the NFL
    • When guys like Caldwell, Gruden, or Switzer take over elite teams they are done within a few years
      • Seifert was a cornerstone of SBs 2 and 3 on D and the leader of 4 and 5
        • The 5th was 6 years after Walsh
        • He was also a fumble away from another SB in 1990.
  • Any lame 'Walsh built his teams' shots should factor this:
    •  Manning, Edge, Harrison, Saturday, Tarik Glenn, and Wayne were all Polian/Mora/Moore guys before Dungy arrived in Indy
    • They still ran Mora's offense with Moore actually still running it when Dungy took over.
  • Seifert's 11 years of coaching were better than Dungy's 13 and he was also a better D-Coordinator
  • Guys he mentored won at least 3 Super Bowls (Holmgren and Shanahan)
    • Holmgren was QB coach for Walsh and O-Coordinator for Seifert
Edited by SkippyX

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Posted (edited)

Seifert's 4 SB Defenses gave up 18,16,10 and 9 points

  • The Bengals got a kick return and 9 points on offense
    • Boomer was league MVP (held to a 46.1 rating) and the Bengals were 1/1 on offense that year
  • The Dolphins scored 16 points
    • Marino was league MVP (held to 66.9 rating) and the Dolphins were 1/1 on offense that year
  • The Broncos scored 10 points, the TD came at the end of the 3rd quarter down 41-3
    • Elway was held to a rating of 19.4 and the Dolphins were 8/15 on offense that year
  • The Chargers got a kick return and scored 18 points on offense
    • They scored the last useless TD to pull within 23 at 2:35 left
    • Humphries had a 56.1 rating and the Chargers were ranked 5/11 on offense that year

Here are the points allowed by Seifert's defense in the 9 games that led to his first 3 rings:

  • 1984
    • Giants 10
    • Bears 0
    • Dolphins 16
  • 1988
    • Vikings 9
    • Bears 3
    • Bengals 9 (+7 on a kick return)
  • 1989
    • Vikings 13
    • Rams 3
    • Broncos 10

That's 8.1 points per game allowed on the way to 3 Super Bowls.

The architect of that defense should be a first ballot Hall of Famer

Too bad the people who vote for the Hall of Fame are ignorant.

 

Edit: Seifert was the DBs coach on the 81 team, so he has 5 Super Bowl rings.

  • That 81 D was ranked 2/2 based on their superior pass defense
    • 3rd in pass yards per attempt  / 21st in rush yards per attempt
Edited by SkippyX

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13 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Seifert's 4 SB Defenses gave up 18,16,10 and 9 points

  • The Bengals got a kick return and 9 points on offense
    • Boomer was league MVP (held to a 46.1 rating) and the Bengals were 1/1 on offense that year
  • The Dolphins scored 16 points
    • Marino was league MVP (held to 66.9 rating) and the Dolphins were 1/1 on offense that year
  • The Broncos scored 10 points, the TD came at the end of the 3rd quarter down 41-3
    • Elway was held to a rating of 19.4 and the Dolphins were 8/15 on offense that year
  • The Chargers got a kick return and scored 18 points on offense
    • They scored the last useless TD to pull within 23 at 2:35 left
    • Humphries had a 56.1 rating and the Chargers were ranked 5/11 on offense that year

Here are the points allowed by Seifert's defense in the 9 games that led to his first 3 rings:

  • 1984
    • Giants 10
    • Bears 0
    • Dolphins 16
  • 1988
    • Vikings 9
    • Bears 3
    • Bengals 9 (+7 on a kick return)
  • 1989
    • Vikings 13
    • Rams 3
    • Broncos 10

That's 8.1 points per game allowed on the way to 3 Super Bowls.

The architect of that defense should be a first ballot Hall of Famer

Too bad the people who vote for the Hall of Fame are ignorant.

 

Edit: Seifert was the DBs coach on the 81 team, so he has 5 Super Bowl rings.

  • That 81 D was ranked 2/2 based on their superior pass defense
    • 3rd in pass yards per attempt  / 21st in rush yards per attempt

Damn, impressive resume for Seifert. Appreciate the knowledge. 

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Unfortunately for Seifert his Carolina stint taints his candadacy with many voters kind of like Tom Flores with Seattle and also to some extent Jimmy Johnson with the Dolphins.

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