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Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

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18 hours ago, Cadmus said:

This is such a bad take. 

The Packers won't cut Moore in his second season. You don't cut players with that level ability on a rookie contract. 

Why is it a bad take?  I prefaced the comment by saying "If he gets beat out by Jake Kumerow"?  Do we generally carry late round picks who aren't able to make the active roster for the length of their rookie deals?  At least with Jeff Janis and Trevor Davis we got guys who contributed on ST.  Moore is a DeAngelo Yancy caliber of talent.  Obviously, if he's getting handily beaten out in competition by career practice squad guys then he probably doesn't have even a fraction of the ability that you view him to have.  

Where does he fit in our current WR group if we've got 5 young guys in front of him that are more talented?  Are we cutting Davis who's every bit the WR and an entirely different tier of ST player? 

 

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16 hours ago, Cadmus said:

Moore ain't David Clowney. 

2 for the price of 1 on bad takes here. 

Did everyone forget how much praise Moore was receiving early last year? 

He has the highest ceiling of any of the 2nd year WRs. No clue if he'll ever get close to that ceiling, but if he fails it certainly won't be for lack of ability. 

How exactly do you know?  It's an opinion that is pretty obviously not based on one single snap of NFL football.  This ability you speak of contributed 2 catches for 15 yards on a WR core that struggled and badly needed bodies.  Moore was passed on the depth chart by every single WR we rostered last season. 

What did you see from Moore last year that would suggest that his ceiling is higher than either MVS or ESB?  How if he fails, will it not be because of a lack of ability?  You really believe that every single athletic WR who enters the NFL has the ability to play in the league?  

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I don't know why either take is a bad take on Moore.  There was nothing there in his rookie year.  He was healthy all year, and yet he got surpassed by two undrafted receivers with playing time and two late round receivers.  He had 2 catches for 15 yards. 

Donald Driver had 3 catches his rookie year.
Laquon Treadwell had 1 catch his rookie year. 

Moore could be something, he could be nothing.  There are plenty of talented players who do nothing after a nothing season, plenty who do a heck of a lot after a nothing season.

There really is no argument that's right on Moore.  He could suck, he could be good.  He could be cut, he could make the roster. 

We have had plenty of 4th-7th round second year players who did not make the team their second year. 

Vince Biegel was cut after one season and he was also a 4th round pick. 

I don't see why people are having this debate when it's literally a tossup at this point what will happen with Moore. 

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Clowney and Moore are just such different athletes it's comparing apples to oranges. Clowney was a below average sized player with elite speed and below average COD while Moore is an above average sized player with below average speed and elite COD. They couldn't be more different.

The only things comparable would be their draft range, position, and team.

Clowney is a much better comparison for Trevor Davis.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

Clowney and Moore are just such different athletes it's comparing apples to oranges. Clowney was a below average sized player with elite speed and below average COD while Moore is an above average sized player with below average speed and elite COD. They couldn't be more different.

The only things comparable would be their draft range, position, and team.

Clowney is a much better comparison for Trevor Davis.

Not sure that is true. He screwed up at the combine and said as much. He ran 4.48 at his pro day and that was much more indicative of the speed he plays. That is not below average. 

The one thing they both have in common is the inability to catch the football. At least Moore did last year. If Moore corrects that, he might be something. 

Edited by Golfman

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5 minutes ago, Golfman said:

Not sure that is true. He screwed up at the combine and said as much. He ran 4.48 at his pro day and that was much more indicative of the speed he plays. That is not below average. 

The one thing they both have in common is the inability to catch the football. At least Moore did last year. If Moore corrects that, he might be something. 

I'd agree. Used the combine number because if I didn't someone would have said I cherrypicked.

Basically Moore was the type of athlete that comes along once every 5-10 drafts while Clowney was the type of athlete that there are 5-10 of every draft. Neither of those things is indicative of future success but the former is much more likely to get more leeway than the latter.

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Posted (edited)

There's two big things with Moore at this stage of his development.

1) Everyone knew he needed a ton of work.  In college he played exclusively on the left and exclusively as the X.  He primarily ran three routes: slant, go, hitch.  That's a looooooong way from being ready to line up on the left or right, as the slot, X or Z, and run a complete route tree.  That's on top of all the other adjustments college receivers face going to the pros, like the speed of the game, the increase in technique and knowledge of the corners, and of course your QB throwing the ball about twice as fast and with actual anticipation.  The fact that he wasn't ready to play year 1 was absolutely expected, and shouldn't have surprised anyone.

