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Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

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Seems to me that Moore needs to show that he can consistently catch the ball.

If he can't do that, then the athletic ability will get him no where.

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5 hours ago, wgbeethree said:

The bolded can't be right. Everything I can find has him at 32 1/2". That's super mediocre.

Janis is a much better comparison for Moore.

Wikipedia has him at 40.5 for some reason.  Every other source I can find agrees at 32.5.

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6 hours ago, SSG said:

Half the athlete?  Clowney was more athletic in 2 of the 3 events he was measured in.  In 2007 he'd have had the 3rd fasted 40,  the highest vertical jump and the 5th fastest 20 yard SS.

Who cares about college production a year into their career?  Of course Moore was more productive.  He played in an air raid system with drew Lock.  Clowney played in an option offense that ran the ball 875 more times than they threw it while at VT.  

If Jeff Janis has taught us anything it's that we should stop being infatuated with gym short work outs once they are a season into their NFL career.  Janis was bigger, more athletic and more versitile yet he never made it in the league.  Athletism by it self means nothing.  If Moore is still getting handily beaten by practice squad caliber WRs after his second TC/ preseason then he's not worth having on the roster.  We're too deep with young WRs to carry a non contributer at the bottom of the roster in hopes that the switch turns on in year 3 or year 4.  

Clowney was 6', 188 lbs at the combine.  Moore was 6'3", 208 pounds.  As noted, Clowney's vertical jump was not 40.5; every reputable source has him at 32.5.  Having said that, even at 40.5, a 6' 188 lb receiver with those numbers is definitely not more athletic because he barely edged out a guy 3" taller and 20 lbs heavier.

Moore needed development.  I noticed you were careful to avoid touching that paragraph at all; I'm curious as to why that is.  

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Posted (edited)

It's early still, but in a Michael Cohen piece in the Athletic new coach Alvis Whitted didn't even mention J'Mon Moore.  He had good things to say about Trevor Davis, and Jake Kumerow .. not a single mention of J'Mon.  Moore is on the third pairing with Davis.  

Edited by {Family Ghost}

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14 hours ago, wgbeethree said:

The bolded can't be right. Everything I can find has him at 32 1/2". That's super mediocre.

Janis is a much better comparison for Moore.

That's what was listed on his wiki page.  I assumed the vertical was correct like the other 2 measureables.

The original point wasn't to compare players.  It IMO was pointing out that athletic players that aren't working out aren't guaranteed roster spots.  

 

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Moore was drafted because he's a master outside the hashes playing the sideline quite well, he wins 1-on-1's more often than not, and he has plus instincts. That's why he was drafted. The problem is that he overly relies on these things while struggling with the route tree and hasn't adjusted well to the pro game. Methinks PS time would be good for him. If he has a good preseason, he may be good trade bait.

 

 

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10 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

Clowney was 6', 188 lbs at the combine.  Moore was 6'3", 208 pounds.  As noted, Clowney's vertical jump was not 40.5; every reputable source has him at 32.5.  Having said that, even at 40.5, a 6' 188 lb receiver with those numbers is definitely not more athletic because he barely edged out a guy 3" taller and 20 lbs heavier.

Moore needed development.  I noticed you were careful to avoid touching that paragraph at all; I'm curious as to why that is.  

I'm unsure what you are talking about.  I avoided nothing in your post.  I addressed the comment that Moore is twice the athlete and the attempt to compare their college production while failing to acknowledge the substantial difference in college offenses.  You didn't mention development in the post I quoted. 

 I didn't say Clowney was overall more athletric.  I assumed his vertical was correct and there is simply no comparing their speed.  IMO Moore needed the firendly confines of his pro day to even look draftable after a terrible efffort on his 40.  I personally have issues buying his excuse for his combine 40.  Showed some immaturity IMO needing to make an excuse instead of holding himself accountable for a bad run or a bad effort.  He lined up in exactly the same spot as MVS and he declined to run it a second time.  Had there been an error in the run it seems like he'd have wanted it corrected immediately given the importance of the combine.  

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9 minutes ago, SSG said:

I'm unsure what you are talking about.  I avoided nothing in your post.  I addressed the comment that Moore is twice the athlete and the attempt to compare their college production while failing to acknowledge the substantial difference in college offenses.  You didn't mention development in the post I quoted. 

 I didn't say Clowney was overall more athletric.  I assumed his vertical was correct and there is simply no comparing their speed.  IMO Moore needed the firendly confines of his pro day to even look draftable after a terrible efffort on his 40.  I personally have issues buying his excuse for his combine 40.  Showed some immaturity IMO needing to make an excuse instead of holding himself accountable for a bad run or a bad effort.  He lined up in exactly the same spot as MVS and he declined to run it a second time.  Had there been an error in the run it seems like he'd have wanted it corrected immediately given the importance of the combine.  

