2019 Offseason Trade Rumors & Free Agency Thread

[champ11]

47 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

solid trade for blazers

yeah good move for them. i'd expect a 2nd rounder included to Atlanta but maybe they were happy to take the 700k in savings even tho E Turner is worse 

[Oregon Ducks]

Apparently they did it because they wanted PT for their young wing players. They see Turner as a backup PG.

[Dr LBC]

16 hours ago, kyle21121 said:

Very sad. 

Kawhi literally just won an NBA championship in Toronto. Why wouldn’t he be “seriously considering” staying?

When did being in LA become the be all end all especially on the Clippers? Seriously has being on the clippers really done anything for anyone? I don’t wanna bash the franchise but the clippers have been the biggest joke of a franchise since it’s inception. 

If you are a star player you can be a star player anywhere. Are you old enough to remember Vinsanity? What about Brandsanity ever hear of that? Didn’t think so. 

Dude the only reason the clippers are an option are because he eventually wants to play near home in California and he knows he’s the guy and doesn’t want to go to the Lakers and not be the guy. The clippers make him the guy. 

Trash the Sterling years all you want because we were.  But the current incarnation of the Ballmer/Frank/West Clippers are a stark difference.  Seriously, if you think the Blake and Paul didn't benefit from being in the LA market in terms of the endorsement deal they got, you're kidding yourself to fit your desired narrative.  I watched Elton Brand every year of his LA career, he's not comparable as a player to Vince Carter - it's pretty ridiculous to suggest it.  He was also stuck on a team that never made the playoffs in the same market as Shaq and Kobe for the majority of that time.  Again, not comparable to the current Clippers (we were the most injured team per minutes missed by Opening Day starters on the season last year and still made the playoffs, even stealing a couple of games off the defending champions).

Here's the part that you seem to keep butting your head against, either because you don't want to grasp it or you can't seem to, it's not about just establishing your brand (which yes, any star player can do anywhere), it's about maximizing your brand, which you're not going to do in small and mid-markets.

[RuskieTitan]

43 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

Where the people at who told me I was crazy for saying the Warriors training staff effed up and misled KD?

Id like an apology peasants 

What happened? Link?

[StLunatic88]

17 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, I'm not going to say they didn't have some bad moves, but I'm not going to try and discredit the good moves and only focus on the bad moves.  And can we please stop talking Ivica Zubac as a legitimate player?  He's a nice backup big, but nothing more.  he averaged less than 10 MPG in the playoffs for the Clippers.  Calling him an asset is generous at best.  And let's stop pretending like Brook Lopez was going to change the Lakers' fortune this past season.

No, youve been ignoring those bad moves an trying to say his good ones are some miracle moves that no one else could have done. At this point he has out pitched the Knicks and James Dolan for LeBron, and mostly bid against himself for Anthony Davis. Yes he has two of the best players in the league, but how hard was that realistically?

The fact that you cant even admit Zubac is a legitimate asset tht he just GAVE AWAY for Mike Muscalla? This is the HEIGHT of Homerism. He'd be pretty nice right about now to play the 5 so AD doesnt have to. Or even better (arguably) would have been an easy asset to attach to the final year of Deng's contract so someone would take him.

And that is a terrible argument about Lopez. Who cares if he would have changed the fortune last year? They spent nearly $30m on KCP+Rondo+Lance+Beasley+Jevale. Youre telling me Brook wouldnt have been a better use of dollars? Ive conceeded to split that blame with Magic, but its still really bad. And as good as he was last year, they could have flipped him for another asset when they knew it was time to shut it dowm.

26 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

As for the Deng move, I'd agree it was short-sighted but I also think it had more to do than cap ramifications.  Luol Deng was rather vocal about wanting to move on from the Lakers, and I think the Lakers did him a favor by stretching him.

But you posited that RP has been planning for another Max Cap guy other thanAD for this offseason. This move flies directly in the face of that. If it truely was all about 2019, then they would have told Deng too bad, suck it up, were moving you in the offseason and you can get bought out then. It is a business after all, and they were paying quite handsomely

28 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

This had NOTHING to do with Pelinka not knowing how the timing would affect the Lakers ability to create max cap space for a FA.

Ive already stated many times I am on this side. So now you are just arguing for the heck of it. It still doesnt mean he didnt get fleeced in this deal, because he absolutely did.

Outside of a Portland or Denver swoop in, they were the only real offer that Griffin had. The Knicks package was pretty unappealing, and the Celtics were never going to give a serious offer with Kyrie running out the back door. So if he sticks to his guns, Give them #4+Ingram+Ball and probably throws in the 2022 pick (or the Top 8 2021 that turns into it) then he still has Hart for the rotation and a couple more useful 1st rounders to grab some other players. 