2) He actually did earn himself some playing time last year.  He put some decent film out there as a punt gunner; he wins easily at the line and has the size and strength to run through jams. He was getting double teamed fairly frequently because he was able to win 1v1 just on physical talent. Still needs a lot of work there too, but the point is this idea that he's a hapless bum who isn't an NFL player isn't true; he's just not a very good receiver yet.  Yes, he was a long way from being a starter, much less a star the last time we saw him, but the physical gifts are there, and he's finding uses for them.

As far as talent goes, Moore has exceptionally rare change of direction skills for a big receiver; his 6.56 cone is the 3rd best mark by a 6'3" or taller receiver dating back to 2000 (out of 198 qualifying receivers).  His 4.04 shuttle is 6th.  He put up back to back 1000 yard seasons at Mizzou (along with 18 TDs those years).

This isn't a statement that he's secretly a superstar in waiting and he's not my pick for breakout player, but there's a lot of reasons to be excited about him in 2019 if he's yours.

Edited by MrBobGray

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16 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

I mean they're not even remote

 

Yeah, Clowney wasn't half the athlete Moore is and didn't produce anywhere close to the same level in college. Moore had more TDs in each of his last two seasons than Clowney had in his college career, to go with nearly twice the receiving yards for their careers. 

You can count the number of 6'3" receivers in the league with Moore's movement ability on one hand. 

Half the athlete?  Clowney was more athletic in 2 of the 3 events he was measured in.  In 2007 he'd have had the 3rd fasted 40,  the highest vertical jump and the 5th fastest 20 yard SS.

Who cares about college production a year into their career?  Of course Moore was more productive.  He played in an air raid system with drew Lock.  Clowney played in an option offense that ran the ball 875 more times than they threw it while at VT.  

If Jeff Janis has taught us anything it's that we should stop being infatuated with gym short work outs once they are a season into their NFL career.  Janis was bigger, more athletic and more versitile yet he never made it in the league.  Athletism by it self means nothing.  If Moore is still getting handily beaten by practice squad caliber WRs after his second TC/ preseason then he's not worth having on the roster.  We're too deep with young WRs to carry a non contributer at the bottom of the roster in hopes that the switch turns on in year 3 or year 4.  

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28 minutes ago, SSG said:

Moore is still getting handily beaten by practice squad caliber WRs after his second TC/ preseason then he's not worth having on the roster.  We're too deep with young WRs to carry a non contributer at the bottom of the roster in hopes that the switch turns on in year 3 or year 4.  

 

Your player hating is too funny.

When you proclaimed Davante Adams a "mega bust" in his 2nd season, you lost any credibility to hate on WRs.

Also, just wondering, what is a contributer?

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27 minutes ago, Donzo said:

Also, just wondering, what is a contributer?

I thought he meant non contributor, but it is possible he meant non contrez boucher, which might mean, though my French is rusty, “ not an impersonation of a butcher.”

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One Mitchell Trubisky.  (Read that with Chris Farley doing Chicago accent). 

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Also Roquan Smith. 

Return of Allen Robinson. 

James Daniels.  

Return of Ha Ha Clinton Dix.

Bilal Nichols.

Ohhh you meant Packers players.  I’ll leave now and enjoy the hate replies.

Did anyone say Rashon Gary btw?  Just curious.

 

 

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1 hour ago, SSG said:

Half the athlete?  Clowney was more athletic in 2 of the 3 events he was measured in.  In 2007 he'd have had the 3rd fasted 40,  the highest vertical jump and the 5th fastest 20 yard SS.

Who cares about college production a year into their career?  Of course Moore was more productive.  He played in an air raid system with drew Lock.  Clowney played in an option offense that ran the ball 875 more times than they threw it while at VT.  

If Jeff Janis has taught us anything it's that we should stop being infatuated with gym short work outs once they are a season into their NFL career.  Janis was bigger, more athletic and more versitile yet he never made it in the league.  Athletism by it self means nothing.  If Moore is still getting handily beaten by practice squad caliber WRs after his second TC/ preseason then he's not worth having on the roster.  We're too deep with young WRs to carry a non contributer at the bottom of the roster in hopes that the switch turns on in year 3 or year 4.  

The bolded can't be right. Everything I can find has him at 32 1/2". That's super mediocre.

Janis is a much better comparison for Moore.

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