Holy hyperbole Batman.

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Just now, deathstar said:

Holy hyperbole Batman.

anigif_enhanced-buzz-12277-1403381692-6.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, deathstar said:

Holy hyperbole Batman.

How so?  Moore was one of the 6 slowest WRs at his combine.  Only 2 guys who were slower were drafted.  Once in the mid 7th and the other being one of the last 4 picks in the draft.  It's pretty routine for players to time substantially faster at their pro days.  For instance, Devin Funchess.  He ran a 4.70 at the combine.  At his UM pro day he was timed in the 4.5's.  Looking at Funchess today, he plays a lot more like a 4.70 WR than a 4.5 guy.  

Hard telling how fast Moore is given that he wasn't talented enough to get on the field last year.  Jake Kumerow passed him on the depth chart like he was still in high school.  Before we make Jake Kumerow into a stud, he was a camp body who needed 4 years of practice squad football before he made a roster and made his first catch.  

 

 

Edited by SSG

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22 hours ago, wgbeethree said:

I'd agree. Used the combine number because if I didn't someone would have said I cherrypicked.

Basically Moore was the type of athlete that comes along once every 5-10 drafts while Clowney was the type of athlete that there are 5-10 of every draft. Neither of those things is indicative of future success but the former is much more likely to get more leeway than the latter.

That's a stretch IMO.  Moore wasn't even the most athletic WR in his own draft.  Dylan Cantrell was taller, 20 lbs bigger, faster, more explosive and quicker (or as quick) in the movement drills.  He bested or equaled Moore in every single event but the bench press.  If he's given the same benifit of the doubt about his combine 40 with his pro day 40 used insted he'd be an entirely differant caliber of athlete given the massive differance in size, pro day 40 times and broad jump.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SSG said:

How so?  Moore was one of the 6 slowest WRs at his combine.  Only 2 guys who were slower were drafted.  Once in the mid 7th and the other being one of the last 4 picks in the draft.  It's pretty routine for players to time substantially faster at their pro days.  For instance, Devin Funchess.  He ran a 4.70 at the combine.  At his UM pro day he was timed in the 4.5's.  Looking at Funchess today, he plays a lot more like a 4.70 WR than a 4.5 guy.  

Hard telling how fast Moore is given that he wasn't talented enough to get on the field last year.  Jake Kumerow passed him on the depth chart like he was still in high school.  Before we make Jake Kumerow into a stud, he was a camp body who needed 4 years of practice squad football before he made a roster and made his first catch.  

 

 

This really isn't worth my time, but Kumerow was a threat for a roster spot from the moment we signed him and that was stated on here. 

The Bengals had one of the deepest WR corps in the NFL during the time he spent with them. 

Edited by Cadmus

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44 minutes ago, SSG said:

That's a stretch IMO.  Moore wasn't even the most athletic WR in his own draft.  Dylan Cantrell was taller, 20 lbs bigger, faster, more explosive and quicker (or as quick) in the movement drills.  He bested or equaled Moore in every single event but the bench press.  If he's given the same benifit of the doubt about his combine 40 with his pro day 40 used insted he'd be an entirely differant caliber of athlete given the massive differance in size, pro day 40 times and broad jump.  

Dylan Cantrell is literally the only example of a player in the last ten years who matched or bettered Moore in size, vert, SS, AND 3 cone. Cantrell is an absolute physical freak and I'd defend his potential based on that the exact same way I'm defending Moore. They're the 2 guys in the last ten years who combine that sort of size, quickness, and leaping ability. Not much of a stretch at all. 9 out of the last 10 years there hasn't been a WR that matches or exceed or Moore Athletic strengths. That very literally makes his physical profile one that is available once every 5 or 10 years depending on how you look at it. Again that means very little about their chances at future success but when you are a very rare type of athlete you're definitely  more likely to get a longer leash.

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1 hour ago, SSG said:

How so?  Moore was one of the 6 slowest WRs at his combine.  Only 2 guys who were slower were drafted.  Once in the mid 7th and the other being one of the last 4 picks in the draft.  It's pretty routine for players to time substantially faster at their pro days.  For instance, Devin Funchess.  He ran a 4.70 at the combine.  At his UM pro day he was timed in the 4.5's.  Looking at Funchess today, he plays a lot more like a 4.70 WR than a 4.5 guy.  

 

Nothing about that 40 time, or what you wrote here, means he was undraftable.

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17 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Seems to me that Moore needs to show that he can consistently catch the ball.

If he can't do that, then the athletic ability will get him no where.

that's another issue he has.

 

Anyone remember Ramses Barden? I read this post and immediately think Ramses Barden...

 

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