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FinneasGage

rank the roster: 2019 edition (#15) (complete)

who's the 15th best player on the packers?  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. who's the 15th best player on the packers?

    • Darnell Savage
    • Rashan Gary
    • Jimmy Graham
    • Kyler Fackrell
    • Dean Lowry
    • Elgton Jenkins
      0
    • Jace Sternberger
      0
    • Geronimo Allison
      0
    • Marquez Valdes-Scantling
    • Equanimeous St. Brown
    • Tramon Williams
      0
    • Tony Brown
      0
    • Josh Jackson
    • Lane Taylor
      0
    • Billy Turner
      0
    • Josh Jones
      0
    • Other
      0


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1 minute ago, SSG said:

I've already went round and round about Graham.  I've been argueing against him for better part of the last 18 months.  IMO, his piss poor production in the second half of last year had nothing to do with his hand (he had 2 catches and 27 yards in the 2 combined games before his hand injury).   It's not like he was dropping a bunch of passes.  He's the same guy Seattle had the year prior.  If he's not catching jump balls in the endzone, he's almost useless without a blown coverage.  His inability to get seperation causes damn near every pass to be contested.  

I'm no Fackrell fan boy.  I've got no idea how he got his production last year but he's younger and was more productive than Graham last year.  

 

So your theory is that he immediately fell apart in week 6?

Graham's biggest problem is that we had a QB who isn't throwing him the ball. 

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24 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So your theory is that he immediately fell apart in week 6?

Graham's biggest problem is that we had a QB who isn't throwing him the ball. 

My theory is that he isn't a very good football player anymore.  I think his game has solely revolved around athletism and he's not even a fraction of the athlete that he once was.  That he's the same 9 yard per catch TE who was worthless inbetween the 20's that Seatle couldn't wait to get rid of.  

For sure.  Aaron Rodgers isn't Brett Favre.  He likes his guys to be open and getting open hasn't been on of Graham's strengths over the last couple years.  

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1 minute ago, SSG said:

My theory is that he isn't a very good football player anymore.  I think his game has solely revolved around athletism and he's not even a fraction of the athlete that he once was.  That he's the same 9 yard per catch TE who was worthless inbetween the 20's that Seatle couldn't wait to get rid of.  

For sure.  Aaron Rodgers isn't Brett Favre.  He likes HIS guys to be open and getting open hasn't been on of Graham's strengths over the last couple years.  

Fixed it for you

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3 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Fixed it for you

Maybe and if that's the case and the issue with this offense is the terrible QB then hirin some cancy coach who's been associated with McVay isn't gonna help much. 

Having a hard time blaming Rodgers for Graham's production given his 50 catch 500 yard season he hard prior to coming to Green Bay.  That season kind of hurts the idea that Jimmy Graham is still this elite game changing TE who's being held back by Green Bay's terrible QB who supposedly hasn't thrown the ball to anyone but Adams, Nelson or Cobb over his entire NFL career. 

Seeems like some think said QB is the reaosn why every pass catcher on the Packers isn't an all pro.  

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, SSG said:

Maybe and if that's the case and the issue with this offense is the terrible QB then hirin some cancy coach who's been associated with McVay isn't gonna help much. 

Having a hard time blaming Rodgers for Graham's production given his 50 catch 500 yard season he hard prior to coming to Green Bay.  That season kind of hurts the idea that Jimmy Graham is still this elite game changing TE who's being held back by Green Bay's terrible QB who supposedly hasn't thrown the ball to anyone but Adams, Nelson or Cobb over his entire NFL career. 

Seeems like some think said QB is the reaosn why every pass catcher on the Packers isn't an all pro.  

How many clips do you need me to show of Rodgers looking at a wide open Jimmy Graham and deciding to hold it in the hopes that Adams is going to get open later in the play?

I must've shown a dozen from this year.

Edited by AlexGreen#20

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1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

How many clips do you need me to show of Rodgers looking at a wide open Jimmy Graham and deciding to hold it in the hopes that Adams is going to get open later in the play?

I must've shown a dozen from this year.

I personnally don't care much for clips as they offer very little context in the play.  Just because Graham is open 4, 5 or 6 seconds into a play when the QB is running for his life doesn't mean he was open when the QB went through his progressions.  Richard Rodgers would look open on plays if you gave him enough time to do so.  

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2 minutes ago, SSG said:

I personnally don't care much for clips as they offer very little context in the play.  Just because Graham is open 4, 5 or 6 seconds into a play when the QB is running for his life doesn't mean he was open when the QB went through his progressions.  Richard Rodgers would look open on plays if you gave him enough time to do so.  

Clips offer little context, but you're more comfortable with all the deep and thorough analysis performed by counting stats?

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16 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Come on guys, I know we're down on Graham, but picking a rookie safety over him is a little absurd.

I'd be willing to bet if you polled the scouts of this team that Graham probably sneaks into the top 10.

I think it just feels like Graham is trending downward, but I agree on Savage. There is a decent hit rate of safeties when drafting in the neighborhood of the #21 slot, but they all seem to generally perform at a below-average level or worse in year 1. I’d be happy if he proves me wrong but the hype-train seems to have too much steam.

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17 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Clips offer little context, but you're more comfortable with all the deep and thorough analysis performed by counting stats?

I trust 2 years of stats more than I do a couple clips.  I just have a hard time believing that Aaron Rodgers is purposely trying to lose because he refuses to throw the ball to anyone but Adams.   

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11 minutes ago, SSG said:

I trust 2 years of stats more than I do a couple clips.  I just have a hard time believing that Aaron Rodgers is purposely trying to lose because he refuses to throw the ball to anyone but Adams.   

No one ascribed that intention to him and you know that. But like all the Rodgers zealots, your first move in an argument is always to intentionally misstate the point made by the opposition. 

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4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

No one ascribed that intention to him and you know that. But like all the Rodgers zealots, your first move in an argument is always to intentionally misstate the point made by the opposition. 

I've seen on plenty of occasion where posters have stated that Aaron Rodgers refuses to throw to wide open receivers.  Whether it was Graham or the rookies. Their lack of production has been solely laid at the feet of the QB by many.  If it's not trying to lose then what is it if he's intenionally refusing to throw it to wide open receivers?  

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On 5/13/2019 at 10:38 AM, boratt said:

Can you believe Richard Rodgers has the second most receptions by a Packer TE in a season with 58.

Jimmy Graham still has it in him to be better than **** rod. He was dinged up,  but I think he has one good year left in him. 

how-dare-you-sir-how-dare-you.jpg

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1 hour ago, SSG said:

I've seen on plenty of occasion where posters have stated that Aaron Rodgers refuses to throw to wide open receivers.  Whether it was Graham or the rookies. Their lack of production has been solely laid at the feet of the QB by many.  If it's not trying to lose then what is it if he's intenionally refusing to throw it to wide open receivers?  

Perhaps Aaron has internally rationalized that those decisions are not detrimental. That likely conclusion satisfies both sides here.

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23 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Why? If you have three or four good targets after Adams, you can afford to lose one without much drop off. If all you have is a rookie behind Graham, you're going to struggle if you lose Graham.

He's in such decline that he's going to suck. We are going to need one or more of the 2nd year receivers to step up and take the #2 spot and run with it. 

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