 

The Lakers are in an amazing spot in spite of all of this, they dont really need you to defend them. but RP has alot of hardwork to do in order to make this roster for for this year and next (no matter if they go with another Max or not)

[kyle21121]

23 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Trash the Sterling years all you want because we were.  But the current incarnation of the Ballmer/Frank/West Clippers are a stark difference.  Seriously, if you think the Blake and Paul didn't benefit from being in the LA market in terms of the endorsement deal they got, you're kidding yourself to fit your desired narrative.  I watched Elton Brand every year of his LA career, he's not comparable as a player to Vince Carter - it's pretty ridiculous to suggest it.  He was also stuck on a team that never made the playoffs in the same market as Shaq and Kobe for the majority of that time.  Again, not comparable to the current Clippers (we were the most injured team per minutes missed by Opening Day starters on the season last year and still made the playoffs, even stealing a couple of games off the defending champions).

Here's the part that you seem to keep butting your head against, either because you don't want to grasp it or you can't seem to, it's not about just establishing your brand (which yes, any star player can do anywhere), it's about maximizing your brand, which you're not going to do in small and mid-markets.

I most definitely embellished and fit certain angles and left a few things out and made unfair comps. Everyone else does it to fit their own narrative. Obviously comparing a player like Elton Brand to VC was insane and assine. 

Obviously I will walk some of that back as I’ve been on edge with this Kawhi thing the past well 350 or so days. Steve Ballmer has been a great owner for the most part and in no way does this current group have any of the misgivings of the previous group. 

I don’t hate the clippers or mean to hate on them too much but they are still the little brother and I’m not sure they get the full effect of being in the L.A. market. Right now Kawhi has all of Canada and that’s not nothing. 

Kawhi can make the most money grow his brand amoungst a new audience and live in relative obscurity during the season and considering they just won the damn title I think that’s pretty good. I think Toronto offers what L.A. Clippers offer more or less except the only things it can’t offer is:

Year round nice weather and close proximity to home. 

All things considered L.A. doesn’t blow Toronto out of the water and isn’t an undeniably better (maybe a bit better in some regards) place to be than Toronto for a basketball player. Seriously he just won a title I think people are unwilling to actually acknowledge this or they think yeah so what because this is actually pretty huge. 

How is Toronto a small to mid level market btw?

Seriously aside from wanting to go home why are you leaving? This team could absolutely win it again next year and he’s a damn god right now. 

All of Canada will buy whatever crap he wants to sell.

Also Toronto has The best GM in all of basketball. As great as this new clippers regime is they don’t compare. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by kyle21121

[Dr LBC]

1 minute ago, kyle21121 said:

How is Toronto a small to mid level market btw?

Compared to Los Angeles, it's mid-market.  Compared to the league as a whole it's a larger market.  I'm not saying the Clippers blow the Raptors out of the water.  Don't put words in my mouth and read what I actually write in my posts.

In terms of maximizing the market for his brand and moving into the East Asian markets (which have jack squat to do with being an "international city" or even a high Asian population), the Toronto market isn't comparable to the Los Angeles market.  It's closer than, say, Denver is, but the Denver market isn't the level of market with specifically Asian ties and reach that LA or San Francisco are.

There's a difference between "brand" and "legacy."  For purposes of brand, Canada's 34 million people (and let's be real here, he'll never never be the level of star in Canada of the top Canadian hockey players, so saying "all of Canada" is unnecessarily hyperbolic) fall short of the potential of the 13.1 million in LA metro plus the increased opportunity of getting a share of the nearly 1.4 billion in antChinese marketshare.

It's more than just nice weather and playing closer to home, that's a lazy as hell argument of the stereotypical anti-LA crap.  If you don't grasp the business end of it, just own it and admit it.  If the guy who already has two rings cares more about his brand (i.e. his business opportunities for the remainder of his career and beyond) going to LA is the clear choice.  If he cares more about his legacy (i.e. his basketball career, an easier path to winning at least another ring more immediately) he'll return to Toronto.  He's going to end up in California at some point (until I see the Dubs actually max Klay and Durant, I refuse to rule out that Kawhi going to Golden State in 2021 is off the table), it's just a matter of whether he pulls the trigger now or in another couple years.  You've even already conceded that.

[dante9876]

1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said:

Where the people at who told me I was crazy for saying the Warriors training staff effed up and misled KD?

Id like an apology peasants 

Where is this coming from, is there new information. 

[dante9876]

Why cousins going at blake griifin on twitter???. What did blake say

[J-ALL-DAY]

26 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

Why cousins going at blake griifin on twitter???. What did blake say

Looks like it is some promotion they are doing. Griffin went back at him and even at Rose/Pierce.

I know...I was disappointed it wasn't a real beef either lol.

[seminoles1]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

If LeBron James won another championship in Cleveland, would he have signed with the Lakers?  I'm not sure, but it would have put the idea of remaining in Cleveland in LeBron's head IMO.  The Lakers took that gamble, and it's amazing that people want to discredit that move.

Being executed poorly?  That's because you're buying into the hype machine that ESPN is shoving down your throat.  We went from the Lakers would be unable to create max cap space unless they pushed the Anthony Davis trade back to the end of July to the Lakers "scrambling" to make moves to create that cap space just shows you how much ESPN (Woj in particular) doesn't know.  If you followed Woj with regards to the Lakers, it's abundantly clear that he has no connection to the Lakers' FO and doesn't get anything from them.  Year after year, which team can Woj not announce their pick ahead of time?  The Lakers.  Even when the whole AD trade saga was going down, it was clear that Shams was the one who was getting the cliff notes from the Lakers.

His FA signings?  With the exception of Michael Beasley, none of them were poor signings.  Rajon Rondo and JaVale McGee were good veterans to have on the roster.  Tyson Chandler was a solid midseason pickup.  Lance Stephenson wasn't great, but he wasn't a liability either.  Everyone knew they needed shooters, but the Lakers prioritized cap flexibility over anything else.

You say that as if Jordan Clarkson and LNJ were possibly the difference between Cleveland winning and losing a title, which is beyond laughable.

I'm not buying into ESPN hype, I'm buying into the Lakers giving all that up yet not securing the date of the trade. That should have been non-negotiable from LA's perspective, not "Well since we know you want to trade #4, we'll just hope the 3rd team wants to wait". GMing 101 and he failed to secure that date.

All of them were poor besides McGee. Every single one.

Edited June 24, 2019 by seminoles1

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

That would mean they'd have struck out on EVERY FA signing, which isn't going to happen.

It has happened time and time again. 

[kyle21121]

35 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Compared to Los Angeles, it's mid-market.  Compared to the league as a whole it's a larger market.  I'm not saying the Clippers blow the Raptors out of the water.  Don't put words in my mouth and read what I actually write in my posts.

In terms of maximizing the market for his brand and moving into the East Asian markets (which have jack squat to do with being an "international city" or even a high Asian population), the Toronto market isn't comparable to the Los Angeles market.  It's closer than, say, Denver is, but the Denver market isn't the level of market with specifically Asian ties and reach that LA or San Francisco are.

There's a difference between "brand" and "legacy."  For purposes of brand, Canada's 34 million people (and let's be real here, he'll never never be the level of star in Canada of the top Canadian hockey players, so saying "all of Canada" is unnecessarily hyperbolic) fall short of the potential of the 13.1 million in LA metro plus the increased opportunity of getting a share of the nearly 1.4 billion in antChinese marketshare.

It's more than just nice weather and playing closer to home, that's a lazy as hell argument of the stereotypical anti-LA crap.  If you don't grasp the business end of it, just own it and admit it.  If the guy who already has two rings cares more about his brand (i.e. his business opportunities for the remainder of his career and beyond) going to LA is the clear choice.  If he cares more about his legacy (i.e. his basketball career, an easier path to winning at least another ring more immediately) he'll return to Toronto.  He's going to end up in California at some point (until I see the Dubs actually max Klay and Durant, I refuse to rule out that Kawhi going to Golden State in 2021 is off the table), it's just a matter of whether he pulls the trigger now or in another couple years.  You've even already conceded that.

Toronto has a huge Chinese population. Toronto is ridiculously multicultural. It has a further reach than you may be giving credit. 

Ill get this out of the way yes L.A. is a bigger market than Toronto and all of Canada in terms of basketball fans. Basketball is growing all over the country it was an absolute non factor when I began watching the nba 18 or so years ago. Basketball will never be as big as hockey in Canada that is also true.

It may be a lazy anti LA argument but I think it’s a factor for him. Yea I get the brand thing etc etc I’m saying he wants to go home and he doesn’t seem to be found of cold weather. This is a Kawhi centric argument I’m not trying to generalize or put L.A. down. 

If Kawhi really does care more about brand more so then winning right now then sure he can go to LA. I’ve never disputed LA being a bigger market or potential for maximizing his brand I think you are short selling Toronto a bit. My understanding is he wants to win first and foremost and it’s already been proven he can win here. 

Look I did say Kawhi will eventually go to California. That’s true and I 100% believe that. I think the original point is that it was a joke that Kawhi should consider staying and that he’s as good as gone whole thing that I was trying to dispel. Is it better for the nba as a whole to have their best player not play in Canada? Yes. Does it cripple the league if he does stay in Canada? No. VC was the biggest thing to ever happen to the raptors and brought them national recognition and Kawhi is a better player than peak VC I hate VC now but I can’t diminish what he was for a 4-5 year period in Toronto and what he did for basketball in Canada. Kawhi is currently doing what VC did for a new generation. 

[NYRaider]

11 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

You say that as if Jordan Clarkson and LNJ were possibly the difference between Cleveland winning and losing a title, which is beyond laughable.

I'm not buying into ESPN hype, I'm buying into the Lakers giving all that up yet not securing the date of the trade. That should have been non-negotiable from LA's perspective, not "Well since we know you want to trade #4, we'll just hope the 3rd team wants to wait". GMing 101 and he failed to secure that date.

All of them were poor besides McGee. Every single one.

Listening to CWood you'd think that Jeanie and Rob P have built multiple powerhouse dynasty's and have 15 executive of the year awards under the belt. 

[FinSting]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Listening to CWood you'd think that Jeanie and Rob P have built multiple powerhouse dynasty's and have 15 executive of the year awards under the belt. 

To be fair, they weren't fined $50,000 today...oh hi, Knicks.